Muscle car group build … WE MADE IT !!!

[vppelt68]

We're not talking about sports cars, but muscle cars here. A four door sedan Satellite with a 426 was just as quick as a 2d HT. Maybe even quicker. Some drag race with STW:s because they have better weight transition on rear wheels than a sedan... so the number of doors should in my opinion not be the ruling factor. We'd probably not get a flood of "fordors"anyway, the "tudors" will always be a majority.  by V-P

[TonyW]

It's hard to define pornography, but you know it when you see it.

You can cover a car in stripes and loud colours and give it a big engine, but if it's got four doors it's not the real deal. A '68 Roadrunner is a Muscle Car. Your Dads '68 Belvedere four door with a possibly bigger engine is not a Muscle Car.

 

I'm old school. The world ended in about 1974 for me as far as cars go. The Super Duty Trans Am and the last of the big block Corvettes were the fading light of the Muscle Car era. I've heard there are other opinions out there, but it seems unlikely.

 

 

[tangerine_sedge]

For me, the definition of a muscle car is slightly nebulous, so agreeing hard and fast rules is difficult.  For me, it's less about number of doors and more about the number of cylinders - 8 being the minimum and maximum

[vppelt68]

The question is indeed tricky. Despite what I just wrote, I must also agree with what Tony said

I'm happy it's Dennis's choice, not mine 

...and fortunately, the model kit manufacturers don't offer us tempting options for the sedans

[Black Knight]

My '80 Olds Cutlass had a 5.7L engine and could really shift

But it was a 4-door sedan and no way was it a 'muscle car', not even a sports car even though it could well out perform my '78 Cadillac Coupe DeVille with its 7L engine and 2-doors which was listed as a 'sports model' and I'd not describe that really as a 'sports car'

It depends on its qualities and the market it was aimed at

No to 4-doors

[Keeff]

Muscle car: 

A high performance American car with a powerful engine, typically a V8, and a focus on speed and acceleration. Some iconic examples include the Ford Mustang, Chevrolet Camaro, Dodge Challenger, and Pontiac GTO. These cars are known for their powerful engines, distinctive styling, and historical significance in the automotive world. (I asked my good friend Google to define 'muscle car') 

 

It's 2 doors for me! 

 

Keith ☺️ 

 

 

[Mjwomack]

1 hour ago, TonyW said:

It's hard to define pornography, but you know it when you see it.

You can cover a car in stripes and loud colours and give it a big engine, but if it's got four doors it's not the real deal. A '68 Roadrunner is a Muscle Car. Your Dads '68 Belvedere four door with a possibly bigger engine is not a Muscle Car.

 

I'm old school. The world ended in about 1974 for me as far as cars go. The Super Duty Trans Am and the last of the big block Corvettes were the fading light of the Muscle Car era. I've heard there are other opinions out there, but it seems unlikely.

 

 

I feel intimidated just looking at the picture- that's muscle!!!

Think there's a certain irony in the strap line 'Safety is no accident. Drive with care' on an advert for that!

[TonyW]

46 minutes ago, Mjwomack said:

I feel intimidated just looking at the picture- that's muscle!!!

Think there's a certain irony in the strap line 'Safety is no accident. Drive with care' on an advert for that!

 

One of a series of similar adverts from Dodge. Certain segments of Detroit were out of control at that point. 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

18 hours ago, TonyW said:

The Super Duty Trans Am

Actually had one of these with the 455 Ci. It was the biggest mistake selling the car. 

18 hours ago, vppelt68 said:

and fortunately, the model kit manufacturers don't offer us tempting options for the sedans

True… though JoHan models would have been the best bet for these cars. 

Edited July 8 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

I will leave the discussion up for a few more days and then tally up the responses.

[silverfox63]

On 7/7/2025 at 10:22 AM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Are these the cars later used for the police cars in Mad Max

No, the Mad Max cars are a mix of XA ('72-'73) (March Hare call sign) and XB  ('73-'74) (Big Bopper's car and Max's car) sedans, with the black interceptor being an XB coupe. The Night Riders car is an Holden HQ coupe ('71-'74).

Hope this makes sense.

[silverfox63]

Holden ran the 2 door Monaro from '68 until '77. Also had 4 door SS and GTS models from '72-'78. Ford only had the performance coupe from '73-'78. There was a 2 door Ford, based on the US Sprint coupe,  in '64'-'66, but only had a 6 cylinder engine.

 

I think the main reason Australia went with 4 door cars over 2 door was the fact that the 2 door didn't appeal to the family and fleet buyers. One of the reasons the '67 XR GT sedan came into being was because Ford Australia were trying to woo the local police forces with a practical 4 door sedan that was also faster than most cars for highway patrol work.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

46 minutes ago, silverfox63 said:

No, the Mad Max cars are a mix of XA ('72-'73) (March Hare call sign) and XB  ('73-'74) (Big Bopper's car and Max's car) sedans, with the black interceptor being an XB coupe. The Night Riders car is an Holden HQ coupe ('71-'74).

Hope this makes sense.

Yeah Im semi familiar with some if the types. I’ve always wanted to do both Max’s coupe “The last of the V8 Interceptor’s” and a standard patrol car. You know whats funny is I cant stand the new movies but love the original series of 3 movies. 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

The reasoning behind me asking if 4 door sedans should/shouldn't qualify is simple. I never stopped to think about foreign production. Particularly the thinking that was put into those cars of the eras that were are looking at. 

[silverfox63]

I think it's a case of one man's muscle car is another man's family hack with a big engine.

For example, the Phase IV XA GT Falcon was always going to be a 4 door sedan, and more powerful than the previous Phase III. So powerful in fact , that a campaign was started to stop production for fear of these "Supercars" becoming available on the second hand market, and maybe not in tip-top condition, to drivers with less than adequate skills and them maybe becoming a road toll statistic. The government picked it up, put pressure on Ford, mainly by threatening to take their fleet sales elsewhere (Holden, Chrysler). Ford gave in, and the Phase IV was quietly killed off.

 

Funny thing is, all the subsequent performance (I wont call them muscle cars) Commodores and Falcons from about the '90's onwards have all had more power than the Phase IV was alleged to have.

 

P.S. Yes, the first three Mad Max films are great, Fury Road and Furiosa, not so much. In fact, I thought Fury Road was just a retelling of Mad Max II, The Road Warrior.

Edited July 8 by silverfox63

[TonyW]

A dig about today turned up a couple of likely lads for the GB...

 

 

Both Monogram, both Hooligans from the era. Just the job.

 

I'm possibly a bit premature with this pair, there's a danger of me going off the boil between now and 2026.

A more likely scenario is that by then I will have dug out a whole lot of others.

[Mjwomack]

32 minutes ago, TonyW said:

A more likely scenario is that by then I will have dug out a whole lot of others.

Because I was surprised that you only had two candidates!  I do like the idea of a six pack but do not approve of drink-driving!

[Black Knight]

24 minutes ago, Mjwomack said:

Because I was surprised that you only had two candidates!  I do like the idea of a six pack but do not approve of drink-driving!

I always say; Don't drink and drive; pull over to finish the tinnie/bottle - you'll spill less

[vppelt68]

For me the hottest MoPar engine would have been the 426 Max Wedge, that was too soon replaced by the Hemi.

[TonyW]

2 hours ago, Mjwomack said:

Because I was surprised that you only had two candidates!  I do like the idea of a six pack but do not approve of drink-driving!

 

The original Cramps version of Bikini Girls with Machine Guns had the line " I've been a Drag Racer on LSD" in it. The sanitized MTV version substituted "in Tennesse"  for "On LSD". Can't be having the kiddys minds twisted, can we? Pretty much sums up the emasculation of anything even slightly threatening as soon as cash gets involved.

318 powered Road Runners and Opera windowed Dodge Chargers take a similar line.

The Dodge Six Pak line was one of many non PC ones taken at the time. It's the way the world was then.

[Redstaff]

Normally I tend to build competition cars from F1 or Group B rally, but I've got a soft spot for a muscle car  

Funnily enough I'm building a 1970 ZR-1 Corvette for the "lesser-known manufacturers" GB at the minute

Put me down for a spot as the car builds always get overlooked and there are plenty of choices to get hold of a suitable kit to build 

It depends on what others build so I can choose something different, so we get plenty of variety, always liked the 1/2 bumper Z28 Camaro though,  

 

Ian  

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

6 hours ago, TonyW said:

A dig about today turned up a couple of likely lads for the GB...

 

 

Both Monogram, both Hooligans from the era. Just the job.

 

I'm possibly a bit premature with this pair, there's a danger of me going off the boil between now and 2026.

A more likely scenario is that by then I will have dug out a whole lot of others.

The Super bee and Charger are high on my list as my brother was a Mopar man. Im a Poncho (Pontiac) and Ford guy myself. So it will be one of them or a 1962 Chevy with a 409 to honor Brian Wilson. 

Edited July 8 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

4 hours ago, vppelt68 said:

For me the hottest MoPar engine would have been the 426 Max Wedge, that was too soon replaced by the Hemi.

I’m a 440 and a 392 then 426 when it comes to the Mopar engines. 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 hours ago, Redstaff said:

Normally I tend to build competition cars from F1 or Group B rally, but I've got a soft spot for a muscle car  

Funnily enough I'm building a 1970 ZR-1 Corvette for the "lesser-known manufacturers" GB at the minute

Put me down for a spot as the car builds always get overlooked and there are plenty of choices to get hold of a suitable kit to build 

It depends on what others build so I can choose something different, so we get plenty of variety, always liked the 1/2 bumper Z28 Camaro though,  

 

Ian  

Welcome aboard I will add you to the list. 

[Black Knight]

I'm wondering if we shud keep to 'Muscle Car' as Detroit Iron only

Them thar foreign kiddie cars are 'super cars', not Muscle Cars

Just saying like

 

(ducks and runs away quickly)