blanco77 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Hi, I post very infrequently on this forum, and if people are literally bored of this question including moderators etc, I would be a bit disappointed but not surprised if this post was deleted immediately, it has nothing to do with VAR being removed from football, so you can relax there. Ok, I want to know if anyone has tried to assemble an entire 1.72 Airfix, Revell, Tamiya Hobbyboss.. Aeroplane with CA. A 2020+ modern tool, new soft plastic 1.72 kit with just CA, Superglue and all its names, brands and viscosity? Every, near every single You Tube build uses the brush and very thin, dry quicker than swimming on the sun, poly with capillary action squeeze and tiny dab to over seam brush. For what ever reason I just cannot make the stuff work, at all. I’ve tried washing sprues, scratching and scraping paint (I am a fan of glueing painted parts so this I hope is the problem) but I have always scrubbed mold release agents, made the join bits, sanded, rough, clean as best I can, to receive this extra thin, capillary Tamiya quick dry technique just won’t work for me. I’ve tried the AK extra thin. I’ve tried a few, is the viscosity an issue? Then you perhaps cannot enjoy the obvious benefits of Capillary action and neatness of the application brush, maybe even the brush might be the culprit? Any ideas as I really want to nail this, no pun intended. Thanks. S
alt-92 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 10 minutes ago, blanco77 said: I would be a bit disappointed but not surprised if this post was deleted immediately Try posting in the appropriate area, and you run less of a risk? https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/82-tips-amp-tricks/
Adam Poultney Posted January 21 Posted January 21 I only use three plastic glues. Revell Contacta for large areas. The needle applicator is nice for precision. Tamiya Extra Thin for the vast majority of parts. Tamiya Extra Thin quick drying for a few parts. When using Extra Thin, I tend to put a little on the surface first, but most of the glue is applied with the two parts held together. Works fine for me. If parts aren't conducive to using capillary action already held together, Revell contacta is suitable. This is usually things like landing gear parts 2 1
alt-92 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 13 minutes ago, blanco77 said: I want to know if anyone has tried to assemble an entire 1.72 Airfix, Revell, Tamiya Hobbyboss.. Aeroplane with CA. My question is: why the CA? Almost everyone else is using the products you mention and seem to get on with them. Are you doing something different perhaps? Can't imagine it's all bad luck spread out over different products.
TheKinksFan Posted January 22 Posted January 22 15 hours ago, blanco77 said: For what ever reason I just cannot make the stuff work, at all. I’ve tried washing sprues, scratching and scraping paint (I am a fan of glueing painted parts so this I hope is the problem) but I have always scrubbed mold release agents, made the join bits, sanded, rough, clean as best I can, to receive this extra thin, capillary Tamiya quick dry technique just won’t work for me. I’ve tried the AK extra thin. I’ve tried a few, is the viscosity an issue? The plastic parts are not the culprit, no matter how greasy or dirty they would be, the cement will still melt polystyrene. For the capillary action to work the to parts must be in contact with each other, and sometimes you have to lightly press them together, for instance when welding two fuselage halves together. Thin cement can also be used to first apply it to a part, and then attaching it to its location. But it will evaporate very fast, and the melted area where cement was applied will start to harden fast, if it's hardened too much it will not grip the other part. That's why we usually use also thicker cements like Revell contacta or Tamiya Cement (white cap). I often first use Revell contacta, and when the part is in its place I add a little bit of thin cement. As thin cement is transparent and the consistency is like water it's hard to see how much there is in the brush. It might be that you have so little in the brush that it evaporates before the tip touches the plastic. On the other hand if the brush is too loaded, that can also cause problems, as the cement will flood the surface and damage it. There are builders who use primarily or even entirely thick cement, so thin cement is not really something that is indispensable, it's just handy when used right. 1 1
TheKinksFan Posted January 22 Posted January 22 15 hours ago, Adam Poultney said: If parts aren't conducive to using capillary action already held together, Revell contacta is suitable. Revell contacta is good stuff. But I don't really like the needle applicator, so I pour the contents into an empty Tamiya/Mr Cement jar and apply it with the brush.
dromia Posted January 22 Posted January 22 I prefer tube glue, however the current crop seems a bit on the thin side. I make my own "tube" glue by dissolving clear runner pieces in MEK. However I have been using the Tamiya white label glue, not their weak and ineffective extra thin, and have taken a shine to it. For a liquid cement I use MEK or the commercial Mek Pak, at least that stuff stays long enough to melt the plastic rather than instantly evaporating like extra thin.
Steve McArthur Posted January 22 Posted January 22 Same as Tamiya Extra Thin at a fraction of the cost. Save an old TET bottle and just use this to top it off. 1 1 1
Paul821 Posted January 22 Posted January 22 For a few years now my usual glues are those from Deluxe Materials, you can download their catalogue and guide here: https://deluxematerials.co.uk/collections/glue-charts . Unlike other I do like the needle type applicator so use: their Precision Plastic Glue 2. To answer the OP's original question - yes I did experiment with CA glue on an injection moulded kit. It worked but the answer is why would I do it regularly? It's a glued joint rather than a welded one and the cost is very high. Another question about the thinner brush glues One issue aleady raised is their rate of evaporation, my modelling room can get very warm in the summer and I find these impossible to use in those conditions.
Nocoolname Posted January 22 Posted January 22 I use both thick (i.e. classic tube of polystyrene cement) and extra thin (e.g. Tamiya) depending on the circumstances and occasionally some CA ‘on top’ especially where I need an extra strong bond or a seal. I only ever use CA alone for glueing non-styrene parts. The main challenge with styrene can be painted parts. The paint can mess up adhesion as much as the paint work itself. Depending on their nature and the circumstances it can often be preferable to paint parts prior to assembly but I try to ensure the areas that need to be joined are free of paint and tend to use a very small amount of thick polystyrene cement for the join to reduce the chance of cement bleed or the problems that may be caused by the extra thin. For me it requires an extra dimension of thinking to the build process and I’m doing this right now with two builds I have on the go which are almost ready for priming. On one, my preference had been to pre-paint a number of sub-assemblies but the need for a strong bond between the parts due to it being a load bearing structure meant it was better to go with a ‘glue first, paint later’ approach despite this making the paint job a lot harder. I also have to keep the connection points clear of paint with cocktail sticks and masking fluid so the cement will work when it comes to their attachment. So the combination of Humbrol tube polystyrene cement and Tamiya extra thin used carefully as the parts and situation dictate has worked well for me and this has been achieved after lots of trial and error and error and even more error. I think the only cement I struggled to get along with was the thin stuff like Revell Contacta Professional and its Humbrol equivalent. I often found it created a hard resin like layer rather than a bond but I also know that it works really well for plenty of people.
AlbertLima Posted January 22 Posted January 22 Mr. Cement SP as the extra thin Tamiya "regular" white cap with brush for what doesn't have a suitable contact patch for extra thin Any white glue for canopies and clear parts Liquid superglue (hobby store own brand) applied with a wood skewer for finishing touches like aerials, landing gear or external stores Perhaps a step by step description of how you try gluing might help us figure out what's going wrong?
Hunker Posted January 22 Posted January 22 11 hours ago, TheKinksFan said: Revell contacta is good stuff. But I don't really like the needle applicator, so I pour the contents into an empty Tamiya/Mr Cement jar and apply it with the brush. Use this. Same stuff but in a bottle with a brush applicater https://revell.de/en/shop/product/contacta-liquid?srsltid=AfmBOor_7dwXq9POJaqjWOfsgob18igkvNZokK4K7nQ3DRMtNqO3y8B5
TheKinksFan Posted January 22 Posted January 22 34 minutes ago, Hunker said: Use this. Same stuff but in a bottle with a brush applicater Thank you, but it is not the same, although confusingly has almost the same name. From revell.de: The Revell Contacta Liquid Liquid Glue is the perfect partner for model building enthusiasts who expect the highest precision and lasting stability. With its unique, super-thin formula, this adhesive enables extremely fine dosing and an invisible connection of the components. Simply applied to the inside of the plastic components with the integrated brush, the Contacta Liquid fuses the parts and thus ensures a permanently firm connection. Ideal for demanding model building projects where millimetre-precise details and clean results are important. The big advantage: Thanks to the precise application, the adhesive remains invisible, while the models retain their aesthetic perfection Last year I almost bought a bottle before realizing it's not the same. They should sell contacta professional in jar, it's better than Tamiya cement , doesn't thicken and become stringy.
Graham Boak Posted January 22 Posted January 22 Just what is the difference: as in how it works when modelling rather than a chemical description? Why is it so inferior that you didn't buy it?
blanco77 Posted January 22 Author Posted January 22 Hey, I’m astonished and really grateful for all your replies. Just a quick note now to say thank you all for what looks like a great response and I’m sure will be useful resource on deciding and trying different approaches with poly cement in all its formats. Sorry if I posted in the incorrect area. Thanks again guys. S 2
Hunker Posted January 22 Posted January 22 1 hour ago, Graham Boak said: Just what is the difference: as in how it works when modelling rather than a chemical description? Why is it so inferior that you didn't buy it? Exactly. I've found the Revell Contacta liquid to be my go to glue, with Tamiya extra thin as a partner. I tried Tamiya white label bottle glue, and found it too thick. The Revell glue flows better and has more strength. It has never gone stringy. With all the cleaning problems of the needle applicator glues I wonder why anyone even uses them. 1 1
Graham Boak Posted January 22 Posted January 22 @Hunker. What do you mean by "exactly"? I asked what the difference was, and you haven't said. As for cleaning problems: one short gash piece of household wire will produce a single wire prod that will clear the Contacta tube. OK, getting the wire into the tube can be a bit awkward for the optically deficient. I can think of reasons why do I use it, despite deficient eyesight, and ease of application is prime. Not that a brush applier isn't almost equally effective, if inclined to flood, and I used to use one before the supplier stopped supplying them, but it tended to dry when applied along fuselage halves before returning to the starting point. I'm happy to learn that Contacta is available with a brush - or is it? Just what is the difference in the glue? From a market point of view, obviously different people have different preferences in glue application, else these different methods would have disappeared and the One True Method would suit us all. 1
Hunker Posted January 23 Posted January 23 Sorry Graham, I thought your post inferred that there were no real discernible differences, to which I agree. However I have a glue with the thin needle type and I find it is a royal PINA to keep clean. The few times that I need a needle tip I can use a real needle tipped with glue. It's bad enough that I have to clean my airbrush, I'm not going to start cleaning glue nozzles! I honestly don't know the difference in the glue chemistry, but I'm willing to bet the two glues are the same, perhaps a reducer added to make it flow through the thin needle. Does this make a real world difference? I'm willing to say no. Does one glue dry faster than the other? Probably not. Is one glue stronger than the other? Probably not. Is one glue easier to apply than another? Yes, the needle type is easier, after you've spent ten minutes or more unplugging the nozzle. The brush type Revell glue has graced my models since my return to the hobby, and nobody will ever see any excess glue on any of them. Tamiya extra thin takes the place of using the thin needle applicator Revell glue. 1
Rob G Posted January 23 Posted January 23 Weird. I use Tamiya Extra Thin almost exclusively, and have no problems, even in an actual hot place (I live in tropical Australia, with no air conditioning), and most of the local club guys use it too. Tamiya's white cap and Revell's needle pointed blue squeezy bottle thing are also useful. As are CA and PVA-based adhesives, in their place. For keeping the needle clean, I have a piece of thin piano wire with a rounded tip that goes back into the hole at the end of a session. It's not always easy to line it up, but it works.
spfparker Posted January 23 Posted January 23 I use Plastic weld solvent from http://www.directtrainspares-burnley.co.uk/chemicals.html. excellent stuff. 250ml for £6
Mr_Sworld Posted January 23 Posted January 23 For cleaning the Contacta needle I just summon my inner pyromaniac and burn off the glue with a lighter. Easy, peasy (and satisfying). 🤪
Toe Posted February 4 Posted February 4 I've used EMA Plastic Weld Cement for years now and I haven't thought of changing because I'm very happy with it, why? I use a paint brush to apply it which to me is better as it's more precise and the bristles are finer, I can put on as little or as much as I want and it's very easy to apply precisely when using capillary action which it is very very good at. Nearly everything I glue now I hold the pieces together with a very small gap so the capillary action is at it's best and when I can't do this a drop of glue is good enough. I also now tend to not paint any pieces until I've got a sub assembly together as of course the glue won't work with paint in the way, although it will eat through the paint and then glue but by then the paint has bubble up so a wasted effort to paint in the first place. I find it strange that many YouTubers paint the parts and then glue without any attempt to scrape the paint away from the mating faces 😕
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted February 4 Posted February 4 I have a 3 part system. I use Tamiya extra thin on most applications. Its strong dries quickly and works within my budget and needs. I also use old fashioned tube cement on internal weak or flexible joints as the Tamiya extra thin can be brittle on flexible joins. Last glue is Cyanoacrylate, I use a gel and a liquid variety pending on my needs. Gel for quick setting but maneuvering time needed. Liquid for filling and holding certain parts together.
Elwick Posted February 10 Posted February 10 For me it is Tamiya Extra Thin for small parts and where parts are naturally holding in contact. For bigger surfaces or where a really strong bond is required I’ll use Revell Contacta with the needle applicator.
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