Spitfire & flare(s)

[rafju]

Dear All

Although I learned a lot from watching at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s213rXJi0Uo

I still don't have all the answer with the first Spitfire' Mk.

I'm sure you can of any help and thank you for that.

After reading other sources, at the beginning, there were two ways with throwing flares, one used directly by the pilot with the manual pistol and one other for a "lighning flare", and so there was a hole under the back fuse ( black arrow added to the drawing below). Was this port covered ? and with what?

And how these "lightning flare" were ejected?

 

Many thanks for any info

Raphael

 

 

Edited September 10 by rafju

[BS_w]

 

 

Found in Mk I, IIa&b manuals

 

[rafju]

Woohoo! thank you very much "B.S" my friend 😉 

[Orso]

Did the Spit fire have both one and two shutes? When I build my ASR-Spit I added two: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235084576-spitfire-asr-mkiic/ and I notice that Kotare have two in their kit but the drawings here show only one.

 

[Orso]

Sorry

When I read the text from the manual more closely I noticed this: "On later aeroplanes, only one flare is carried" so that answer my question.

[PeterR]

There were initially two flare tubes in the Spitfire Mk I, mounted behind the pilot's seat. There were doors in the lower fuselage through which the flares were discharged. The forward flare tube was removed around mid-June, from about Spitfire Mk I R6761.

 

The Plessey flare discharger that you would have seen in the video was mounted in the lower fuselage about midway between the wing trailing edge and the tail plane leading edge. The aperture was usually covered by a piece of doped fabric, painted sky. This was later moved to the spine in the Mk V, and is noticeable as its fabric patch was usually doped in red.

[rafju]

Thank you very much Peter

now what is needed are some picture from the outside "skin" of these Sipt, because it seems that these ports are often forgotten 😉

[PeterR]

14 hours ago, rafju said:

Thank you very much Peter

now what is needed are some picture from the outside "skin" of these Sipt, because it seems that these ports are often forgotten 😉

There have been several posts on this forum for these  - if you do a search, you should find them. I did a pattern for these, but Hobby Host have removed the images. How nice of them.... 😒

[rafju]

Thanks Peter , i've found, and mostly with the help of Björn allias "Orso".

Thank you very much guys.

https://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/supermarine_spitfire_mk1a_p9444/images/supermarine_spitfire_mk1a_p9444_33_of_37.jpg

[PeterR]

11 hours ago, rafju said:

Thanks Peter , i've found, and mostly with the help of Björn allias "Orso".

Thank you very much guys.

https://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/supermarine_spitfire_mk1a_p9444/images/supermarine_spitfire_mk1a_p9444_33_of_37.jpg

 

Nice shot - note, that is the rear door. This plane is a later version, with the forward tube omitted. There would be second door forward of this, located more centrally, on earlier Mk Is.

 

Edit - written without referring to my own info!

Edited September 13 by PeterR

[rafju]

1 hour ago, PeterR said:

 

Nice shot - note, that is the rear door. This plane is a later version, with the forward tube omitted. There would be second door forward of this, located more centrally, on earlier Mk Is.

but 

 

and with this indentation (red arrow), I can imagine, and please, let me guess and this is me only 😉 because I haven't found any period photos yet with both tube flare of the early period

[PeterR]

8 minutes ago, rafju said:

but 

 

and with this indentation (red arrow), I can imagine, and please, let me guess and this is me only 😉 because I haven't found any period photos yet with both tube flare of the early period

 

 

Correct - sorry, I wrote without referring to my own information!

 

This is strange, because the information I have is that the forward chute was removed. This shows the opposite. 

[BS_w]

 Mk II P8131 AQoC, 276sqn

the door are open to load dinghies

[rafju]

@BS_w Wow, love that Sosthène, Thanks a lot!

 

@PeterR

 

Peter

and now looking at the Kotare model, they are both present but they did the hatches in relief, we can imagine this is due to process moulding easier with, and it's very easy for us to scribe them using the outline: clever idea!

Kotare detail:

Edited September 13 by rafju

[Orso]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Supermarine_Spitfire_Ia_'N3200_QV'_(G-CFGJ)_(33691989874).jpg

I finally found the pic that shows two hatches. I had problems finding it again.

[rafju]

Wow! perfect Björn! thanks , 

The study is progressing better and better.

[PeterR]

11 hours ago, PeterR said:

 

Correct - sorry, I wrote without referring to my own information!

 

This is strange, because the information I have is that the forward chute was removed. This shows the opposite. 

 

Okay, had a bit more time to devote to this thread. P9444, as posted above from the Science Museum, would have originally had TWO flare chutes when first manufactured. Somewhere along the way, the rear most door has been eliminated. It suffered a crash landing in June 1940 so maybe repairs saw the elimination of the door then? Purely speculation of course.

[BS_w]

 "mod 185" removal flare tube, will be approved on 30.8.40
it does not indicate the removal of a tube (rear), but of tube in general,

 

"mod 584" To remove flare tube control and botton door issued AP 1565A-Z.36-W 16.4.42....
on future aircraft or existing?

[gingerbob]

Finally had a chance to (remembered to) check these:

 

Mod 185 first suggested 24 Jan 40, "cleared" 1 July "To delete one parachute flare tube".  Applies to Mk.I/II, but what else would it have at that time?

 

Mod 584 first suggested 10 Mar 42 (I think) "cleared" 25 Sept 42 "To delete flare, control and to reposition the oxygen economiser" applies to Mks V, VI, PR.IV.

 

Both are "Class 4B" if that helps anyone- I think I once knew what the classes were, but...