DC-3, Pre-War, Cyclone Engines

[John]

Looking for some advice from DC-3 specialists. 

I want to build a Cyclone-engined DC-3, as used by KLM in the immediate Pre-War period. Built by Fokker, I believe? 

I've got the Cyclones and KLM decals, but my question is which kit am I best starting from? I know most of them are derived from C-47s and a certain amount of modification will be needed, but what exactly? 

I remember Italeri did a boxing with the early passenger door as an insert, but it was on the wrong side. It also retained it's Twin Wasp cowlings. 

Any and all advice gratefully received 😀

John 

[72modeler]

John,

If you go to the internet and do a search for DC-3 with R-1820 Cyclones and click on images, you will find numerous photos of the engines, props, cowlings as well as preserved aircraft. Other than the cowlings, intakes, exhausts, narrow chord props, and possibly window arrangement, I think the only other major difference was that early DC-3's had a narrow chord fin. I'm not a civil aircraft authority, so you might want to wait on one of our resident experts. American Airlines has a beautiful  restored and airworthy DC-2 and DC-3, which you will see in many of the internet photos, and you can go to the American Airlines Museum website for more photos. Hope this helps!

Mike

[KRK4m]

IMHO the simplest (which doesn't mean simple) solution in 1/72 is to buy this Ukrainian Amodel kit. https://www.mojehobby.pl/products/LI-2-P-T.html?partner_id=9

Li-2 was a Douglas C-50B licence-built in Russia during WW2 and for a few years post-war. It has a few differences (passenger doors on the starboard side of the fuselage, and DC-3 had on the port side), double rear struts for the main landing gear legs (DC-3 has single ones), but generally the fuselage, wings, tail and cowlings fit the DC-3 with R-1820 engines.

The C-50B was the only Skytrain variant with R-1820 engines and a starboard door - like the Li-2. IIRC these were pre-war DC-3s ordered by Braniff and requisitioned by the USAAC after Pearl Harbor. 

All other ex-civilian C-50s (and C-48, C-49, C-51 and C-52) had either the portside door (like the C-47) or the 14-cylinder R-1830 Twin Wasp engines.

Cheers

Michael

[John]

Many thanks. 

I'll check out the American Airlines references. 

I hadn't thought about the A Model kit, but it might save on a bit of conversion work. 

John 

[John]

This is my target:

 

 

John

[JWM]

The cowlings of (some?)  KLM DC3 with Cyclone engines have a flat top part. Such cowlings are in B-18 Bolo kit (SH/MPM) as one of the option there

[Admiral Puff]

You'll also have to modify the undercarriage to the pre-war fabricated type - all available kits have the C-47 style cast legs. JWM's photos give you a reasonable idea of what's involved.

 

And there's another Cyclone-engined version of the DC-3/C-47 around. Post WW2, Australian National Airways modified most of their "DC-3" fleet (they purchased various versions from ADAT) to have ex-Lockheed Lodestar Cyclone engines and cowls. Long story short: Ivan Holyman was a bit of a wheeler-dealer, and purchased ADAT's stock of Lodestar engines and spares at a bargain price. These were fitted to the ANA fleet; the displaced R-1830s were sold on at a tidy profit. The Lodestar cowls have a distinctly different shape from the pre-war Cyclone ones you're looking at.

[glwanabe]

I don't have anything relevent to the question. DC3's were my favorite acft to jump from when I did that sort of thing. 

The prop blast as you went out the door felt like being shot from a cannon. 

 

Good times!

[John]

I bought these a while back, against the day I'd have time to do anything with them:

 

 

 

John

[JWM]

Soviet used some original DC-3 with Cyclones, they have the same shape of cowlings - more about it here 

https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/li-2/tapanidc3/dc3.htm

Regards

J-W

[Admiral Puff]

I should have added that I am doing a similar conversion - one of ANA's pre-war DC-3s when leased by the RAAF early in WW2 when they were desperate for heavy transport aircraft. Externally identical to what you're doing, except that the passenger door was on the port side. I've found the Airfix C-47 with those Flightpath engines to be quite suitable.

[Orso]

Don't forget the air intake in the nose.  I have built a 1/48 DC-3 and modified the landing gears to the early D-3 type and have plans to to it again but im 1/72 this time

I don't see any advantage using the A-Model Li-2 for this. Sur you have the passenger door on the right side but also a cargo hatch with a door on the left side. 

The cockpit windows has an extra window behind the normal ones and the landing gear doesn't look like the early type found on the Swedish Fokker made planes. I have only seen it on Soviet planes.

The engine cowls in the kit doesn't have the flat top in the openings either. Those Flightpath engines is the same that I used on my USAAF C-79 (Ju52).

I have plans for two pre war DC-3's in 1/72. One with the passenger door on the right side wit P&W engine and the other with the door on the left side but with Cyclone engines. I will use the Esci kits for these since I need to convert the landing gears and it is almost impossible to do on the Italeri kit as the landing gear isn't moulded full length. Looking at pictures of the sprues of the new Airfix C-47, it look like it has full length to. It is sad that it is impossible to build a pre war DC-3 or Ju52 in 1/72 without lot of modifications (filling and sanding)

 

Edited May 26 by Orso

[John]

Ah, it's an intake on the nose? I thought it was a light. 

John 

[Archer_VC10]

On 07/04/2025 at 22:00, 72modeler said:

I think the only other major difference was that early DC-3's had a narrow chord fin.

The narrow chord fin was a DC-2 issue. The older ones suffered from some directional instability and later ones had a broader fin. The DC-3 only ever had one fin shape AFAIK.

 

The Dutch DC-2s and DC-3s were not Fokker-built. Anthony Fokker arranged a licence to sell Douglas airliners in Europe with the aim of also licence building some (which would provide the firm with some much-needed experience in aluminium construction techniques). That never happened though. Douglas-built airframes were shipped to Europe and assembled at Cherbourg or Rotterdam airfield by KLM or Fokker personnel.

[dnl42]

On 4/8/2025 at 10:02 AM, John said:

This is my target:

 

 

John

Is that a DC-2?

[Archer_VC10]

No, a DC-3, I'm pretty sure it's PH-ASR named 'Roek'. See also the photo on this page (one third down): https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/dc-3-194/

 

Wanted to add: The C.R. Smith museum in Dallas, TX, has a nice early model DC-3 on display. This one: 

 

Edited April 16 by Archer_VC10
Added photo of C.R. Smith museum's example.

[John]

It is PH-ASR. Photographed at Grangemouth on July 1st 1939.

 

John

[Archer_VC10]

In those days, KLM aircraft were named after bird species with the first letter of the species corresponding to the last letter of the registration. A helpful feature if you're trying to identify an aircraft from an old photo.

[John]

In the garage looking for something else and...

 

 

John

 

[Admiral Puff]

Welcome to the human race!