How in the world are BF110G-4 rear machine guns aimed??

[Mycapt65]

How in the  world are these BF110G-4 rear machine guns aimed?? I'm into shooting sports and I can only line up one set of sights on a target at a time. I know German engineering talent is significant but for the life of me I can't figure out how two sets of sights spread further apart than your eyes could ever work with paired guns and a single gunner. If you know please explain.

 

Thanks 

Ron 

[Super Aereo]

You only use one set, the other is redundant, AFAIK. My guess is that when shooting to one side, this arrangement might make aiming easier.

Edited April 28 by Super Aereo

[Richard502]

Two parallel sights will be useful in a cramped space/cockpit. It should be possible to swivel and aim the guns farther to the left while using the left sight. (head will the canopy sooner if using the right, or a central, sight.)

[Mycapt65]

1 minute ago, Richard502 said:

Two parallel sights will be useful in a cramped space/cockpit. It should be possible to swivel and aim the guns farther to the left while using the left sight. (head will the canopy sooner if using the right, or a central, sight.)

Bingo! That makes perfect sense. Thank you. I never thought of that.

 

Thank you 

Ron 

[stever219]

 The guns are on a twin mounting and move together:  The gunner has the opportunity to use either sight, depending on whether he is left-eyed or right-eyed.

The Germans may well have set the guns for the lines of fire to converge at a set dstance, perhaps 200 metres or 100.  The pilots of RAF Spitfires and Hurricanes used a single sight to aim up to eight machine guns, some of which in the former were about 9 feet out from the aircraft longitudinal centre line and subject to wing flexing yet they were harmonised to a very small aiming point at around 200 yards to get the greatest possible mass of lead in the same place at the same time.

[Mycapt65]

28 minutes ago, stever219 said:

 The guns are on a twin mounting and move together:  The gunner has the opportunity to use either sight, depending on whether he is left-eyed or right-eyed.

The Germans may well have set the guns for the lines of fire to converge at a set dstance, perhaps 200 metres or 100.  The pilots of RAF Spitfires and Hurricanes used a single sight to aim up to eight machine guns, some of which in the former were about 9 feet out from the aircraft longitudinal centre line and subject to wing flexing yet they were harmonised to a very small aiming point at around 200 yards to get the greatest possible mass of lead in the same place at the same time.

Thanks. The right/left eye dominance makes some sense. I think @Richard502 hit the nail on the head with the cramped space issue. Not that it matters, I'm not sure if they'd bother to converge the lines of fire on guns placed only inches apart.  It does make perfect sense on multiple wing machine guns set 20 feet apart. 

 

 All I know is I certainly wouldn't want to sit between two 20mm cannons when they fired. Kind of like I have no idea how ball turret gunners enclosed themselves in a little ball and sat between two 50s. The noise on both set ups must have been deafening with the best ear protection.

 

Be well 

Ron 

Edited April 28 by Mycapt65

[Werdna]

Was there an interrupter mechanism fitted, to stop the tailplanes being shredded?  If not, I can see problems with sighting through one gun, while forgetting you have another one next to it...

[pigsty]

On 4/28/2025 at 3:03 PM, Mycapt65 said:

All I know is I certainly wouldn't want to sit between two 20mm cannons when they fired.

That fitting is an MG81Z, which is two 7.92mm guns - and they're so short that the user actually sat behind the breeches.  Still plenty loud, though in an aircraft with zero sound insulation it might have been just the icing on the deafness cake.

Quote

Was there an interrupter mechanism fitted, to stop the tailplanes being shredded?

Yes, although it was more circuit breakers than WW1-style interrupters.

[FatFlyHalf]

Point gun - pull trigger - hope !

Simple really, but maybe not effective.

[Geoffry M]

In a fast-moving environment of two planes flying at high speeds and different altitudes, directions it would seem easier to start shooting in the general direction of the opponent and shift the aim using the tracers to guide you to the target assuming they were loaded with tracers.  

[Graham Boak]

Better still to have sights which help you take out at least some of the variables.   Random pointing in the general direction is a guaranteed miss.  Correcting afterwards may be too late.

[AdrianH]

Not entirely serious... 😄

 

If the enemy aircraft is moving to your left, which is to your aircraft's right because you're facing backwards, then you use your right-hand sight so that your guns lead the target.  If the enemy is moving to your right then you use your left-hand sight.  If he's coming straight at you then you just aim so that he's somewhere between the two sights.  That's assuming you can see your black gunsights against the sky because you're sitting in a night-fighter and it's dark out there.

 

As for the noise, take a look at what else is sticking out of the canopy next to the gunner.  The sound of a pair of 7.9mm machineguns is not going to bother a gunner who is used to listening to loud Musik.

[Jochen Barett]

If the enemy aircraft is moving to your left, which is to your aircraft's right because you're facing backwards, then you use your right-hand sight so that you bang your head's right hand side on the canopy. 

If the enemy is moving to your right then you use your left-hand sight so you can bang the left hand side of your head. 

(after you did that, you'll do it the other way around and not bump your head, hopefully)

 

When mounted in the fuselage's side:

https://bramit.ru/laptops/496-aviatsionnyj-pelemet-mg-81-germanija-mg81-.html

in a more confined arraangement:

https://www.wehrmacht-history.com/luftwaffe/armaments/7-92-mm-mg-81z.html

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

On 4/29/2025 at 10:19 AM, Jochen Barett said:

When mounted in the fuselage's side:

https://bramit.ru/laptops/496-aviatsionnyj-pelemet-mg-81-germanija-mg81-.html

What aircraft is this on ? That field of vision is pretty limited ? 

[Jochen Barett]

9 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

What aircraft is this on ? That field of vision is pretty limited ? 

My shot from the hip: He 111

 

Google will come up with this site supporting my claim: https://www.luftarchiv.de/index.htm?/bordgerate/waffen.htm

"MG 81Z He 111" https://www.luftarchiv.de/bordgerate/mg81_he11a.jpg