Interesting find...........Two seat Mustang.

[Etiennedup]

 

Yesterday I came  across this (new to me) image in the IWM photo archive with the  following caption;

"P-51 Mustangs (VF-4) of the 4th Fighter Group, (CV-Q) of the 359th Fighter Group, (LC-D) of the 20th Fighter Group, (LH-V) of the 353rd Fighter group and (C5-Q) of the 357th Fighter Group, with a P-38 Lightning at Debden. Handwritten on slide:" Line of P51s E. Richie "

 

Wanting to know more, I did a Google search that yielded this on Reddit;

 

JCFalkenberglll

OP•7mo ago

P-51 Mustangs (VF-4) [42-106894] of the 4th Fighter Group, (CV-Q) of the 359th Fighter Group, (LC-D) of the 20th Fighter Group, (LH-V) of the 353rd Fighter group and (C5-Q) of the 357th Fighter Group, with a F-5E (P-38 Lightning) at Debden. Taken on 23 March 1945 by Edward Richie. Information from Mark Richie: "The 65th Fighter Wing had a meeting of all Group COs at Debden about the up coming Rhine River crossing operations. Pretty neat shots. Roger [Freeman] and I puzzled over the NMF C model with the Malcolm hood. D models were in all groups by then so finding a "new" C model with and Malcolm hood is kind of odd. No serial numbers show in rear view. Possible it is a photo recon kite. Tower logs for the day do not inventory individual a/c that attended. Pretty day . . ." And "FRE 5305 also shows another two seat P-51 converted by the shops. Back seat has a Malcolm Hood. The P-38 at the end is actually an F-5E of the 7th Photo Recon Group. It would be the mount of group CO at the time. Note the red stripe on the side of the engine - identifier for the 7th PRG." Handwritten on slide:" Line of P51s E. Richie"

                 

 

Does anybody have any further info to add to this very unique Mustang..................that would make an eye catching model in any one's collection 😲

Note,  I tweaked the brightness of the image a bit. ( FRE 5305)

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

[Sabrejet]

I recall a thread on two-seat Mustangs here (maybe a few searches would render), including the P-51D two-seater with separate canopies that later went to the Swiss AF.

[Bozothenutter]

Wasn't Eisenhower taken round in one of those?

 

 

[Duggy]

P-51 "Hacks" - some photos here -  http://axis-and-allies-paintworks.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?id=306

[Icedtea]

15 hours ago, Bozothenutter said:

Wasn't Eisenhower taken round in one of those?

 

 

Named "The Stars Look Down" referencing the esteemed general's (and his stars...) flight over the Normandy beachhead, there were decals for it in 1/48 at one stage ....like 1980's! Standard camo with aforementioned embellishments.

Edited September 7 by Icedtea
added info. and fixing errors.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

The oddest two seat conversion I ever found was for a P-51D all weather radar equipped aircraft trialled by the 4th Fg. You will note that they cut the sliding canopy into two sections and added a radar unit to the wings. 
 

https://i.imgur.com/y38N12x.png

 

https://i.imgur.com/86dnOat.jpg

 

https://i.imgur.com/huvFkQa.jpeg

At some point it was returned back to a standard fighter and from what I understand. It either went to the Swiss or Swedish Air force as a trainer ? 

 

https://i.imgur.com/LJWGcNu.jpeg

 

https://i.imgur.com/c6jJAQC.jpeg

 

I left these photo’s as links because I do not know who owns them. So I cannot openly display without permission. 

 

 

Dennis

[warhawk]

Looking at sliding modifications...

 

On 9/6/2024 at 6:59 PM, Duggy said:

P-51 "Hacks" - some photos here -  http://axis-and-allies-paintworks.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?id=306

 

 

 

 

On 9/11/2024 at 2:45 AM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

https://i.imgur.com/86dnOat.jpg

 

 

 

Is it just me, or there's no way for both occupants to enter the cockpit at the same time?  🙃

 

 

[Fukuryu]

1 hour ago, warhawk said:

Is it just me, or there's no way for both occupants to enter the cockpit at the same time?  🙃

 

 

No, is not just you. Unless both canopies are side-opening, there is no way to enter the aircraft at the same time. Or worse... leave it at the same time, let's say in a gravity-related hurry.

[Paul J]

On 06/09/2024 at 13:31, Etiennedup said:

 

Yesterday I came  across this (new to me) image in the IWM photo archive with the  following caption;

"P-51 Mustangs (VF-4) of the 4th Fighter Group, (CV-Q) of the 359th Fighter Group, (LC-D) of the 20th Fighter Group, (LH-V) of the 353rd Fighter group and (C5-Q) of the 357th Fighter Group, with a P-38 Lightning at Debden. Handwritten on slide:" Line of P51s E. Richie "

 

Wanting to know more, I did a Google search that yielded this on Reddit;

 

JCFalkenberglll

OP•7mo ago

P-51 Mustangs (VF-4) [42-106894] of the 4th Fighter Group, (CV-Q) of the 359th Fighter Group, (LC-D) of the 20th Fighter Group, (LH-V) of the 353rd Fighter group and (C5-Q) of the 357th Fighter Group, with a F-5E (P-38 Lightning) at Debden. Taken on 23 March 1945 by Edward Richie. Information from Mark Richie: "The 65th Fighter Wing had a meeting of all Group COs at Debden about the up coming Rhine River crossing operations. Pretty neat shots. Roger [Freeman] and I puzzled over the NMF C model with the Malcolm hood. D models were in all groups by then so finding a "new" C model with and Malcolm hood is kind of odd. No serial numbers show in rear view. Possible it is a photo recon kite. Tower logs for the day do not inventory individual a/c that attended. Pretty day . . ." And "FRE 5305 also shows another two seat P-51 converted by the shops. Back seat has a Malcolm Hood. The P-38 at the end is actually an F-5E of the 7th Photo Recon Group. It would be the mount of group CO at the time. Note the red stripe on the side of the engine - identifier for the 7th PRG." Handwritten on slide:" Line of P51s E. Richie"

                 

 

Does anybody have any further info to add to this very unique Mustang..................that would make an eye catching model in any one's collection 😲

Note,  I tweaked the brightness of the image a bit. ( FRE 5305)

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

The 4th FG had three. One for each of the units. The others were   one in red overall  and the other in bare metal finish. The red one had a pale blue edging to separate the group red nose from the rest of it.

 

 

[FloydWerner]

Just had a conversation with Halberd Models.  They said due to the poor performance of the TF-51D they are not going to do the P-51B two seater.  He said they had everything drawn up too.  Such a shame.

[Robertone139]

On 9/6/2024 at 8:31 AM, Etiennedup said:

 

Yesterday I came  across this (new to me) image in the IWM photo archive with the  following caption;"P-51 Mustangs (VF-4) of the 4th Fighter Group, (CV-Q) of the 359th Fighter Group, (LC-D) of the 20th Fighter Group, (LH-V) of the 353rd Fighter group and (C5-Q) of the 357th Fighter Group, with a P-38 Lightning at Debden. Handwritten on slide:" Line of P51s E. Richie "

 

That looks to me like PRU Blue

Edited September 12 by Robertone139

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

10 hours ago, warhawk said:

Looking at sliding modifications...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is it just me, or there's no way for both occupants to enter the cockpit at the same time?  🙃

 

 

There isn't much room to get out unless the two occupant’s take turns. Much like on the B’s in these photo’s. 

Edited September 12 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Milos Gazdic]

8 hours ago, Robertone139 said:

That looks to me like PRU Blue

I believe so. PRU Blue + Metalic wings

 

[Fukuryu]

1 hour ago, Milos Gazdic said:

I believe so. PRU Blue + Metalic wings

 

 

VF-4 wings look PRU to me in this picture.

[Dave Swindell]

8 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

There isn't much room to get out unless the two occupant’s take turns. Much like on the B’s in these photo’s. 

If you wanted out in a hurry the canopies would be jettisonned

[Dave Fleming]

W/C J A Storrar had a Mustang IV that was converted to take a second seat in the area behind the pilot (KM264)

[Mike Starmer]

I first saw this blue P-51 in 'Hacks' Utility planes of the Mighty Eight by Jacek Jackiewicz purchased some years ago, 20??.  There is no publishing date in it.  There are a lot more two seater P-51 and P-47s too. 

[Shorty84]

Two seat Mustangs are indeed an fascinating topic and would make for some interesting builds. I've collected all photos I could find over the years in order to build a few of them eventually.

 

12 hours ago, Fukuryu said:

VF-4 wings look PRU to me in this picture.

This picture seems to confirm the blue wings:

 

On 9/11/2024 at 2:45 AM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

The oddest two seat conversion I ever found was for a P-51D all weather radar equipped aircraft trialled by the 4th Fg. You will note that they cut the sliding canopy into two sections and added a radar unit to the wings. 

The same machine, coded QP-F, taken from here: http://www.4thfightergroupassociation.org/cfbrown_collection.html

 

Another converted P-51B: https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/P-51/4FG/pages/43-12193-P-51B-Mustang-4FG335FS-WD2-ww-Two-seat-conversion-at-Debden-03.html

 

Some other discussions with nice pics of converted double seaters:

http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=70768

http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=2041

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/42373-wartime-two-seater-mustang

 

Cheers

Markus

Edited September 13 by Shorty84
More content added.