‘Yoxford Boys’ P-51B/C camouflage colours’

[DrumBum]

Hi all,

 

I am just about to start painting my first natural metal finish build, a Tamiya 1/48 P-51B Mustang.

 

On my test piece sprayed with Alclad I applied some of the kit decals but found they were very thick and not really acceptable.

 

So I ordered Bullseye Model Decals 48036 sheet P-51B/C  Yoxford Boys #7. Fingers crossed they will be better than the Tamiya decals.

 

I have viewed the decal instructions online but cannot figure out the paint scheme on aircraft such as Joan,  Flying Panther etc. Mostly metal finish but RAF Dark Green on top of the fuselage and tail. 

 

Does the Dark Green include the topside of the wings or are they metal also?

 

I have found several photos of each plane but cannot find any that include the wing upper surface.

 

Cheers for now.

 

 

Edited September 14 by DrumBum

[SafetyDad]

This might help. From Airfoil Vol 2 by Steve Sheflin. Admittedly they are D models, but they show the camo clearly. I'll dig out my references on the Yoxford boys and see what there is for B and C models.

 

 

SD

[SafetyDad]

Having reviewed your chosen decal sheet, I think I am better informed about what you're looking for. You seem to be interested in the few P-51B/C models with the raised camo line along the fuselage, such as this?

 

 

I think I can see the dividing line between lower and upper surface colours on the leading edge.

 

Pic from here:

 

 

which in itself takes us into interesting territory. The author, Merle Olmstead. was a Master Mechanic and Crew Chief for the unit. He also painted the profile on the cover. I feel @Troy Smith sitting on my shoulder, but perhaps, in this case, the artwork may have increased credibility and validity given the pedigree of the artist? Olmstead is very clear that the uppersurfaces are painted in Dark Green. He also painted this

 

 

and finally, this pilot has been kind enough to park his aircraft so that we can see the uppersurfaces clearly

 

 

Now this is a P-51 with an all-over paintjob, so not quite the same. But Olmsted refers in the text to the change in camo when the 'raised dividing line' was introduced (my term, not his). He describes how the paint on the fuselage sides was removed to reveal a NMF finish, but all other paint was left.

 

So this seems to support the painted upper wings theory. 

 

However...

 

Does this also mean that the wing undersurfaces were left in Neutral Grey? Given the design of the wing, plus the labour involved in stripping the paint, they may well have remained in Neutral Grey.

 

I'm not a P-51 expert, and there will be others here who are better informed, so, having set the hare away, let's hear from them.

 

SD

 

Oh, and a clear picture of Joan for you

 

 

 

 

 

[SafetyDad]

@DrumBum you might want to change the title of this post to guide contributors. Something like ‘Yoxford Boys’ P-51B/C camouflage colours’ 

[DrumBum]

On 9/13/2024 at 8:36 AM, SafetyDad said:

@DrumBum you might want to change the title of this post to guide contributors. Something like ‘Yoxford Boys’ P-51B/C camouflage colours’ 

Safety 

 

thanks v much for the info provided, very informative. 
 

So I guess I shall be employing more dark green paint than first thought. 
 

cheers for now

[Toryu]

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235078458-uve-had-it-‒-the-end-of-my-mustang-line/

 

See notes at the end of my post.

Michael

[SafetyDad]

Excellent build and post Michael! I have a passing interest in these aircraft, but you've really done the work.

 

Just to satisfy my curiousity - do you think the wing undersurfaces are NMF?

 

SD

 

 

[Toryu]

@SafetyDad Yes, quite sure. Those serial numbers were delivered in NM with only the uppersides camouflaged in the field. I believe the later D-models were fully camouflaged in preparation for a potential move to the continent.

[Duggy]

Some photos can be found here --   http://axis-and-allies-paintworks.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?id=18780

[DrumBum]

Thanks again for the feedback.

 

I have decided to go ahead and complete the model as P-51B Flying Panther.

 

As a first time NMF builder, I have some questions prior to taking the plunge if anyone has the time:

 

1. Is there a preference in the order of painting the green and Alclad silver? My initial thought was silver the entire plane and then mask off the silver to paint the upper green color. But my concern is the tape may dull or remove the silver?

Perhaps the other way around would be prudent

 

2. In my limited experience of using Alclad (jet exhausts etc) the flat clear coat following decals tends to make the silver look dull and almost grey. Is there a way to avoid this?

 

3. Mustang related, is the P-51B and C model externally the same? 

 

Regards

 

DB

Edited September 16 by DrumBum

[Chuck1945]

1) I don’t have any recent experience with Alclad but low tack tape such as Tamiya shouldn’t be an issue

2) Why apply a flat coat over the Alclad? If the decals are too glossy, just flat coat them with a brush. I don’t do many NMF aircraft, but when I do, gloss and flat coats are omitted.

3) The B models were produced at the Englewood CA plant and C models at the Dallas TX plant. The strake on the tail fin leading edge was first introduced on the C models but could be retrofitted to B models as well. Other than that, they were similar.

[DrumBum]

On 9/16/2024 at 8:26 PM, Chuck1945 said:

1) I don’t have any recent experience with Alclad but low tack tape such as Tamiya shouldn’t be an issue

2) Why apply a flat coat over the Alclad? If the decals are too glossy, just flat coat them with a brush. I don’t do many NMF aircraft, but when I do, glass and flat coats are omitted.

3) The B models were produced at the Englewood CA plant and C models at the Dallas TX plant. The strake on the tail fin leading edge was first introduced on the C models but could be retrofitted to B models as well. Other than that, they were similar.

 

thanks for the input.

 

I indeed masked off the NMF to then apply the green and had no issues at all with marking the NMF with tape.

 

One final question regarding the radio fit to the P-51B. Its hard to determine from photos if they all had the radio antenna wire from the spine to the fin. Was this air frame dependent or should I go ahead and (try) to install fine antenna wire?

 

cheers and thanks as always.

 

 

[Chuck1945]

I’ve not studied pictures, but by the time the P-51B/C were in service in the ETO, the radios were primarily VHF, the antenna in the mast or whip antenna were sufficient.

[Work In Progress]

On 9/15/2024 at 8:32 AM, Toryu said:

hose serial numbers were delivered in NM with only the uppersides camouflaged in the field.

The question was about the lower surface of the wings. though. Every Mustang delivered with a natural metal fuselage was delivered with aluminium-painted wings, top and bottom surfaces not with natural metal wings

[Work In Progress]

On 9/16/2024 at 10:26 PM, DrumBum said:

. In my limited experience of using Alclad (jet exhausts etc) the flat clear coat following decals tends to make the silver look dull and almost grey. Is there a way to avoid this?

Two suggestions

1. don't use a flat coat, use a satin coat. 

2. once out of the factory, the skin of any unpainted natural metal aircraft which is parked outdoors in the UK, as these were, rapidly becomes "dull and almost grey".  

[Toryu]

On 26/09/2024 at 14:43, Work In Progress said:

bottom surfaces not with natural metal wings

 

True - the outer panels were aluminium-painted.