FAA Hellcat Mk II - Many Questions!!!

[B0BY_1234567]

Hello everyone!!! I've had to take a hiatus from scale modelling for a bit due to university but I've finished my exams today and I'm super excited to begin working on my next project - A 1/72 Hellcat Mk II in BPF colours! I will be using the Hobbyboss 1/72 F6F-5 as my base, but I'll be modifying a lot - already I've begun reshaping the canopy (which sits a bit too tall for my liking and also has a poor front windscreen), sanding down incorrect cowling detail (seems to better represent the F6F-3) and also I will be 3D printing some thin wheel inserts so I can make the aircraft in gear up position . 

 

My first question is in regards to the paint schemes I have planned. Initially, I wanted to model JX814/132-W - I wanted to make a Hellcat Mk II with the EDSG/DSG/Sky, and the BPF roundels with the bars (I'm using the 1/72 XtraDecal Set). This scheme seemed to be thrown around a lot by a few model companies so I assumed it to be accurate.

 

HOWEVER, I later began doing a bit of research and I learned about a Canadian ace in the FAA, Bill Atkinson, who flew Hellcats. Being Canadian, in addition to the current state of global affairs, I thought it would be neat to make something a bit more Canadian. I ended up finding this lovely build of two of Atkinson's Hellcats, linked below: 

The one which struck my interest was of course JW861/116-W. This one seems to be very similar to JX814 overall. My one concern is that I have not seen many photos of the aircraft (aside from the one included in the post linked). Further, I have seen many people represent 116-W as a Hellcat Mk I (with the rear canopy windows and other changes). Of the photo I have, I am unsure as to whether or not it is accurate. In summary, my main question is - is the lovely portrayal of JW861 shown here accurate/reliable enough? Or would it be a safer option to go with JX814, even though it is not flown by a Canadian?

 

Secondly - does anyone have any photos of FAA pilot uniforms in the BPF? What would the uniform look like for a pilot in-flight?

 

Thirdly - some minor details - roughly how tall should the serial number/ ROYAL NAVY text be? What font is the text? Also, what is the font and size of the little "116" or "132" markings on the gear doors? As well, does anyone have any high-quality photos of the logos seen on the Hellcat props? Lastly - the Hobbyboss kit does not come with the stencils I've seen on Hellcats. I don't plan on adding every stencil, but are there any major stencils that may be easy to print out and make custom decals for, and if so, is there somewhere I may be able to easily access high-quality images of these? 

 

Sorry for the long text and thank you for your time and knowledge!

 

Domenic

 

EDIT - Forgot to ask - what colours would the cockpit and engine cowling likely be for either of the aircraft? I've seen a couple ideas thrown out so I would like to get a bit more clarification on that too . 

Edited April 24 by B0BY_1234567
Forgot a question :)

[Duggy]

I have this photo tagged as a Grumann F6F-3 HMS Speaker ? (JX701)

Edited April 24 by Duggy

[tempestfan]

According to Robertson, the complete batch JX670 to 999 were -5/Mk II.

[Graham Boak]

According to Aircraft of the FAA, Mk.II JX701 was recorded at Coimbatore Naval Yard until issued to 1839/1844 squadrons in May 1945, went into Indomitable's barrier 30th August.  The W code is that of Indomitable.  Earlier service elsewhere i.e. Speaker, does not seem to have been recorded, but maybe there will be more in the soon(ish) issue of the second edition of the book.  It would explain the apparent late use of the FAA scheme.  Speaker spent the war as a training and ferry carrier, later supporting the BPF.  It is possible that she carried JX701 out to Australia where it ended up on Indomitable as a replacement for aircraft lost in May's Kamikaze attack?  This could be reading a little too much into the gaps in information.

[stever219]

5 hours ago, B0BY_1234567 said:

Thirdly - some minor details - roughly how tall should the serial number/ ROYAL NAVY text be? What font is the text? 

ROYAL NAVY and the serial numbers are 4 inches high and 2 1/2 inches wide.  Stroke width is 1/2 inch.  The "font" is not one that you will find in modern word-processing software but was specified in an Air Publication (others will know which one, my memory's kaput just now) which gave illustrations of each character including corner radii.

[Grey Beema]

5 hours ago, B0BY_1234567 said:

 

The one which struck my interest was of course JW861/116-W. This one seems to be very similar to JX814 overall. My one concern is that I have not seen many photos of the aircraft (aside from the one included in the post linked). Further, I have seen many people represent 116-W as a Hellcat Mk I (with the rear canopy windows and other changes). Of the photo I have, I am unsure as to whether or not it is accurate. In summary, my main question is - is the lovely portrayal of JW861 shown here accurate/reliable enough? Or would it be a safer option to go with JX814, even though it is not flown by a Canadian?

 

JW867 / W116.  1839 NAS aircraft.  03.45 to 08.45.  Recorded in Bill Atkinson’s Logbook 21.05.45.  Bill claims he didn’t shoot down the Mytr, Bill Foster did.

 

JX814 / W132 was used by Foster to destroy a Ki43 ‘Tony’ 12.04.45.  
 

In terms of accuracy, I did the best I could but until photos are unearthed of all 5NFW aircraft, then there is always a bit of conjecture involved.

[Mycapt65]

3 hours ago, Duggy said:

I have this photo tagged as a Grumann F6F-3 HMS Speaker ? (JX701)

 

2 hours ago, tempestfan said:

According to Robertson, the complete batch JX670 to 999 were -5/Mk II.

This would me correct. As the pictured plane is definitely a -5/MkII. At least that's clear 🤣

[B0BY_1234567]

Thank you everyone for the replies! Happy to hear that JW867 can be an option! Funnily enough, I was doing a bit of research and found that JX814 was also being flown by a Canadian when it was lost on April 13th - Lt. Charles Rae Thurston of Toronto. I also find this quite interesting, so I may end up going with JX814 after all! Thank you all for your help so far! 

[Grey Beema]

19 hours ago, B0BY_1234567 said:

Thank you everyone for the replies! Happy to hear that JW867 can be an option! Funnily enough, I was doing a bit of research and found that JX814 was also being flown by a Canadian when it was lost on April 13th - Lt. Charles Rae Thurston of Toronto. I also find this quite interesting, so I may end up going with JX814 after all! Thank you all for your help so far! 

 

Charlie Thurston was indeed killed flying JW867 / W132 13.04.45.  He was shot down by the BPF and there was a lot of resentment as they also shot down a Seafire.  According to Goodson "a Val flew low over the deck and seemed to get away with it.  The bloody ships gunners shot down Thurston instead".

 

Actually I got mixed up whilst writing this and its crap.  According to FAA Aircraft 39-45 Sturtivant & Burrows JX814 was W132 - flown by Foster and Thurston.  - apologies for mis leading you  JW867 was W116 the very model I made..

 

[Lee Howard]

On 24/04/2025 at 15:00, Grey Beema said:

 

Charlie Thurston was indeed killed flying JW867 / W132 13.04.45.  He was shot down by the BPF and there was a lot of resentment as they also shot down a Seafire.  According to Goodson "a Val flew low over the deck and seemed to get away with it.  The bloody ships gunners shot down Thurston instead".

Thurston was killed in JX814, not JW867.

Edited April 25 by Lee Howard

[Alan P]

6 hours ago, B0BY_1234567 said:

I was doing a bit of research and found that JX814 was also being flown by a Canadian when it was lost on April 13th

5 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

Charlie Thurston was indeed killed flying JW867 / W132 13.04.45.

53 minutes ago, Lee Howard said:

Thurston was killed in JX812

The thick plottens! 😬 Hoping for a definitive answer at some point 🤞

[B0BY_1234567]

http://www.forposterityssake.ca/Navy/RCN-OBITS-SECTION-67.htm 
 

Both Eduard’s instructions and this website here seem to list JX814 as the aircraft Thurston was flying on April 13th. Curious to know where JX812 comes into play. To my knowledge I am unaware of Thurston flying JW867. 

[iang]

12 hours ago, Lee Howard said:

Thurston was killed in JX812, not JW867.

Lee, is this based on revisions to the current listing in FAA Aircraft, which identifies JX814 as Thurston's, not JX812?

[iang]

7 hours ago, B0BY_1234567 said:

http://www.forposterityssake.ca/Navy/RCN-OBITS-SECTION-67.htm 
 

Both Eduard’s instructions and this website here seem to list JX814 as the aircraft Thurston was flying on April 13th. Curious to know where JX812 comes into play. To my knowledge I am unaware of Thurston flying JW867. 

JW867 was lost in a barrier crash on April I, 1945 (not Thurston), so could not have been the aircraft Thurston was flying on April 13. There was an investigation into Thurston's loss on 13 April, but the Admiralty Reports do not give the identity of the Hellcat.  According to the Admiralty Combat Reports, Thurston's usual aircraft for Iceberg I was JW741 (131/W), but this was not the aircraft he was lost in.

[Grey Beema]

@Lee Howard apologies the info I posted re JW867 was incorrect.  I mixed up a cross reference between two secondary sources.

 

 

I do have another question for you that I perpetually ask hoping one day someone might have uncovered the answer:-

 

Do you have the side numbers for:

Hellcat II JX762 - Flown by WHI Atkinson (1844 NAS) 06.04.45?

Hellcat II JW772 - Flown by WHI Atkinson (an 1839 machine) 12.04.45?

Hellcat II JW881  - Flown by WHI Atkinso n(1844 NAS) 16.04.45?

The side numbers are not recorded in Atkinson's Logbook

 

Many thanks

[Grey Beema]

1 hour ago, iang said:

JW867 was lost in a barrier crash on April I, 1945 (not Thurston), so could not have been the aircraft Thurston was flying on April 13. There was an investigation into Thurston's loss on 13 April, but the Admiralty Reports do not give the identity of the Hellcat.  According to the Admiralty Combat Reports, Thurston's usual aircraft for Iceberg I was JW741 (131/W), but this was not the aircraft he was lost in.

 

Hi Ian,

 

Was JW867 a write off after that accident?  According to Atkinson's Log Book he flew "867" on 21.05.45.  I think we had conversation a while back as to whether Atkinson was referring to JW867 or JX867.  JX867 seems (according to FAA Aircraft) to have no history with 1839 or 1844 and only arrived in Sri Lanka after 21.05.45.Not saying this is the aircraft Thurston was lost in.  Just checking the history.

 

Thanks

 

Phil

 

 

[Lee Howard]

13 hours ago, iang said:

JW867 was lost in a barrier crash on April I, 1945 (not Thurston), so could not have been the aircraft Thurston was flying on April 13. There was an investigation into Thurston's loss on 13 April, but the Admiralty Reports do not give the identity of the Hellcat.  According to the Admiralty Combat Reports, Thurston's usual aircraft for Iceberg I was JW741 (131/W), but this was not the aircraft he was lost in.

Sorry - my finger trouble this time! That should read JX814 (original post amended). Long day at Kew and drive home!

Edited April 25 by Lee Howard