Selling stuff to Northern Ireland and the EU rule changes - will this affect small suppliers?

[bootneck]

I've just received information about changes to rules impacting the selling of stuff to the EU and Northern Ireland.

 

Does anyone know how small a business size these changes affect?  Will it impact our model and aftermarket producing cottage industries?

 

Quote from a UK model supplies company:

"You may have heard about the new GPSR regulations coming into effect on 13th December 2024. If not, have a look at the bottom of the email for an explanation. The new regulations affect the movement of goods from England, Scotland, and Wales into the EU and Northern Ireland.
Unfortunately this new regulation outlines some very costly and time consuming rules, which is very difficult for smaller companies to implement.

We are a small team and carry a vast inventory of products from hundreds of suppliers from all over the world making this an overwhelming task."

 

Here is a short precis of the new Rules:

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[Black Knight]

20 minutes ago, bootneck said:

I've just received information about changes to rules impacting the selling of stuff to the EU and Northern Ireland.

 

Does anyone know how small a business size these changes affect?  Will it impact our model and aftermarket producing cottage industries?

It affects EVERY business, including the one-man band cottage companies

But they may slip though the net as they'll only be checking registered companies

I reckon after the 13th I'll not be able to order from Hannants

[bootneck]

That could be bad news for you and others.  The company mentioned in my initial post state that, although the effective date is the 13th. they are suspending orders to those regions from the 9th.  This is because of logistics of receiving an order, preparing any forms etc., and arranging shipping; meaning that the 13th would be too late for them to action.

 

cheers,
Mike

[Black Knight]

I've heard, since the 30th November, that many smallish companies are stopping trading into N.I. Some companies here rely on the supplies from GB to make their stuff. Without those supplies they will have to close down, with plenty of redundancies. One small company employs about 12 people plus owners, so that 14 people out of work. Just before Christmas and at short notice

 

Actually, I may have a way around it; My dottir, my ex-Mrs and one son live in Scotland and my no.1 son has a business colleague in Northamptonshire. I last used that contact several years ago when I bought some enamel paints. No one would send them over so we had them delivered to no.1's friend and when he was over he collected them. Thusly I can have items sent to Scotland and family can forward it on to me

[bootneck]

I've just done an online search and this comes up for GPRS.  I wonder how this will affect the likes of Kingkit?

 

Effective from 13 December 2024, the General Product Safety Regulation (GPSR) aims to ensure the sale of safe products to buyers in the European Union (EU) and Northern Ireland (NI). This regulation applies to both new and second-hand products sold in these markets, and it introduces specific requirements for businesses regarding product safety information.

To comply with the GPSR, eBay have advised all business sellers listing items for sale in the EU and NI that they must include a ton of information in their listings and the fields are now live. Bear in mind, you’ll also need this information (perhaps in a different format) for every other platform you sell on.

 

GPSR information required on eBay

The product manufacturer’s name and contact information

If the manufacturer isn’t located in the EU or NI, you’ll have to indicate an EU-based Responsible Person or entity, along with their name and contact details

Any relevant product information like model number, pictures, type, and CE marking

Product safety and compliance information like safety warnings, labels, and product manuals in the local language

GPRS Impact for seller’s and man hours required

I spoke to one seller who has over 5,000 listings available in six languages, and the impact for them is that with the Product Safety Information required as pictograms they’ll need to upload 30,000 images by the 13th of December… and that’s after they’ve created the images in the first place! And once they’ve dealt with the images, they still have to add in the data fields GPRS requires.

Your first step should be to talk to your multichannel management supplier and ask if they support uploading the required data.

We’ve heard separately that businesses are struggling to obtain manufacture information for some products. It’s going to take time and if you want to continue to sell to the EU and the part of the UK that is Northern Ireland it’s a job that needs starting straight away! One supplier point blank refused to even tell a business who the product manufacturer is – not entirely surprising as they don’t really want all of their customers going direct.

 

We’ve also heard from sellers in the collectibles category – what do you do when you have a relatively old product, perhaps not over 100 years old but one for which the manufacturer no longer exists? It will be impossible to obtain the required information and on the face of things it looks like sales to the EU will simply shut down for this sector.

 

Responsible Person Costs

You will need a Responsible Person who can be one of the following and must be located in the EU or NI:

The manufacturer 

An importer 

An authorised representative of the manufacturer

A  fulfilment service provider if the manufacturer, importer, and authorised representative aren’t based in the EU or NI

We’ve been researching costs for a Responsible Person to act on your behalf, and the very cheapest we’ve heard of (for a product that is paper based so pretty safe in comparison to say an escooter) was around £1500 per year. That’s an indication of the starting point for what you’ll be charged as a minimum for someone who will effectively just rubber stamp the paperwork you gather to sell to the EU and Northern Ireland.

 

GPRS and Northern Ireland on eBay

As Northern Ireland is part of the EU so far as GPRS goes due to the various BREXIT agreements, sellers are asking if they can exclude sales to the territory and sell to Great Britain only. We understand eBay don’t currently easily enable this but they are working on a solution to separate Northern Ireland from Great Britain which should be in place before the 13th December deadline.

 

Mike

[Captain Glumbo]

Why is Northern Ireland included?  Its part of the UK (whether you agree or not), not part of the EU (whether you agree or not).  I thought the whole point of all the border shenanigans after Brexit was down to it being part of the UK and having a soft border into the EU

[Duncan B]

Yes , it is causing quite stir in the model trading community. I am a memeber of a particular trade FB page that is made up of small one man businesses, resellers like myself and many of the 'cottage industry' aftermarket  and one man publishers. They have already been severely effected by the B word with regards to their EU customer base and they feel this is the end for them trading (and even attending shows) in the EU.

I stopped trading with EU when the regulations for recycling were upgraded before the B word but many others continued and were only just getting their customer sales back to pre B word levels in EU. It is a real problem for these businesses.

 

Duncan B

[bootneck]

1 minute ago, Captain Glumbo said:

Why is Northern Ireland included?  Its part of the UK (whether you agree or not), not part of the EU (whether you agree or not).  I thought the whole point of all the border shenanigans after Brexit was down to it being part of the UK and having a soft border into the EU

See my post before yours.

 

Mike

[Duncan B]

5 minutes ago, bootneck said:

I've just done an online search and this comes up for GPRS.  I wonder how this will affect the likes of Kingkit?

 

Effective from 13 December 2024, the General Product Safety Regulation (GPSR) aims to ensure the sale of safe products to buyers in the European Union (EU) and Northern Ireland (NI). This regulation applies to both new and second-hand products sold in these markets, and it introduces specific requirements for businesses regarding product safety information.

To comply with the GPSR, eBay have advised all business sellers listing items for sale in the EU and NI that they must include a ton of information in their listings and the fields are now live. Bear in mind, you’ll also need this information (perhaps in a different format) for every other platform you sell on.

 

GPSR information required on eBay

The product manufacturer’s name and contact information

If the manufacturer isn’t located in the EU or NI, you’ll have to indicate an EU-based Responsible Person or entity, along with their name and contact details

Any relevant product information like model number, pictures, type, and CE marking

Product safety and compliance information like safety warnings, labels, and product manuals in the local language

GPRS Impact for seller’s and man hours required

I spoke to one seller who has over 5,000 listings available in six languages, and the impact for them is that with the Product Safety Information required as pictograms they’ll need to upload 30,000 images by the 13th of December… and that’s after they’ve created the images in the first place! And once they’ve dealt with the images, they still have to add in the data fields GPRS requires.

Your first step should be to talk to your multichannel management supplier and ask if they support uploading the required data.

We’ve heard separately that businesses are struggling to obtain manufacture information for some products. It’s going to take time and if you want to continue to sell to the EU and the part of the UK that is Northern Ireland it’s a job that needs starting straight away! One supplier point blank refused to even tell a business who the product manufacturer is – not entirely surprising as they don’t really want all of their customers going direct.

 

We’ve also heard from sellers in the collectibles category – what do you do when you have a relatively old product, perhaps not over 100 years old but one for which the manufacturer no longer exists? It will be impossible to obtain the required information and on the face of things it looks like sales to the EU will simply shut down for this sector.

 

Responsible Person Costs

You will need a Responsible Person who can be one of the following and must be located in the EU or NI:

The manufacturer 

An importer 

An authorised representative of the manufacturer

A  fulfilment service provider if the manufacturer, importer, and authorised representative aren’t based in the EU or NI

We’ve been researching costs for a Responsible Person to act on your behalf, and the very cheapest we’ve heard of (for a product that is paper based so pretty safe in comparison to say an escooter) was around £1500 per year. That’s an indication of the starting point for what you’ll be charged as a minimum for someone who will effectively just rubber stamp the paperwork you gather to sell to the EU and Northern Ireland.

 

GPRS and Northern Ireland on eBay

As Northern Ireland is part of the EU so far as GPRS goes due to the various BREXIT agreements, sellers are asking if they can exclude sales to the territory and sell to Great Britain only. We understand eBay don’t currently easily enable this but they are working on a solution to separate Northern Ireland from Great Britain which should be in place before the 13th December deadline.

 

Mike

It is the "responsible Person in the EU" that will be an ongoing problem, this was the same requirement with the recycling regulations that killed me off. It just wasn't going to be cost effective having to pay someone in the EU to act as an agent for me and it will be the same with this new regulation I suspect.

 

Duncan B 

[Duncan B]

10 minutes ago, Captain Glumbo said:

Why is Northern Ireland included?  Its part of the UK (whether you agree or not), not part of the EU (whether you agree or not).  I thought the whole point of all the border shenanigans after Brexit was down to it being part of the UK and having a soft border into the EU

No shenanigans, with regards to Goods sent from rUK they are in the EU. We are supposed to fill out and attach a customs declaration (CN22) to all parcels we send to NI as if it was going outside of the UK, although how strictly policed it is I don't know (even my local Post Office is really confused by it) but there is effectively a border down the middle of the Irish Sea for Goods going to NI from the rUK.

 

Duncan B

[Captain Glumbo]

Even when I had a business I dont recall putting CN22s stickers onto NI destinations, just mainland Europe.  Guess I was wrong in that respect by the sound of it.  Thankfully (for my stress levels) no longer a business and I as an individual on fleabay I dont have to worry about this.

[Duncan B]

2 minutes ago, Captain Glumbo said:

Even when I had a business I dont recall putting CN22s stickers onto NI destinations, just mainland Europe.  Guess I was wrong in that respect by the sound of it.  Thankfully (for my stress levels) no longer a business and I as an individual on fleabay I dont have to worry about this.

There have been times I have been in a rush to get a parcel sorted just before the post is due to go and have forgotten to put on a CN22 and haven't had any issues at the sorting office but I don't know if there have been delays at the other side.

 

Duncan B

[Black Knight]

This is really an extension of policies already in use

I use to get my leather hides from a tannery in Newcastle

5 hides, very heavy, were sent by courier. The cost was £16.50

After B. The hides were classified as an animal product, which of course they are. But a vet was needed to fill in a 40 page form for each hide. The lowest cost the courier could get was £90 per hide

So that was 5 x £90 = £450 + £16.50 = £466.50

Then when it got into N.I. a vet had to check the hides. At £100 per hide

5 x £100 = £500 + £466.50 = £966.50

That also all depended on finding vets who were willing to do the paper work

Before B. I could order hides on a Monday and generally got them on a Thursday

After B. I was told the hides could sit in Belfast customs for 4 weeks to 2 months or even longer

By mutual consent my supplier in Newcastle won't supply me

I got my last lot of hides from Italy. They took 5 days to arrive and no custom charges

 

Mild rant over

[Duncan B]

1 minute ago, Black Knight said:

This is really an extension of policies already in use

I use to get my leather hides from a tannery in Newcastle

5 hides, very heavy, were sent by courier. The cost was £16.50

After B. The hides were classified as an animal product, which of course they are. But a vet was needed to fill in a 40 page form for each hide. The lowest cost the courier could get was £90 per hide

So that was 5 x £90 = £450 + £16.50 = £466.50

Then when it got into N.I. a vet had to check the hides. At £100 per hide

5 x £100 = £500 + £466.50 = £966.50

That also all depended on finding vets who were willing to do the paper work

Before B. I could order hides on a Monday and generally got them on a Thursday

After B. I was told the hides could sit in Belfast customs for 4 weeks to 2 months or even longer

By mutual consent my supplier in Newcastle won't supply me

I got my last lot of hides from Italy. They took 5 days to arrive and no custom charges

 

Mild rant over

That sums it up nicely, unfortunately!

I think you will soon find that it will be easier to buy your modelling purchases from someone in Germany than from just over the Irish Sea.

 

Duncan B

[Black Knight]

3 minutes ago, Duncan B said:

There have been times I have been in a rush to get a parcel sorted just before the post is due to go and have forgotten to put on a CN22 and haven't had any issues at the sorting office but I don't know if there have been delays at the other side.

So far the PO and couriers don't care about the CN22

But as for delays; I've had some parcels/packets with a CN22 on them have been rerouted to Eire/Ireland where they sit for about 2 months before being sent back to the UK 

[Black Knight]

My leather supplier in Newcastle says the reports are 'scaremongering'

Basically what he says is that anyone currently set up for selling into the EU wont have to change 

[noelh]

I came across this on gov.uk website:

 

4) Transitional arrangements

The GPSR includes transitional arrangements for products that are already on the market. Article 51 of the GPSR ensures that products already on the market that are compliant with the 2005 UK GPSR as it applies or applied before 13 December 2024 shall continue to be made available. This includes existing stock of product lines that are already on the market. MSAs therefore cannot impede supply of these products if they continue to comply with the 2005 UK GPSR unless they are dangerous products.

 

Also:

 

The majority of market surveillance activities will continue to take place after goods have been made available on the NI market. Authorities will continue to take a proportionate, risk-based, and intelligence-led approach to regulating the NI market, prioritising unsafe products. In line with the Regulators’ Code, Authorities are encouraged to provide advice, support and reassurance to help businesses understand any new obligations, and to avoid non-compliance.

 

The whole thing is here

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eu-regulation-2023988-on-general-product-safety/eu-regulation-on-general-product-safety-2023988

 

That looks like a get out clause. 

 

I tend to agree with BK above that it's scaremongering. I can't imagine officials in Northern Ireland snatching kits sent over by Hannants because of they don't comply with regulations largely aimed at a different target. Probably knock off products from the Far East. 

 

As I live south of the border in the EU it makes me wonder how the rules effect me buying from Japan, China or the US? 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2024 by noelh

[alt-92]

So, this regulation has been in place since 2005, but some people apparently like to stir up feelings. Got it.

[Circloy]

Surely this is aimed at new products. Anything that is 'CE' marked (or equivalent) should already have gone through the appropriate testing.

[Julien]

4 hours ago, alt-92 said:

So, this regulation has been in place since 2005, but some people apparently like to stir up feelings. Got it.

Yes but they are applying to Northern Ireland from the 13th December.

 

Thanks to the Brexit protocol and NI Being in thr "EU" basically a border down the middle of the Irish Sea, its hellisly complicated for trade matters. 

[alt-92]

5 minutes ago, Julien said:

its hellisly complicated for trade matters. 

Oh absolutely. 

But I did the rounds over my five main shopping sites that are outside the EU, and none of them have specific mention of this particular requirement (per December 13th) of which the quoted information suggests it would affect all outside the EU. 
That's why I'm a bit skeptical as to the motivations behind the ruckus.

[Julien]

6 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

Oh absolutely. 

But I did the rounds over my five main shopping sites that are outside the EU, and none of them have specific mention of this particular requirement (per December 13th) of which the quoted information suggests it would affect all outside the EU. 
That's why I'm a bit skeptical as to the motivations behind the ruckus.

No this 13th Dec is only affecting Northern Ireland

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eu-regulation-2023988-on-general-product-safety/eu-regulation-on-general-product-safety-2023988

[Julien]

If you think thats bad ALL cargo from the UK to the EU has since this week required an ENS Or Entry Summary Declaration of a Safety and Security Declaration (SSD), and any goods imported from Europe will require the same from 31/1/25

 

This will all add costs to anything bought or sold to/from the EU.

 

Another brexit bonus as this was know about but not communicated. 

[alt-92]

2 minutes ago, Julien said:

ALL cargo from the UK to the EU has since this week required an ENS Or Entry Summary Declaration

I'll pay attention to the labels of my Hannants order then

[bentwaters81tfw]

Well I've just ordered something from NI, so hopefully it will miss any complications.