Anyone know what CA kicker Is - What chemical - Is there a cheap alternative?

[nheather]

Hi,

 

I don't have much luck with CA glues.

 

I don't use them much but have the habit of buying the more expensive regarded brands, usually in bigger bottles because it seems to be more economical, it should be enough to last me years but inevitably over time it turns into a thick gloop or sets solid in the bottle.

 

And I've just discovered a similar tail of woe with my CA kicker.  Again, big name, quite expensive, barely used before, go to use it and the bottle is empty, not leaked, not spilled, but evaporated from the sealed bottle.

 

Getting fed up of spending £10 for a new bottle, wouldn't mind so much if I knew it was going to last years or that I would get lots of use out of it.

 

So wondering, whether CA kicker is another one of these products that can obtained cheaper under a different purpose?

[cmatthewbacon]

It’s mostly naphtha (which is itself a mix) which explains why it evaporates so easily. Zippo lighter fuel is also naphtha and might be worth a try. It’s also useful for thinning oil paints for a wash that dries quickly! It has to be fluid for a wick-type lighter not a “gas” one, obvs. But you can buy a litre of unbranded on eBay for £14 if you really develop a taste for it…

best,

M.

[pigsty]

The stuff that evaporates quickly isn't the accelerator, it's the medium the accelerator is carried in.  So naphtha (or acetone, the other common medium) won't work on its own.  The actual substance in question seems to be N,N-dimethyl-p-toluidine, and the chances of buying that on its own are slim.

 

However, there are aerosol accelerators that should last a lot longer in their containers and come in a lot cheaper.  I've found some around £7 to £8 for 200ml.  Spraying accelerator all over your model might not go well, but it may be possible to decant some and get it into place before it evaporates.

[cmatthewbacon]

Doh! Should’ve occurred to me that it wasn’t the naphtha doing the work!

 

Mind you… my experience with accelerator has’t been great… the plastic of the kit cracked overnight when I used it gluing some resin bits to a Revell Eurofighter….

best,

M.

 

 

 

[Rob de Bie]

I use CA extensively for everything, I hardly use anything else, for ~25 years now. But I've never ever used accelerator. What's the reason for using it? It will only weaken the glue joints, since the curing reaction is so rapid that the CA gets very hot, then shrinks to ambient temperature, introducing a lot of stress. I would recommend not using it at all.

 

Rob

[DaddyO]

Old freeflight trick when trying to get superglue to go off on cold damp days outdoors is to add some baking powder to the joint (not bad as a crude filler either)

 

Paul

[cmatthewbacon]

If the real problem is superglue not curing fast enough, then a couple of thoughts. In line with the baking soda idea, any time there’s a bit of a gap, I put some “microballoons” in first. I’ve had the same bottle for a decade, so you don’t use them very quickly! They provide much more surface area for the ÇA to cure on, rather than using a thicker layer, so it goes off almost instantly. The added benefit is that the set mixture sands much more like softer plastic than hard superglue, so blending the join is much easier. The second thing is even more DIY. Without accelerator the curing of the superglue is triggered by moisture in the air or on the surface. So before joining the parts, I take a deep breath, hold it a while and then gently “huff” it out over the parts, like you would if you were breathing to mist your glasses before cleaning them… it may be sympathetic magic or science, but either way it _seems_ to speed things up for me…

best,

M.

[cmatthewbacon]

17 minutes ago, Rob de Bie said:

shrinks to ambient temperature, introducing a lot of stress

I suspect that’s probably what did for my Typhoon…

best,

M.

[Rob de Bie]

10 minutes ago, cmatthewbacon said:

If the real problem is superglue not curing fast enough, then a couple of thoughts. In line with the baking soda idea, any time there’s a bit of a gap, I put some “microballoons” in first. I’ve had the same bottle for a decade, so you don’t use them very quickly! They provide much more surface area for the ÇA to cure on, rather than using a thicker layer, so it goes off almost instantly. The added benefit is that the set mixture sands much more like softer plastic than hard superglue, so blending the join is much easier. The second thing is even more DIY. Without accelerator the curing of the superglue is triggered by moisture in the air or on the surface. So before joining the parts, I take a deep breath, hold it a while and then gently “huff” it out over the parts, like you would if you were breathing to mist your glasses before cleaning them… it may be sympathetic magic or science, but either way it _seems_ to speed things up for me…

 

AFAIK, you're right. The cure starts when the pH reaches a certain threshold level, and adding water vapour changes the pH. I too sometimes breathe on my glue joints - but it feels weird 🙂

 

Rob

[Chuck1945]

3 minutes ago, Rob de Bie said:

 

AFAIK, you're right. The cure starts when the pH reaches a certain threshold level, and adding water vapour changes the pH. I too sometimes breathe on my glue joints - but it feels weird 🙂

 

Rob

Artificial respiration for glue? 😉

[Rob de Bie]

10 minutes ago, cmatthewbacon said:

I suspect that’s probably what did for my Typhoon…

 

There's one more possibly explanation. I noted that a lot of my microstrip details would crack severely when I applied CA. But only when the strip was bent, not when it was straight. Recently I did s simple experiment, taking 1 mm plastic card, bending it in a U-shape, fix that shape with a piece of tape, and then apply CA to the bent section. Only the Zap thin CA would cause cracking, severe cracking even.

 

 

Here are two more samples, showing the severity.

 

 

I would be interested if anyone can test their CA with a similar test.

 

Rob

3 minutes ago, Chuck1945 said:

Artificial respiration for glue? 😉

 

Hehe !! 🙂

 

Rob

[cmatthewbacon]

I think  the Typhoon was Zap plus Zip Kicker. IIRC I'd glued in a resin cockpit (those were the days when I did that sort of thing) and closed up the fuselage with regular plastic cement and taped it overnight. When I came to look at it the next day the fuselage sides outside the cockpit and up around the nose where the IP sat had cracked and fragmented all the way through, rendering the whole thing unsalvageable. I think it's actually still the only model I have binned during construction as irrecoverable...

best,

M.

[Troy Smith]

7 hours ago, nheather said:

So wondering, whether CA kicker is another one of these products that can obtained cheaper under a different purpose?

Mitre glue sold for uPVC windows, a 200ml bottle of thick superglue plus a can of spray accelerant.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-mitre-adhesive-200ml/280kh

 

You can just spray some of the activator into a a container ans apply by brush, and as it an aerosol it last indefinitely AFAIK.

 

HTH 

 

[Rob de Bie]

On 3/7/2025 at 5:59 PM, cmatthewbacon said:

I think  the Typhoon was Zap plus Zip Kicker. IIRC I'd glued in a resin cockpit (those were the days when I did that sort of thing) and closed up the fuselage with regular plastic cement and taped it overnight. When I came to look at it the next day the fuselage sides outside the cockpit and up around the nose where the IP sat had cracked and fragmented all the way through, rendering the whole thing unsalvageable. I think it's actually still the only model I have binned during construction as irrecoverable...

 

Wow, that sounds almost unbelievable!! I don't think I've ever heard anything similar. Did you make any photos before you tossed it?

 

Note that in my experiment, it was essential that the plastic was bent. In straight parts of the specimens, nothing happened when CA was applied. Therefore I would not expect that your Typhoon disaster was the same mechanism.

 

Rob

[colin]

Stopped buying expensive CA as it always seems to go off quicker than Toolstation/Screwfix CA,also get the CA de-bonder from them too

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

On 3/7/2025 at 9:47 AM, Rob de Bie said:

I use CA extensively for everything, I hardly use anything else, for ~25 years now. But I've never ever used accelerator. What's the reason for using it? It will only weaken the glue joints, since the curing reaction is so rapid that the CA gets very hot, then shrinks to ambient temperature, introducing a lot of stress. I would recommend not using it at all.

 

Rob

Thank you … I tried accelerator and it always failed. I did find on jeeps or trucks if you want mud clumps in the wheel well’s then it works great for that. Drop several drops in of your favorite C/A and spray several times and I always got these clump/beehive structures. Then I would paint it varying shades of the proper earth color to finish it off. 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

On 3/7/2025 at 10:22 AM, Rob de Bie said:

 

There's one more possibly explanation. I noted that a lot of my microstrip details would crack severely when I applied CA. But only when the strip was bent, not when it was straight. Recently I did s simple experiment, taking 1 mm plastic card, bending it in a U-shape, fix that shape with a piece of tape, and then apply CA to the bent section. Only the Zap thin CA would cause cracking, severe cracking even.

 

 

Here are two more samples, showing the severity.

 

 

I would be interested if anyone can test their CA with a similar test.

 

Rob

 

Hehe !! 🙂

 

Rob

I suspect the C/A heat expanded the stress cracks from bending. 

[dogsbody]

I use Krazy Glue. It comes in small vials that are fairly cheap and i can get at the grocery store just up the street.

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Hunker]

I use this. Cheapest out there and works as well as any. 20 cents a tube.

[Black Knight]

I occasionally use plain water in a spray mister* as a 'kicker' to speed up superglue setting. Superglue works faster in damp conditions, thats why it'll stick your fingers together super fast, its the dampness/moisture in them

But the superglue sometimes turns white with the water mist. However that doesn't matter most of the time

 

* small perfume bottle type mister

[CFster]

29 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

I occasionally use plain water in a spray mister* as a 'kicker' to speed up superglue setting. Superglue works faster in damp conditions, thats why it'll stick your fingers together super fast, its the dampness/moisture in them

But the superglue sometimes turns white with the water mist. However that doesn't matter most of the time

 

* small perfume bottle type mister

Yep. It’s the moisture in the air that causes CA to polymerize.