"Best" WW1 British Tank Kit 1/35 ?

[Tijuana Taxi]

In your esteemed opinion what is the best WW1 Tank kit 1/35 available in the UK

"Best"  in this case meaning nicely fitting/ ease of construction plus good detail without needing add ons.

Before my carer break from modelling I purchased  a WW1 British trench and figures aim was to to make a small diorama

Totally forgot I had them until found whilst looking for something else I stored in a safe place.

 

Looking for and buying stuff kept my mind from wandering  and dwelling on the possible consequences of my wife's cancer (eradicated, thankfully)

Having tended to blank out those two dreadful years means I also forgot about some of the purchased items.

So now its time to have a go at all the ideas i thought of then and like the thought of this one

After all that babbling on can I have your suggestions please

 

Thanks

 

 

[MikeR]

Sounds like the Tamiya Mk IV may be your best option for ease of build, although the motorisation does bump the price up. Review HERE from the Missing-Lynx site. Failing that there have been releases by Takom for the Mk I and Mk IV whilst Meng Model have done the Mk V. Emhar also did a Mk IV, although that's a relatively old kit.

 

If you want to go for one of the French vehicles, HobbyBoss have done both the Schneider and the Saint Chamond in several versions. Takom also did early and late versions of the Saint Chamond. IIRC, I think Meng did the FT-17.

 

Availability and prices are going to vary, depending on where you can source them. KingKit may be an option for second hand.

 

Mike.

[Tijuana Taxi]

Thanks Mike, I do like the look of the Tamiya, but the motorisation bit doesn't interest me at all. I'll check out the others you mention and see if I can find any reviews of them.

[AndyK2479]

The Meng Whippet is a nice little kit.

 

I've got one in the stash and have built one previously. I'm a relative newcomer to modelling and I found the Whippet a really nice build.

[Tijuana Taxi]

1 hour ago, AndyK2479 said:

The Meng Whippet is a nice little kit.

 

I've got one in the stash and have built one previously. I'm a relative newcomer to modelling and I found the Whippet a really nice build.

Thanks Andy, that might well fit the bill, I will investigate further

Not too pricey and could look good in a little diorama.

[Lothian man]

One35scale.com has the Tamiya Mark IV at a fairly substantial discount, almost a quarter off. The motorisation doesn't affect the model's externals so far as I can see.

 

Also a discount on the Meng Whippet.

 

They also have both of the Meng Renault FT kits at a discount - the other is rather cheaper anyway ("FT-17" both are called). This is a very nice kit whichever version one buys, but beware that one version doesn't include WW1 markings. And the variants are wrong for the few that the British had. 

 

Not the owner, just a happy customer. 

[Tijuana Taxi]

1 hour ago, Lothian man said:

One35scale.com has the Tamiya Mark IV at a fairly substantial discount, almost a quarter off. The motorisation doesn't affect the model's externals so far as I can see.

 

Also a discount on the Meng Whippet.

 

They also have both of the Meng Renault FT kits at a discount - the other is rather cheaper anyway ("FT-17" both are called). This is a very nice kit whichever version one buys, but beware that one version doesn't include WW1 markings. And the variants are wrong for the few that the British had. 

 

Not the owner, just a happy customer. 

Thanks for the heads up, I'll take a look and decide what I want to get.

[Kingsman]

The Tamiya MkIV, despite the motorisation, is the easiest build and has snap-together ready to assemble tracks.  But only comes in Male form.  You can omit or ignore most of the motorisation.

 

Takom's Mk IVs are nice, IMO better detailed than Tamiya but a bit more complex to build.  Their original Male-only and Female-only kits came with dreadful multi-part links, and as far as I can tell still do.  They later released their ready-to-clip tracks separately.  The Mk IV 2-in-1 kit has the later better tracks and will make Male or Female.  The Tadpole tank is a waste of time as only a handful were converted and none were ever used.

 

Meng's Mk V is the only show in town.  Likewise Takom's Mk Is, which come with the better tracks.  I don't think there is much to choose netween Takom and Meng Medium As.

 

Don't fall into the trap of painting your tank green - they were not - or assuming they all had the red/white stripes - they did not - or slathering it with rust.  So if you want a stripey one you will need a Mk IV or MK V.  Mk Is in France were mostly camouflaged.  In the UK and Palestine they were not.

 

The serial numbers of all, and unit numbers names and histories of many, WW1 tanks are known and can be found here.  https://sites.google.com/site/landships/home

[Tijuana Taxi]

21 minutes ago, Kingsman said:

The Tamiya MkIV, despite the motorisation, is the easiest build and has snap-together ready to assemble tracks.  But only comes in Male form.  You can omit or ignore most of the motorisation.

 

Takom's Mk IVs are nice, IMO better detailed than Tamiya but a bit more complex to build.  Their original Male-only and Female-only kits came with dreadful multi-part links, and as far as I can tell still do.  They later released their ready-to-clip tracks separately.  The Mk IV 2-in-1 kit has the later better tracks and will make Male or Female.  The Tadpole tank is a waste of time as only a handful were converted and none were ever used.

 

Meng's Mk V is the only show in town.  Likewise Takom's Mk Is, which come with the better tracks.  I don't think there is much to choose netween Takom and Meng Medium As.

 

Don't fall into the trap of painting your tank green - they were not - or assuming they all had the red/white stripes - they did not - or slathering it with rust.  So if you want a stripey one you will need a Mk IV or MK V.  Mk Is in France were mostly camouflaged.  In the UK and Palestine they were not.

 

The serial numbers of all, and unit numbers names and histories of many, WW1 tanks are known and can be found here.  https://sites.google.com/site/landships/home

Thank you for that most informative reply, I am quite tempted by the Tamiya MKIV, reviews all seem to rate it highly.

Other candidate is the  Meng Whippet, it might suit what I had in mind a bit better.

 

Strange how they are always depicted as Green, I recall many years ago that the Centurion was also nearly always depicted that way.

I currently have a Tram build on the go, but this will likely be my next project, decisions, decisions?

[Kingsman]

Centurions did spend most of their lives in plain green, initally SCC15 then Deep Bronze Green until IRR Green/black was introduced in their late years.

 

Painting WW1 equipment green is just lack of understanding and an assumption that army kit was green.  And copying incorrectly painted preserved examples, which suffer from the same problem.  Strong greens were hard for anyone to make in WW1 because of pigment shortages, notably chrome oxide.  Same in WW2 as it happens.  It has emerged that the MkI tanks might - and I stress might - have left the factoty in Fosters commercial pre-war Brunswick green because the contract did not specify a colour and they had the pigments to make some.  But they only built the 75 Males, the 75 Females being built by Metropolitan.   Presumably in Service Colour, but if their contract didn't specify either then who knows?  In service all were painted in the Solomon scheme except for the 15 retained in the UK for training, 8 of which then went to Palestine and appeared by then to be Service Colour.  Mk IVs, Vs and AFAIK Medium As were all finished in Service Colour.

 

Service Colour was a greenish brown, somewhat like the WW2 SCC2 brown but a bit greener.  Somewhere between SCC2 and Khaki Green 3.  This is the only known surviving original paint in the UK, on a factory model at Bovington.

[Tijuana Taxi]

33 minutes ago, Kingsman said:

Centurions did spend most of their lives in plain green, initally SCC15 then Deep Bronze Green until IRR Green/black was introduced in their late years.

 

Painting WW1 equipment green is just lack of understanding and an assumption that army kit was green.  And copying incorrectly painted preserved examples, which suffer from the same problem.  Strong greens were hard for anyone to make in WW1 because of pigment shortages, notably chrome oxide.  Same in WW2 as it happens.  It has emerged that the MkI tanks might - and I stress might - have left the factoty in Fosters commercial pre-war Brunswick green because the contract did not specify a colour and they had the pigments to make some.  But they only built the 75 Males, the 75 Females being built by Metropolitan.   Presumably in Service Colour, but if their contract didn't specify either then who knows?  In service all were painted in the Solomon scheme except for the 15 retained in the UK for training, 8 of which then went to Palestine and appeared by then to be Service Colour.  Mk IVs, Vs and AFAIK Medium As were all finished in Service Colour.

 

Service Colour was a greenish brown, somewhat like the WW2 SCC2 brown but a bit greener.  Somewhere between SCC2 and Khaki Green 3.  This is the only known surviving original paint in the UK, on a factory model at Bovington.

More interesting facts that I knew nothing about, so thanks for enlightening me.

I have seen a Mark IV Female in a Lincoln museum, that is a Khaki colour.

If I were to go for the Whippet am I right in thinking that would be a shade of Brown?

I understand they have one at Bovington that in that colour.

Edited November 8, 2024 by Tijuana Taxi

[Kingsman]

The Bovington Medium A, AKA unofficially Whippet, is green and that may be the source of the green idea.  It isn't original colour. but I haven't been able to find any peeking areas of what might be an original colour under the repaints.  It has been messed-about with too.  The front right engine cover panel is a replacement and the left side of the cab has been removed at some time because it is now bolted on rather than riveted.

 

The only green paint in the Handbook for Artificers 1915 edition is a Brunswick Green, a very dark green which I venture could not be made in WW1 because it relied on chrome yellow and prussian blue by this time, copper chloride having passed out of use..  Notwithstanding the possibility of Fosters still being able to make a quantity of a similar colour in 1916 from left over pigments.  There was no mix for the mid greens commonly seen on models or anything like the A.MIG 074 "Green Moss for most of the UK vehicles during WW I", which is just completely wrong: too green.  The MiG Ammo British and German WW1 AFV set is OK for German Buntfarbenanstrich but useless for anything British.  They show a green Whippet.

 

The AK Interactive 3G British WW1 AFV modulation set isn't bad if you like that sort of artistic unrealistic style, but none of the 4 individual colours are right.  Their older 3-colour set might be better: AK4042 Khaki Brown Base isn't bad.  IIRC Mike Starmer suggested SCC2 with some Khaki Green 3 being in the right sort of area.

[Tijuana Taxi]

6 hours ago, Kingsman said:

The Bovington Medium A, AKA unofficially Whippet, is green and that may be the source of the green idea.  It isn't original colour. but I haven't been able to find any peeking areas of what might be an original colour under the repaints.  It has been messed-about with too.  The front right engine cover panel is a replacement and the left side of the cab has been removed at some time because it is now bolted on rather than riveted.

 

The only green paint in the Handbook for Artificers 1915 edition is a Brunswick Green, a very dark green which I venture could not be made in WW1 because it relied on chrome yellow and prussian blue by this time, copper chloride having passed out of use..  Notwithstanding the possibility of Fosters still being able to make a quantity of a similar colour in 1916 from left over pigments.  There was no mix for the mid greens commonly seen on models or anything like the A.MIG 074 "Green Moss for most of the UK vehicles during WW I", which is just completely wrong: too green.  The MiG Ammo British and German WW1 AFV set is OK for German Buntfarbenanstrich but useless for anything British.  They show a green Whippet.

 

The AK Interactive 3G British WW1 AFV modulation set isn't bad if you like that sort of artistic unrealistic style, but none of the 4 individual colours are right.  Their older 3-colour set might be better: AK4042 Khaki Brown Base isn't bad.  IIRC Mike Starmer suggested SCC2 with some Khaki Green 3 being in the right sort of area.

Thanks again for the informative reply, appears to be nothing definitive for the Whippet then.

If my research doesn't turn anything up I will go with a some form of khaki, brown, green, olive drab combination.

Still might go for the Tamiya, haven't made my mind up yet.

[SimonL]

I completed the Meng Medium A earlier this year.

 

I brush painted the main colour with Vallejo 70.988 Khaki. Quite a fun build. Build thread is here (with some very useful advice from various folk) if it helps: 

 

[Tijuana Taxi]

7 minutes ago, SimonL said:

I completed the Meng Medium A earlier this year.

 

I brush painted the main colour with Vallejo 70.988 Khaki. Quite a fun build. Build thread is here (with some very useful advice from various folk) if it helps: 

 

Thanks Simon, nice one and will definitely have a read of your thread.

[Kingsman]

Mine ended up a bit too green.  I hadn't looked into things properly back then.

 

Likewise my Mk IV Male.  Much too green.

 

Mk IV Female is a bit too brown.  I've learned things since then.

 

[Tijuana Taxi]

Do you think this colour is completely wrong or heading in the right direction.

https://www.alamy.com/wwi-mark-iv-tank-at-the-museum-of-lincolnshire-life-lincoln-lincolnshire-uk-built-by-the-metropolitan-carriage-works-in-birmingham-in-1917-image265090243.html

I believe there is also a "Whippet" in a Brussels museum, probably the one in Parcdu Cinquantenaire. Next time I'm there I'll have a look,  often have time to kill between train connections.

[Kingsman]

Flirt II is a many-times repaint, having gone from the battlefields to being Gloucester's presentation tank for 20 years then going back to Bovington for another 43 years before being loaned to the Museum of Lincolnshire Life.  Its current identity isn't even correct.  It is in fact 2743, previously D42 Daphne.  Served with D Battalion in August 1917 (3rd Ypres?).

 

Nothing in the UK is a correct colour comparison other than the Mk VIII model I posted earlier.  Despite having the only original colour comparator in the UK, Bovington's tanks are all different and incorrect colours.  If you want surviving original colour then you need to look across the Channel to the Royal Army Museum in Brussels.  Their Mk IV 4093 Lodestar II and their Medium A A347 Firefly are still in original paint, untouched in 106 years.  However, online photos taken with different devices in different light still show a range of slightly different colours.

[Tijuana Taxi]

I think that is the same museum in Brussels that I mentioned. I'll take a few photos next time I'm there. Probably next month on my way to Berlin via Eurostar and DB.

All this research adds to the enjoyment, will definitely get my moneysworth from this next project. 

[KingCobra]

From my own experience I can warmly recommend the Meng Mark V female. Uncomplicated construction, almost no filler required.

[Kingsman]

2 hours ago, KingCobra said:

From my own experience I can warmly recommend the Meng Mark V female. Uncomplicated construction, almost no filler required.

But only any good for 1918.  The first Mk Vs weren't delivered until January 1918 and weren't issued until April, to 2nd and 8th Battalions.  First action with 8th and 13th Battalions at the Battle of Hamel on 4th July, by which time 8 Battalions had them. 

 

After the Spring Offensive was broken and the headlong German retreat for The Last Hundred Days began, Allied forces were advancing so quickly that the heavy tanks could not keep up and were increasingly left behind.  And there was little work for them.  The faster Medium As were more useful and armoured cars make a major comeback.  Even the Cavalry finally see some use.  The most-used tanks in this period were the Supply Tanks, taking supplies to forward positions.  Mks I, II and III were all retired by now.  Some Mk IVs were converted to supply tanks but 410 new-build unarmed Mk IV Supply tanks were built, so useful were they.  Indeed, 6 Companies were formed just to operate supply tanks with 24 each.  The new-builds can be recognised by having flat-fronted sponsons without any weapon openings, as distinct from having the angled front with openings plated-over.

 

I wish that Takom had ignored the Tadpole, of which only 6 conversions were done - 2 of which were Mk Vs anyway.  Their version with the Stokes mortar was a unique single vehicle that never left Dollis Hill.  They should instead have done the fully-lengthened Mk V*, of which 700 were ordered and 645 built.  These were used by 3 British and 2 US Battalions.

[YorkshireT]

On 07/11/2024 at 19:33, Lothian man said:

They also have both of the Meng Renault FT kits at a discount - the other is rather cheaper anyway ("FT-17" both are called). This is a very nice kit whichever version one buys, but beware that one version doesn't include WW1 markings.

@Tijuana Taxi For what it's worth (not much 😉), I just bought the Meng FT-17 riveted version (the cheaper of the two) for a first foray into modelling armour, and specifically WW1 tanks (only having experience of a few 1/72 WW2 aircraft).

 

Long story short...upon opening, very impressed by the contents and looking forward to getting around to it. However, the WW1 version is a US model from the very end of the war.

[Kingsman]

3 hours ago, YorkshireT said:

However, the WW1 version is a US model from the very end of the war.

A French version would not be any different apart from any markings, and the US carried on with the French marking scheme.  The tanks were provided from French stocks and were used as they came.  As were the Mk Vs provided by the UK.  France used a wide range of colours and schemes on its tanks with little attempt at standardisation.  And of course the WW1 problem of no codification of colours.

 

On a point of order this tank was never ever called the FT-17.  That is a modern invention.  The Renault Factory code was FT: Renault FT.  To the French army is was the automitrailleuse à chenilles Renault FT modèle 1917 or char mitrailleur Renault FT modèle 1917.  The US-built version was called the Light Tank M1917.  None of these saw WW1 action.  The designations have become conflated.

 

For my FT I copied the simpler 2-colour scheme of the Weald Foundation's restored example which they believe to be correct from paint layer archaeology. 

  

 

My Schneider CA char d'assault is somewhat zanier.  I have a St Chamond to do too.  Get the Hobbyboss, not the Takom - whose tracks will sap all of your sanity and it's more expensive anyway.  You can get the Hobbyboss versions - they do 3 - for under £20.  Bargain.  It's big, too.  And was electric drive.

Edited November 13, 2024 by Kingsman
correction

[Kingsman]

Returning to the question of colour, an episode of Digging For Britain was aired tonight.  Probably an old one as the dig in question was in 2018.  They were excavating near Bullecourt looking for parts of Mk II male tank 796 which took part in the fighting around the village in April 1917 and was destroyed.  Several parts were recovered including a partial track plate.  The programme then cut to an indoor location where a track plate was shown - but very clearly not the one recovered from the site as it was more complete and in very much better condition.

 

Two colours could clearly be seen.  The red oxide primer and what was very clearly a Brunswick Green, described by the expert as British Racing Green.  Which is interesting as the Mk I and Mk II Males were all built by Fosters.  Which circles us back to the as yet un-evidenced suggestion that Fosters may have been painting these early tanks in their commercial Brunswick Green, lacking any other direction as to colour.

 

This is 796 photographed at the time, and it certainly doesn't look like a dark green.  The tracks, however, are darker.  With images like this it is easy to see why some people have thought some WW1 tanks to be grey.

[Tijuana Taxi]

Just bought the Tamiya Mark IV Male for £59.99

Probably won't bother with any motorised parts that are not necessary for the build.

Thanks everyone for your input