Bill1974 Posted December 30, 2024 Posted December 30, 2024 (edited) Hello all, I wanted to share my latest attempts at putting together an exhaustive list of base, shadow and highlight colours for the figures I’ve been painting for my dioramas. Previously (up until now) I have been searching high and low through the internet for paint schemes and found a very varied bunch of answers and schemes, that contradicted and often clashed in terms of scope and or colours. This lead me to try and make a master version for myself, which I have done in my note book ( it nearl as exhaustive as the below), which is ok but did need a more fulsome edit. Just this evening I have opened and used for the first time a chat GPT AI app to find the varied nations, theatres and army/navy/airforce/tankers colours to put together a more comprehensive list. I will not pretend this will satisfy every modeller in terms of paint colour choices / shades or by manufacturer, but I will defend what it contains broadly as it follows what I have seen and researched and added to my notebook, however it is with a great deal more clarity and order and I had to share so that others could use this info and not have to go through the ringer as I have prior to using the AI bot. Next post contains the copied and pasted info from the reply from chat GPT…. ENJOY! pps - (I have a .pdf copy that has better formatting that was made directly from the AI Bot but I do not know how to add it here as it’s not a photo (I’d use Imgur), any advice as how to add that here would be gratefully received) Edited February 16 by Bill1974
Bill1974 Posted December 30, 2024 Author Posted December 30, 2024 Here is a comprehensive list of Vallejo Model Color (VMC) and Model Air (VMA) triads for British, German, and US figures, split by nation and theater. Each section includes the base, shadow, and highlight mixes for uniforms, camouflage patterns, and equipment, as worn by army, air force, navy and armored tank units in various campaigns (Europe, North Africa, Middle East). 1. British Uniforms and Equipment European Theater Early War: Army Battle Dress (Khaki Brown) • Base: VMC 921 English Uniform • Shadow: Mix VMC 921 English Uniform + VMC 872 Chocolate Brown (3:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 921 English Uniform + VMC 819 Iraqi Sand (3:1) Late War: Greenish Khaki Battle Dress • Base: VMC 880 Khaki Grey • Shadow: Mix VMC 880 Khaki Grey + VMC 873 US Field Drab (3:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 880 Khaki Grey + VMC 819 Iraqi Sand (2:1) British Tank Crew (Early and Late War Overalls) Early War Brown Overalls • Base: VMC 921 English Uniform • Shadow: Mix VMC 921 English Uniform + VMC 872 Chocolate Brown (4:1) • Highlight: VMC 873 US Field Drab Late War Green Overalls • Base: VMC 880 Khaki Grey • Shadow: Mix VMC 880 Khaki Grey + VMC 950 Black (4:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 880 Khaki Grey + VMC 837 Pale Sand North Africa and Middle East Theater Desert Uniforms (Khaki Drill) • Base: VMC 988 Khaki • Shadow: Mix VMC 988 Khaki + VMC 875 Beige Brown (4:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 988 Khaki + VMC 837 Pale Sand (2:1) Desert Tank Crew • Base: VMC 821 German Camo Beige WWII • Shadow: Mix VMC 821 German Camo Beige WWII + VMC 873 US Field Drab (4:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 821 German Camo Beige WWII + VMC 819 Iraqi Sand (3:1) RAF Desert Air Force (Light Brown Uniforms) • Base: VMC 877 Goldbrown • Shadow: Mix VMC 877 Goldbrown + VMC 872 Chocolate Brown (4:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 877 Goldbrown + VMC 914 Green Ochre (3:1) 2. German Uniforms, Camouflage, and Equipment European Theater Wehrmacht Field Grey Uniforms (Army/Heer) • Base: VMC 830 German Field Grey • Shadow: Mix VMC 830 German Field Grey + VMC 950 Black (4:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 830 German Field Grey + VMC 920 German Uniform (2:1) SS Camouflage Patterns Pea Dot Summer Camouflage • Base: VMC 821 German Camo Beige WWII • Green Dots: VMC 979 German Camo Dark Green • Brown Dots: VMC 826 German Camo Medium Brown • Light Dots: VMC 837 Pale Sand Oak Leaf Spring • Base: VMC 924 Russian Uniform WWII • Shadow: Mix VMC 924 Russian Uniform WWII + VMC 873 US Field Drab (3:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 924 Russian Uniform WWII + VMC 819 Iraqi Sand (2:1) Splinter Camouflage (Smocks and Zeltbahns) • Base: VMC 826 German Camo Medium Brown • Green Splinters: VMC 979 German Camo Dark Green • Light Brown Stripes: VMC 821 German Camo Beige WWII Winter Uniforms (Whitewash) • Base: VMC 993 White Grey • Shadow: Mix VMC 993 White Grey + VMC 990 Light Grey (4:1) • Highlight: VMC 820 Off White North Africa and Middle East Theater Afrika Korps (DAK) Uniforms • Base: VMC 988 Khaki • Shadow: Mix VMC 988 Khaki + VMC 873 US Field Drab (4:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 988 Khaki + VMC 837 Pale Sand (2:1) Tropical Helmets • Base: VMC 880 Khaki Grey • Shadow: Mix VMC 880 Khaki Grey + VMC 873 US Field Drab (4:1) • Highlight: VMC 837 Pale Sand DAK Tank Crew • Base: VMC 821 German Camo Beige WWII • Shadow: Mix VMC 821 German Camo Beige WWII + VMC 875 Beige Brown (4:1) • Highlight: VMC 819 Iraqi Sand 3. US Uniforms and Equipment European Theater M1941 Olive Drab (Standard Infantry Uniform) • Base: VMC 889 US Olive Drab • Shadow: Mix VMC 889 US Olive Drab + VMC 950 Black (4:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 889 US Olive Drab + VMC 988 Khaki (2:1) US Tank Crew Overalls • Base: VMC 950 Black • Shadow: Mix VMC 950 Black + VMC 862 Black Grey (4:1) • Highlight: VMC 862 Black Grey or mix VMC 862 + VMC 992 Neutral Grey North Africa and Middle East Theater Desert Uniforms (Light Olive Khaki) • Base: VMC 988 Khaki • Shadow: Mix VMC 988 Khaki + VMC 873 US Field Drab (3:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 988 Khaki + VMC 819 Iraqi Sand (2:1) US Tank Crew in Desert Overalls • Base: VMC 821 German Camo Beige WWII • Shadow: Mix VMC 821 German Camo Beige WWII + VMC 873 US Field Drab (4:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 821 German Camo Beige WWII + VMC 837 Pale Sand (2:1) 4. Common Equipment Colors Leather Rifle Slings and Boots (Brown Leather) • Base: VMC 871 Leather Brown • Shadow: Mix VMC 871 Leather Brown + VMC 822 German Camo Black Brown (3:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 871 Leather Brown + VMC 914 Green Ochre (2:1) Metal Parts (Guns, Tools) • Base: VMC 950 Black • Shadow: Mix VMC 950 Black + VMC 995 German Grey (3:1) • Highlight: VMC 995 German Grey or add VMC 863 Gunmetal Grey Webbing and Straps British Webbing • Base: VMC 914 Green Ochre • Shadow: Mix VMC 914 Green Ochre + VMC 873 US Field Drab (4:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 914 Green Ochre + VMC 837 Pale Sand (2:1) German Black Leather Gear • Base: VMC 950 Black • Shadow: Mix VMC 950 Black + VMC 862 Black Grey (4:1) • Highlight: VMC 862 Black Grey US Webbing • Base: VMC 988 Khaki • Shadow: Mix VMC 988 Khaki + VMC 873 US Field Drab (4:1) • Highlight: Mix VMC 988 Khaki + VMC 819 Iraqi Sand (2:1) This list provides a comprehensive set of color mixes for British, German, and US forces across all major WWII theaters and uniform types. Let me know if you need more specific breakdowns or advice on weathering and highlighting techniques! 7 1
Bill1974 Posted December 30, 2024 Author Posted December 30, 2024 So long as I’m not breaking some form of convention I would be more than willing to somehow post the.pdf file or email it as required…. Happy to help! 1
Gordon J Posted January 2 Posted January 2 What a brilliant piece of work and reference material Bill. If you can find a way to link the PDF then I would certainly be keen to download it and keep it for future reference. 1
Bill1974 Posted January 2 Author Posted January 2 (edited) Due to I believe there being no way to post a pdf (I have searched at length for how to do this and can find nothing) I have screen shot each page, of which is below. https://imgur.com/a/8g4TwHT I have been working on getting chatGPT to make a paint triad guide for all Vallejo colours, approximately as follows - each colour from model colour range with a mix for shadow using black, highlight using white, shadow using another model colour other than black or white that is a triad match for both as a shadow and highlight. it seems to get confused easily and makes crazy result, which I have taken as I need to ask in a clearer way, which I have been putting together a properly formatted and ordered question with links and rules etc etc. I will see what it comes up with and let folks know. Also I asked it to provide a guide for painting flesh and faces, of which is below and in above link. Edited January 2 by Bill1974 1 2 2
Head in the clouds. Posted January 10 Posted January 10 That must have taken some time so thanks very much for the work you have put into it. 1
Bill1974 Posted January 10 Author Posted January 10 My experiments with chat gpt stalled as it said I had used it too much, so I’ve paused, not only because of the ‘you can’t keep abusing our ai this way’ message but because writing in such clear and unambiguous language had my head spinning as it has become so very logical and super ordered to control so many variables in such a concise manner. When the wind lifts my sails again, I will dive right back in for more 🤓 but that isn’t now and when the mood takes me as it’s become somewhat of a written logic task.
flyingpiggy Posted January 13 Posted January 13 If there is an award for most comprehensive and useful post, it would be a travesty if you didn't get it. I bought the full VMC range some time ago, they are all still OK, I now intend to start some figure modelling using your excellent guide. Thank you 1
flyingpiggy Posted January 13 Posted January 13 If you have the time could you possibly email me the PDF kind regards Stu 1
Bill1974 Posted January 13 Author Posted January 13 Sure, @flyingpiggy if you private message me your email address via Britmodeller I’ll email it through.
Bill1974 Posted January 14 Author Posted January 14 An update…. I ran through my instructions master for the Vallejo colour mixes and made further revisions and even added some further bits asking for the ai to check my work and suggest alterations… It made some suggestions so I updated the instructions slightly and restarted, as below instructions: Quote Provide paint mixes using Vallejo Model Colour Range Palette colours via the following methodology - 1. Populate a table using rows and columns using information contained within reference document named ‘vallejo’ and as follows 2. Column names as follows a. Position - containing information from column 1 contained in reference document b. Vallejo Colour - containing information from column 2 contained in reference document c. Vallejo Ref. - containing information from column 3 contained in reference document d. Shadow Mix (black) - containing paint mix as referenced in point 3 e. Highlight Mix (white) - containing paint mix as referenced in point 4 f. Shadow Mix (other) - containing paint mix as referenced in point 5 g. Highlight Mix (other) - containing paint mix as referenced in point 6 3. Shadow Mix (black) – Formulate a mix of colour with a two-step change in original shade darker than original colour, where the original colour is the larger proportion of the mix with a smaller proportion of pure black as taken from standard Vallejo Model Colour Range Palette, ref: (Black 70.950) 3.1 Formula as follows – 4:1 - [(Vallejo Colour) (Vallejo Ref.) : (Black 70.950)] 3.2 Where: (Vallejo Colour) = information from point b. above and (Vallejo Ref.) = information from point c. above 4. Highlight Mix (white) – Formulate a mix of colour with a two-step change in original shade lighter than original colour, where the original colour is the larger proportion of the mix with a smaller proportion of pure white as taken from standard Vallejo Model Colour Range Palette, ref: (White 70.951) 4.1 Formula as follows – 4:1 - [(Vallejo Colour) (Vallejo Ref.) : (White 70.951)] 4.2 Where: (Vallejo Colour) = information from point b. above and (Vallejo Ref.) = information from point c. above 5. Shadow Mix (other) – Formulate a mix of colour with a two-step change in original shade darker than original colour, where the original colour is the larger proportion of the mix with a smaller proportion of a colour other than black 70.950 or white 70.951 from the Vallejo Model Colour Range Palette that is a triad match with regards to HSB colour model using hue (H), saturation (S) and brightness (B) to choose an appropriate colour from the Vallejo Model Colour Range that when mixed with original colour provides the two-step change in shade 5.1 Formula as follows – (X1):(X2) – [(Vallejo Colour) (Vallejo Ref.) : (Chosen Vallejo Colour) (Vallejo Colour Reference of Chosen Colour)] 5.2 Where: (X1) = Larger proportion of original Vallejo colour that you should figure out the value of the ratio, (X2) = Smaller proportion of chosen Vallejo Colour that you should figure out the value of the ratio and the colour, (Vallejo Colour) = information from point b. above and (Vallejo Ref.) = information from point c. above and (Chosen Colour) = the colour you decide as point 5, (Vallejo Colour Reference of Chosen Colour) = the corresponding Vallejo Model Colour dependant on the colour you choose 6. Highlight Mix (other) – Formulate a mix of colour with a two-step change in original shade darker than original colour, where the original colour is the larger proportion of the mix with a smaller proportion of a colour other than black 70.950 or white 70.951 from the Vallejo Model Colour Range Palette that is a triad match with regards to HSB colour model using hue (H), saturation (S) and brightness (B) to choose an appropriate colour from the Vallejo Model Colour Range that when mixed with original colour provides the two-step change in shade 5.1 Formula as follows – (X1):(X2) – [(Vallejo Colour) (Vallejo Ref.) : (Chosen Vallejo Colour) (Vallejo Colour Reference of Chosen Colour)] 5.2 Where: (X1) = Larger proportion of original Vallejo colour that you should figure out the value of the ratio, (X2) = Smaller proportion of chosen Vallejo Colour that you should figure out the value of the ratio and the colour, (Vallejo Colour) = information from point b. above and (Vallejo Ref.) = information from point c. above and (Chosen Colour) = the colour you decide as point 6, (Vallejo Colour Reference of Chosen Colour) = the corresponding Vallejo Model Colour dependant on the colour you choose 7. The ratio of the mixes that you determine should always be reduced to their natural minimum values, ie 4:1, 3:1, rather than say 8:2, 6:2 or other non reduced format 8. The colours you choose, as in points 5 and 6 should show preference too colours that represent a triad match with regards to HSB colour and follows the proceeding examples - darkening - an original colour of light blue/green/red/brown etc should be mixed with a darker shade of blue/green/red/brown etc or a grey or blue/green/red/brown etc grey dependant on the shade of colour being mixed – lightening – an original colour of dark blue/green/red/brown etc should be mixed with a lighter shade of blue/green/red/brown etc or a off-white / light yellow/fawn/sand etc 9. The colours you choose, as in points 5 and 6 should avoid unnecessary repetition of the selected colour as the lesser mix colour, for example – adding greys/browns universally to darken or adding yellows/off-whites to lighten unless necessary or unavoidable Review the information above and state your opinion regarding the logic, clarity etc of the contents and suggest alteration/s as you deem necessary to allow a simpler or easier calculation of the mixes that reduces error or unnecessary complication / calculation Provide example of the first 10 colours for review (colour position 1 through 10 of Vallejo model colour position reference) Once I have determined the data and formatting to be acceptable via the following command – proceed - continue to provide further mixes in batches of 25 colours for review only continuing each time via the following command - proceed Once all batches of colours have been determined compile a complete uninterrupted table of colours for me to download It went through the entire process of first 10 then all the batches of 25 and right at the end had a little bit of a ai brain freeze as it went past the reference document list which only contains 204 colours for some reason, it also said I had used up my allotted memory or size type thing and stopped short of providing a download file until I hope my useage data resets at 11.13am or so it said. I’m gonna have to leave it there and come back to it later and hope it comes up with a downloadable file or this will have all been for naught. 🤓 ps Years ago when computers came along and I was told they would make things easier and simpler and I had to admit (at the time 😝) that I agreed, now many years later I feel that it has not made one single difference and that all it has done has changed one set of difficulties / time wasting repetitions / complications etc with another newer set that in truth has only made things more complicated and time consuming. Gone are the days of typewriters and carbon paper duplicates and dare I say it ‘actually using a pen or pencil in a meaningful or enjoyable way’ All that comes to mind is a blackadder quote…. Blackadder: Sir, may I be allowed a short violent outburst? Prince George: Why yes of course. Blackadder: DAMN.
Bill1974 Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 Update! After my data usage had reset ChatGPT finally got round to spitting something useful out. It wouldn’t provide a download file but was able to provide data for me to copy and paste into an excel file, which has been formatted and organised and made into another pdf, which if you private message me with your email address I will be happy to email you one or all of; Painting Faces, Uniform Colours or my new one Vallejo Model Colour Shades. Below is what ChatGPT spewed out and I have tinkered with to make it readable / useable. I cannot fully guarantee that every paint mix is fully the best or most suitable, but after some considerable double checking (not all of it but enough for me to be happy) and quick proof reading I have not noticed anything that is way off, please feel free to provide feedback / comments if there is something that needs adjustment or revision. It has been very challenging to complete these tasks and format them to my satisfaction (I have high standards) and now I have a taste for this I don’t intend to stop here, so if you feel there is another topic that would be suitable for / useful to be put into a guide please post suggestions and I will have a think and come to a decision if I can put something together that has some value. Happy Modelling 🤓 2 1
Phantome Posted January 15 Posted January 15 Just curious, what exactly is Chat GPT's use here? Are you using it to calculate paint mixes? I ask this because if Chat GPT decides to use the reference RGB values for each Vallejo paint this will be woefully inaccurate since no model paint company uses accurate RGB values for this.
Bill1974 Posted January 16 Author Posted January 16 10 hours ago, Phantome said: Just curious, what exactly is Chat GPT's use here? Hiya @Phantome I hope this quote find you well. Yes that is what I asked it to do, I found a website that had put together mixes for paints that I have found was very useful but it didn’t have enough colour mixes to be fully useful for what I needed it to do. These are they…. https://balagan.info/vallejo-triads-three-colour-shading-with-vallejo-model-color-paints https://armycrafter.com/paints/vallejo/model-color/old-rose I have not at anytime pretended that those of you out there that are concerned with nanomillimeter type accuracy and will get each and every pair of nickers at hand in a twist will be satisfied. There is no way that I could get the proper and complete data for all the colours of a paint range and fully formulate matches for colours, what I could do is find a work-around that suits a basic need. There is a massive gap out there as to how to get mixes of colours to paint models, be that either aircraft, afv’s or figures for base, shadow and highlight, this is an attempt to plug that gap. If you deem it helpful, use it at your discretion, if not, quiet simply don’t. For the nay sayers who will criticise and debate the minutiae please hold your tongue and or provide a work-around solution for paints mixes that satisfies your needs for accuracy and for those willing to find ways to assist and enjoy the hobby by spreading what I believe to be useful stuff, have at it.
szeregowy Posted February 15 Posted February 15 Hi Bill, Thanks for taking the time for all this, as it is quite helpful for guide for someone like myself who is a total newbie. However I can't see any references regarding uniform colours for German tank crews from early war (1939-1940). I know that they were sort of black-ish, but would be interesting to know if you have any recommendations regarding the base paint, highlights and shadows. Thanks, Dan 1
Bill1974 Posted February 15 Author Posted February 15 1 hour ago, szeregowy said: I can't see any references regarding uniform colours for German tank crews from early war (1939-1940). Hi @szeregowy, as far as I have found the uniforms were black and pink piping both earl and late war, I have some jpgs I’ve found and some stuff I’ve put together for myself, I’ll find and post it in a moment. 1
Bill1974 Posted February 15 Author Posted February 15 (edited) @szeregowy these are they, there are too many to add singularly so this is the link to all of them on Imgur. https://imgur.com/a/8sdIm3Q I’ll try and add some other bits from books also…. I’ve added some photos (at the end of the link) from the book are screenshots of reference photos from a AK German tank crew book. The book runs through painting without giving much info on the paints (other than AK paint references). I’ve made my own Vallejo paint reference jpg. Which is in the link somewhere in the upload. As far as I’ve been able to find out German tank crews wore slightly different hats and berets and were issued with different uniforms as the war went on - they were always black. It seemed that the early war issue uniforms was far better quality of materials and generally tayloring so the tankmen generally kept the early stuff and wore it even if they were issued new uniforms later on. This seems to have happened to nearly all German soldiers irrespective of navy, army, airforce etc with uniforms constantly changing and being worn with other kit as suited them. I hope this is useful to you, if something doesn’t make sense or whichever get back to me via this thread or pm me and I’ll assist all I can. Onwards and upwards! 🤓 Edited February 15 by Bill1974 1
szeregowy Posted February 16 Posted February 16 Hi @Bill1974. This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again for getting back to me. 1
Bill1974 Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 1 minute ago, szeregowy said: This is exactly what I was looking for. Happy to help 🤓
Bill1974 Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 @szeregowy in the link I’ve also just added my guides I made for - British weapons, German weapons, tiger i shell types, tiger ii shell types and panther shell types. Happy days 🤓
scootsmgoots Posted June 29 Posted June 29 Im a little late to the party, but this is some valuable information. Thank you so much for taking the time to provide it
Bill1974 Posted June 29 Author Posted June 29 7 hours ago, scootsmgoots said: Im a little late to the party, but this is some valuable information. Thank you so much for taking the time to provide it @scootsmgoots you’re entirely welcome, if you have questions or need some more info, let me know and I’ll see what I can do. Enjoy! 🤓
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