Sheer stupidity

[Enzo the Magnificent]

I've seen a lot of stupid things in my time.  To be honest, I've done a lot of stupid things in my time.    But today, I saw the absolute limit.

 

I was driving through town when I noticed a young mother who was pushing her infant in a pushchair.  Nothing wrong about that except that she was focused on her phone held in her right hand.  The pushchair was held in her left hand, off to one side.  Again, nothing particularly wrong except for the fact that she was walking on the pavement (sidewalk to our transatlantic friends) while the pushchair was in the road.

 

In the freakin' road!!!    

 

Cars were having to take avoiding action.   Surely that sort of arrant stupidity is some form of child endangerment?    Even worse was the fact that I was following a police vehicle which took avoiding action but then carried on without stopping. 

 

I mean...   seriously?!?!?!?

 

[Mike]

It happens more than you'd credit.  I'm constantly amazed at the number of pushchairs I see either on the very edge of the pavement or out on the actual road while the parent (most likely) stands there waiting for the lights at the pedestrian crossing to change.  Whether the parent is on the phone or not I couldn't really say, as my attention is usually on the one in danger.

[Admiral Puff]

It's called "Darwinism", isn't it? They're certainly not fit to survive!

[treker_ed]

I had a parent with push chair just step out in front of me as I was turning into the road I live on. She literally just stepped out as I was turning. Wasn't a case of she started to cross the road, and then I turned.... Nope, it was I turned the corner, drove a little, then she stepped out in front of me pushing said buggy, looking right at me.....! I managed to swerve to avoid her, beeped the car horn, and she started swearing and gesturing at me for nearly hitting her.......🥴 My reaction, but in the confines of my car was "What the hell.... You stepped out in front of me, and you're having a go at me for that!!!!!!!!!!" I was genuinely shaken up over it she was that close to being hit due to her stupidity.

[Dave Swindell]

8 hours ago, treker_ed said:

I had a parent with push chair just step out in front of me as I was turning into the road I live on. She literally just stepped out as I was turning

Highway code rule H2 - "At a junction you should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning."

She had priority, you should have stopped/waited.

[Enzo the Magnificent]

42 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Highway code rule H2 - "At a junction you should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning."

She had priority, you should have stopped/waited.

 

I think Ed's concern was that she simply stepped out even though she could clearly see the vehicle. 

 

I have major concerns about that new rule in the Highway Code.  Firstly, now that pedestrians know they have right of way, many of them do not take their own safety into account.  Secondly, a vehicle turning from a main road into a side road which has to stop suddenly can cause on obstruction on that main road.

 

It also seems to be that with the introduction of the new rule, a lot of pedestrians think that it applies everywhere and at any time.  I have seen people regularly step out in front of a car when they clearly have no hope of getting across in time. They simply rely on the driver to avoid them.   

[ckw]

If I touch my phone while driving, major fine. This should also apply to any pedestrian using a pedestrian crossing - they can don't see or hear (esp. EVs) a car approaching. It would be very foolish to assume just because you have the right to cross that every driver is going to respect that right, or that they're paying attention.

 

While on the highway code, a current bugbear of mine are cyclists who use the main road, holding up traffic, when there is a perfectly good cycle path running alongside. As a cyclist myself, I approve of the new priority rules where cyclist have no choice but to share the road with other vehicles. But it seems very one sided - to not use a designated cycle lane where available should also be an offence (though how it would be enforced is another matter).

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Graham Boak]

A couple of problems there: firstly, for pedestrian crossings pedestrians have the right of way not drivers.  Yes it is foolish not to check before stepping out but the driver who hits a pedestrian who is on a crossing is in the wrong.  After all, he/she is the one controlling a dangerous, potentially killing, machine and must be aware of that at all times.  Yes, there may well be qualifying circumstances, but the principle is clear.   Foolishness is not restricted to pedestrians. and other non-drivers, despite what appears to be a common belief.  Secondly, cycle lanes may be present but are often not "perfectly good" but filled with sharp stones, gravel thrown up by passing cars and other potentially damaging material.   For clarity, at the moment I am no longer a cyclist or a driver, for hopefully temporary health reasons.

[bentwaters81tfw]

Prior to the new rules in the highway code, it was always a case of if a pedestrian is crossing a road you are turning into, they have priority.

I say this with the benefit of an instructor's licence. It's something I drilled into my students. You can't legislate for stupidity, but you can be aware it is not uncommon.

 

And the ONLY person that has 'Right of way' is the reigning Monarch.

[ckw]

38 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Foolishness is not restricted to pedestrians. and other non-drivers, despite what appears to be a common belief.

Of course not, but I think it is everyone's personal responsibility to take reasonable care of themselves - not to trust to others to compensate for foolish behaviour. I certainly agree with the underlying principle of the current laws which place the onus on the operator of the more dangerous vehicle, but this must be handled in an even handed way. Cyclists- who should be giving way to pedestrians - seem to get away with cycling along busy footpaths, running red lights etc. And things have got much worse since the advent of electric scooters. Yes these are subject to laws, but there seems to be little or no effort made to enforce them. A general principle of respect for other road users should be applied to all, not just motorists.

 

44 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Secondly, cycle lanes may be present but are often not "perfectly good" but filled with sharp stones, gravel thrown up by passing cars and other potentially damaging material. 

Round here, the cycle lanes (being newer) are  generally in much better condition than the roads!

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[bentwaters81tfw]

But, don't forget the unwritten rule. If there is a cycle path, ignore it and ride in the road. If there isn't a cycle path, ride on the pavement.

[Dave Swindell]

1 hour ago, Enzo the Magnificent said:

I think Ed's concern was that she simply stepped out even though she could clearly see the vehicle. 

And Ed had seen her and didn't give way as he should have done.

 

1 hour ago, Enzo the Magnificent said:

Secondly, a vehicle turning from a main road into a side road which has to stop suddenly can cause on obstruction on that main road.

The vehicle turning off the main road should be prepared to stop at the junction, and be indicating his intentions to following vehicles who should also be prepared to stop

 

1 hour ago, Enzo the Magnificent said:

It also seems to be that with the introduction of the new rule, a lot of pedestrians think that it applies everywhere and at any time

It does.

 

1 hour ago, Enzo the Magnificent said:

They simply rely on the driver to avoid them. 

They are required to, failure to do so which leads to injury or death of the pedestrian will have serious consequences for the driver.

 

1 hour ago, ckw said:

If I touch my phone while driving, major fine. This should also apply to any pedestrian using a pedestrian crossing - they can don't see or hear (esp. EVs) a car approaching. It would be very foolish to assume just because you have the right to cross that every driver is going to respect that right, or that they're paying attention.

Really? Fine a pedestrian who has priority and not the driver who is clearly in the wrong?.

 

1 hour ago, ckw said:

While on the highway code, a current bugbear of mine are cyclists who use the main road, holding up traffic, when there is a perfectly good cycle path running alongside. As a cyclist myself, I approve of the new priority rules where cyclist have no choice but to share the road with other vehicles. But it seems very one sided - to not use a designated cycle lane where available should also be an offence (though how it would be enforced is another matter).

Cyclists have as much right to be on the road as the motorist, irrespective of whether there's a cylce lane there or not. My experience of cycle lanes is similar to that of @Graham Boak, most are not fit for purpose, being little more than 18" of the road gutter deliniated by a white line, poorly maintained, no even surface, interspersed with gutters and manholes and strewn with loose detritus thrown aside by other vehicles. The new regs require at least 1.5m clearance when passing a cyclist - most road users comply with this when overtaking a cyclist in their own lane, but many don't if the cyclist is riding in this so-called cycle lane,

 

I'd agree with @bentwaters81tfw that you don't have a right of way, and I would advise caution when exercising your priority whatever mode of transport you are using.

 

8 minutes ago, ckw said:

A general principle of respect for other road users should be applied to all, not just motorists.

I'd agree with that, and that there are pedestrians and cyclists who don't respect the rules and don't seem to have any concern for their own safety, but that doesn't absolve the motorist from giving way when required and exercising due care and attention around other road users.

 

[Farmer matt]

Whilst I understand the principle of giving way to a pedestrian whose obvious intent is to cross the road, it now seems that we have to drive assuming that every pedestrian may suddenly turn 90 degrees and step out without a glance. In a way, that is what I was taught, assume everyone else is about to do something stupid, but some common sense needs to be applied.

If nothing else, regardless of whether the car SHOULD stop, it is irresponsible to simply push your child's buggy in to its path without ensuring the car HAS stopped.

There is a particular zebra crossing near here at which pedestrians do not even break their stride, never mind check if there is traffic approaching. Whatever the rights or wrongs of 'priority' getting hit by a car hurts. Sometimes a lot. Surely self preservation is more important than the moral high ground.

 

Matt

 

 

 

[treker_ed]

3 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

Highway code rule H2 - "At a junction you should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning."

She had priority, you should have stopped/waited.

She was NOT at a junction, She was NOT waiting to cross - she literally stepped out. She had given NO indication of wanting to cross the road as I had turned right into the road, driven about 20 meters, along the road and then she stepped out into the road, without any warning whatsoever! I literally had to swerve out of the way to avoid hitting her, because she decided to put herself, and her child in danger by just stepping out and not giving me any chance of being able to stop in time! That was the issue! I had already turned right INTO the road before she had started to cross the road. As she started to cross the road, she looked straight at me, saw me and still carried on crossing! She was at fault in that instance, not me! I literally COULD NOT HAVE STOPPED IN TIME due to the way she just stepped out into the road. All i could do was to swerve out of the way. It is only sheer luck no other vehicles were around at the time.

[ckw]

39 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

most are not fit for purpose, being little more than 18" of the road gutter delineated by a white line, poorly maintained, no even surface, interspersed with gutters and manholes and strewn with loose detritus thrown aside by other vehicles

That can be true, and in my mind they don't really count as cycle lanes. I'm thinking more  of those which are purpose built. My regular commute has long stretches with a cycle lane - probably 5ft wide, separated from the actually road by a section of grass. And still many cyclists don't use it despite it being in better condition than the actual road. 

 

Bottom line - no question that motorists have the greater responsibility, but I don't think this should mean that anyone else can do what they like with impunity.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[ckw]

Of course part of the blame lies with the planners. By where I live there is a roundabout. Turning left, you cannot see the road ahead (due to walls and hedges) until you have pretty much completed the turn. Less than 100 feet from that turn is a pedestrian crossing. So having looked right to check if you can turn safely, you have to immediately realise there is someone on (or waiting in the shadows) to cross and react appropriately. There have been accidents. Setting the crossing 100 feet further away or improving line of sight would solve the problem.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[jenko]

5 minutes ago, ckw said:

Of course part of the blame lies with the planners. By where I live there is a roundabout. Turning left, you cannot see the road ahead (due to walls and hedges) until you have pretty much completed the turn. Less than 100 feet from that turn is a pedestrian crossing. So having looked right to check if you can turn safely, you have to immediately realise there is someone on (or waiting in the shadows) to cross and react appropriately. There have been accidents. Setting the crossing 100 feet further away or improving line of sight would solve the problem.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

 

And of course if you are not local you would have no idea it was there.  Coming off a roundabout you naturally speed up to clear the said roundabout.  

 

Catch 22 

 

Dick

[Mike]

There are many instances of crossing places that are stupid and dangerous because of design or the want of people to find the quickest route, and a blanket rule that gives pedestrians right of way is probably pretty dangerous in these instances, particularly in the current society where everyone's always right and instantly angry.  People are so pig-headed that they'll go out of their way to cause issues because it's their right, never mind the common sense or danger of the situation.  Everyone needs to take a step back and return to driving, walking or cycling defensively, not offensively.  I don't drive as much as I used to, and I've noticed a massive deterioration in manners and consideration for others.  There's also a preponderance of expensive cars having the least consideration for others (in my experience), which says a lot.

 

People take the right of way part of the law and run with it (literally in some cases), conveniently ignoring the aspect where a person must take responsibility for their own safety.  If a car is moving at a good speed due to an empty road (within the speed limit of course), a pedestrian making a 90 degree turn as they pass might be their right, but it's not even slightly sensible.  It bothers me when blanket laws are introduced, and I foresee many rear-end crashes once the law makes it firmly into the public psyche, when people hurl themselves out with little to no warning, causing emergency braking by the vehicle making a turn.  There will probably be plenty of T-bone incidents too, when a finely timed turn results in the vehicle stopping on the wrong side of the road when a pedestrian darts out in front of them.  The reckless idiots will win of course.  It'll probably become a YouTube phenomenon, like the cyclists going round antagonising drivers for the views.

 

As a former cyclist, I am sick of others not obeying the rules giving the rest of us a bad name.  Cyclists, electric scooter and bike riders, especially the delivery people seem to have no issue with breaking the laws, and none of them seem to have a light between 'em, and dress in black for the most part.  Don't they want to live?

[Mike]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Secondly, cycle lanes may be present but are often not "perfectly good" but filled with sharp stones, gravel thrown up by passing cars and other potentially damaging material. 

The ones near me seem to be covered in dog making using them a constant slalom, and tricky to use.

 

Also, what's with runners using the road, running in the same direction as the traffic, when there is a perfectly serviceable path 3 feet to their left.  They're usually running slowly, with headphones, and often in dark clothing, and yet they get angry if you toot them to let them know you're there, their road awareness being precisely zero in the direction that counts.  If people want to end their lives, the least they can do is not involve others.

[Dave Swindell]

4 hours ago, treker_ed said:

She was NOT at a junction, She was NOT waiting to cross

Sorry, but that's not the impression your initial post gave me:-

16 hours ago, treker_ed said:

I had a parent with push chair just step out in front of me as I was turning into the road I live on. She literally just stepped out as I was turning.

I wasn't aiming to have a go at you personally, I was hoping to raise awareness of the recent changes in the Highway Code regarding pedestrians at junctions.

[treker_ed]

16 hours ago, treker_ed said:

Wasn't a case of she started to cross the road, and then I turned.... Nope, it was I turned the corner, drove a little, then she stepped out in front of me pushing said buggy, looking right at me.

So this sentence did not give it away....

 

And yes, you were having a go at me - you quoted me and then quoted a section of the Highway code in bold and also stated that I should have stopped and given way!

 

If you wanted to simply highlight a change in the highway code, all you had to do was "There has been a recent change which now requires drivers to give way to pedestrians wanting to cross at a junction, this is rule H2"

[Circloy]

On 15/11/2024 at 12:26, bentwaters81tfw said:

But, don't forget the unwritten rule. If there is a cycle path, ignore it and ride in the road. If there isn't a cycle path, ride on the pavement.

Many cyclists don't read the rules unwritten or not, that way they can't be accused of ignoring it.

[Julien]

See this with mums and prams a lot around here, just stepping of pavements into the road etc all the while phone in one hand pram in the other.

 

Saw a cyclist going along no hands on the handlebars texting on his phone!  unluckily for him a passing police car saw him as well 

 

As for cycle lanes, it does annoy me when they are not used, but locally it also annoys me when cars are parked on them so they cant be used.

[flyboy2610]

6 hours ago, Circloy said:

Many cyclists don't read the rules unwritten or not, that way they can't be accused of ignoring it.

 

[Toe]

As part of my job I unload lorries and to some extent see them back onto the loading bay via a small lane which is pedestrianized that can get quite busy with people and we always have to give way to pedestrians as you would expect, the driver knows he has to let pedestrians the right of way and he is not allowed to back himself on, we have 1 of us at the top and 1 at the bottom of the lorry to warn and request people to stop (we can't physically tell or actually physically stop them of course) and to stop the driver when you get some who just carry on walking past the drivers blind spot, I've had to shout at the driver and the pedestrian, telling the driver to stop (I can see where he is looking if I'm at the front of the lorry) and the pedestrian to be aware the driver  may not be able to see them as they are in his blind spot and it would appear there seems to be a rule that if you're pushing a pram then you don't notice the lorry, walk right into its blind spot whilst ensuring the pram is in front so the child gets hit first!!
Amazes me that, probably a bit extreme to say every pram or pushchair but at times it can get concerning that here is a 30 odd ton lorry which by the route he reverses has blindspots and you still get some who literally walk right up to the corner of the cab waiting for the lorry to get out of the way but the driver has no chance of seeing them, I've had one person who was doing this and where the lorry was it was by then blocking the lane but he couldn't move backwards or forwards as I wouldn't let him as this person just stood there next to the cab out of the drivers vision so I had to shout to get the person to move otherwise I wouldn't let the driver move to free up the lane so everyone else can be on their way - there's been times when I've been really wound up by how some seem to be bent on risking their own lives