Westland Lysander

[GiampieroSilvestri]

Why did Westland not build a Lysander MkII and why was the MkI 90 centimetres lower than the MkIII?

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

Edited November 9, 2024 by GiampieroSilvestri

[Graham Boak]

They (as in Westland) did build a Mk.II, with a Mercury engine.  The Frog model was this variant.  As to the difference in height, if not due to some change of aerial it is probably a transcription error.  Or tail-up vs  tail-down?

[Alan P]

How do you pronounce "Lysander"?

 

Is it "Liz-ANDer" or "Lie-Sander" or something else?

[Dave Swindell]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

They (as in Westland) did build a Mk.II, with a Mercury engine. 

Wrong way round Graham, the Mercury was in the I / III, the II had a Perseus

[colin]

20 minutes ago, Alan P said:

How do you pronounce "Lysander"?

 

Is it "Liz-ANDer" or "Lie-Sander" or something else?

Lie-sander 

[dogsbody]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

They (as in Westland) did build a Mk.II, with a Mercury engine.  The Frog model was this variant.  As to the difference in height, if not due to some change of aerial it is probably a transcription error.  Or tail-up vs  tail-down?

 

The Matchbox kit is a Mk.II with a Perseus engine.

 

 

 

Chris

[adey m]

The Mark 1 and Mark 3 engine cowlings had bulges over the cylinder heads, the Mark 2 engine cowling had no bulges  🙂

Edited November 9, 2024 by adey m

[adey m]

The FROG model is a Mark 1 and Mark 3 with Mercury engine and cowling bulges.

 

As Dogsbody said the Matchbox Lysander is a Mark 2 with Perseus engine and no cowling bulges.

 

Both of the old Airfix 1/72 Lysanders were the Mark 2 with no cowling bulges.

[adey m]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

They (as in Westland) did build a Mk.II, with a Mercury engine.  The Frog model was this variant.  As to the difference in height, if not due to some change of aerial it is probably a transcription error.  Or tail-up vs  tail-down?

The FROG Lysander is a Mark 1 and Mark 3.

[brewerjerry]

7 hours ago, adey m said:

 

Hi 

  the pavla was also a MK II kit 

   cheers

      jerry 

Edited November 10, 2024 by brewerjerry
wrong info removed by me

[Graham Boak]

I had several of the original Airfix Lysanders and don't recall any bulges, but back then it probably wouldn't.  I never had the Frog, hence my confusion.  I do however have the Airfix SOE, but never made it or I ... might ... have noticed.

 

Thanks for the corrections.

[Selwyn]

20 hours ago, GiampieroSilvestri said:

Why did Westland not build a Lysander MkII and why was the MkI 90 centimetres lower than the MkIII?

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

The bulges on the MkI and III were to cover  the push rod and valve gear of the Mercury engine. they were not needed for the Perseus on the MK II which was a sleeve valve engine, so no push rods or valves. The cowling on the MK II was shorter in length but the engine and cowling was moved slightly forward to preserve C  of G. The givaway apart from the bumps is the cowling flaps, on the MKI and III the cowling flaps were shaped (cut back) below and in front of the windscreen, but the Mk II cowling flaps did not have this feature as the cowling was more forward the flaps could lie flat against the fuselage. I am at the moment building a old hawk lysander MKII.  The engine/cowling is totally wrong on this kit, being a bumpless cowling with the same length as a MKI/III with the cut back cowling flaps of the MKI/III . The (poor) engine part of the kit also has pushrods so not a Perseus!

Selwyn

[Selwyn]

20 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

They (as in Westland) did build a Mk.II, with a Mercury engine.  The Frog model was this variant.  As to the difference in height, if not due to some change of aerial it is probably a transcription error.  Or tail-up vs  tail-down?

The Frog was a MKI/III but had incorrect MK II type cowl flaps. Matchbox did the MKII.

 

Selwyn

[GiampieroSilvestri]

Thank you very much!

To explain the question.I have found a list that shows the MkI and MkIII.It does not mention the MkII.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

Edited November 10, 2024 by GiampieroSilvestri

[Ossington 2]

Does anyone know what the difference in cowl length is? Is there a Mk. II extant somewhere that would allow measurement?

[Selwyn]

2 hours ago, Ossington 2 said:

Does anyone know what the difference in cowl length is? Is there a Mk. II extant somewhere that would allow measurement?

you might find this thread useful on this

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235001898-148-lysander-mk-ii-1960s-hawk-version-end-of-year-end-of-build-its-finished/

 

Selwyn

[stevehnz]

10 hours ago, Selwyn said:

Matchbox did the MKII.

Not disagreeing in any way but it seems strange that later Matchbox boxings, maybe from the Revell era, show a Lysander with the cowl bumps of the Mk I & III. Earlier boxings showed the correct bumpless cowl.

It certainly does nothing to help demystify which kits were which version. A shame that Airfix have done a 1/48 one, good for 1/48 modellers but its likely put the mockers on us 1/72 types getting one from Airfix seeing as they don't appear to scale their 1/48 kits down. I built the original Airfix one probably close to 60 years ago now, it must be time for another. The Dorawings one has little appeal for me after reading a couple of build threads for it.

Steve.

 

[MilneBay]

34 minutes ago, stevehnz said:

Not disagreeing in any way but it seems strange that later Matchbox boxings, maybe from the Revell era, show a Lysander with the cowl bumps of the Mk I & III. Earlier boxings showed the correct bumpless cowl.

It certainly does nothing to help demystify which kits were which version. A shame that Airfix have done a 1/48 one, good for 1/48 modellers but its likely put the mockers on us 1/72 types getting one from Airfix seeing as they don't appear to scale their 1/48 kits down. I built the original Airfix one probably close to 60 years ago now, it must be time for another. The Dorawings one has little appeal for me after reading a couple of build threads for it.

Steve.

 

 

Isn't that the boxing done when Revell bought the moulds?

 

I admit to being a bit of a Lysander tragic and I have the Airfix (second issue), Frog and Matchbox 1/72 offerings on the shelf. Also the 1/48 Testors/Hawk as well.

 

Of all of them I found the Matchbox to be a nice little easy kit. 

 

 

[brewerjerry]

1 hour ago, stevehnz said:

Not disagreeing in any way but it seems strange that later Matchbox boxings, maybe from the Revell era, show a Lysander with the cowl bumps of the Mk I & III. Earlier boxings showed the correct bumpless cowl.

It certainly does nothing to help demystify which kits were which version. A shame that Airfix have done a 1/48 one, good for 1/48 modellers but its likely put the mockers on us 1/72 types getting one from Airfix seeing as they don't appear to scale their 1/48 kits down. I built the original Airfix one probably close to 60 years ago now, it must be time for another. The Dorawings one has little appeal for me after reading a couple of build threads for it.

Steve.

 

Hi

     link to sprue photos here 

 

cheers 

   jerry 

[dogsbody]

It's not like all kit makers have always had perfect boxart and correct painting instructions!

 

 

 

Chris

[stevehnz]

48 minutes ago, brewerjerry said:

 link to sprue photos here 

Not many bumps on the cowl.

Steve.

[PattheCat]

1 hour ago, stevehnz said:

Not many bumps on the cowl.

Steve.

 

I couldn't remember if the 1/72 Matchbox I built in the seventies had cowling bulges so I went to take a look at Scalemates and recognized the original boxing immediately. Correct boxart on that one.

I wish the parts for a Mk. II and special ops will be included in the new Airfix or at least in the future.

Also would like them to issue a 1/72 one for those who prefer the gentleman's scale Steve @stevehnz. Me I'd also have very happily welcomed one, even if 1/48 is my fav scale. Would have "encouraged" me to buy more (little boxes, little price honey)😁.

[stevehnz]

5 hours ago, PattheCat said:

Also would like them to issue a 1/72 one for those who prefer the gentleman's scale Steve

Quite so Pat & thanks for helping to spread the positive vibes. I only have one Lysander kit in stock, an ancient Frog kit that arrived sans clear parts, I'm hoping I can adapt a Falcon canopy for it, these are optimised for the Matchbox kit apparently & I've no idea if this would be doable. Perhaps I need to do something with it to persuade the modelling Gods we need a main stream 1/72 one.   (Sorry Dora.  )

Steve.

[Charlie Hugo]

10 hours ago, stevehnz said:

Not disagreeing in any way but it seems strange that later Matchbox boxings, maybe from the Revell era, show a Lysander with the cowl bumps of the Mk I & III. Earlier boxings showed the correct bumpless cowl.

It certainly does nothing to help demystify which kits were which version. A shame that Airfix have done a 1/48 one, good for 1/48 modellers but its likely put the mockers on us 1/72 types getting one from Airfix seeing as they don't appear to scale their 1/48 kits down. I built the original Airfix one probably close to 60 years ago now, it must be time for another. The Dorawings one has little appeal for me after reading a couple of build threads for it.

Steve.

 

I need to dig my kits out of storage but IIRC when the Matchbox kit was released it was commented that the cowling had the bumps of a Mercury motor version BUT had a Perseus engine, the frog and Airfix kit (IIRC) whilst having Mercury motors had smooth cowlings. Don't recall if any comment was made back then about cowling length. I will need to check kit reviews from that era for more info.

 

[StevieD]

On 11/9/2024 at 5:02 PM, Alan P said:

How do you pronounce "Lysander"?

 

Is it "Liz-ANDer" or "Lie-Sander" or something else?

Interesting point on pronunciation. 

 

Someone posted a Coastal Command short film from 1943 a while ago. In the crew of of Sunderland (well actors) refer to ‘Beaufighters’ but not as one word. They pronounce it as two distinct words – ‘Beau Fighter’