Vallejo Model Air Equivalencies - WW2 Royal Navy Colours

[robgizlu]

The withdrawl and unavailability of Sovereign Colourcoats paints has been a major blow to many of us WW2 Royal Navy modellers 

After considerable academic research they offered as near as possible, matches to the whole range of (slightly) bewildering 20th Century and especially WW2 colours.

And just to complete the bargain, they sprayed and brush painted beautifully.

It is possible that we've lost them forever - to my knowledge no obvious buyer has come forwards yet.

 

To this end it seemed expedient to workout acrylic "equivalents" to Colourcoats.  One such conversion chart exists but uses Model Color equivalents.  Model Color are primarily "brush" - paints and spraying them is at best problematic.  Additionally many of the matches reflect an earlier generation of belief using Snyder & Short comparisons that have been superceded following the research done by Jamie Duff, Richard Dennis et al.

 

I chose Vallejo Model Air as they spray as well as any water based acrylics and the range is extensive and widely available.  

I'll list my estimation of the Pros & Cons of Vallejo Model Air acrylics:

 

Pros

·         Wide range of colours and easily available

·         Relatively cheap – last a long time

·         Mixing is easy with dropper bottles

·         No smell – fast drying

·         Oils and enamel washes etc  can be used directly onto acrylic surface

 

 

Cons

·         Spraying not so easy as with enamels

·         Airbrush clogs even with Thinner and Flow improver

·         Cleaning airbrush is more involved and time consuming

·         Matches to Colourcoats are approximations, albeit close

·         Adhesion to resin possibly not so good

 

So after much testing here is a Equivalency list.  The Colours are the closest matches that I can obtain.  Where possible I've used single colours and only included mixes where I've had to.  No doubt other different mixes will arrive at some of the same colours.  I did not have an original Sovereign Colourcoats sample of "Bronze Grey" used on aircraft Carrier decks so that does not appear - if you have one and care to match it - let me know and I'll add it.  

 

These matches are Close but not exact

 

When I personally run out of my stock of Colourcoats I'll begin to use these acylic equivalents.  OR, if we are lucky some enterprising soul will step in still, and take Colourcoats over from Jamie Duff.  In which case I would suggest you ignore all this completely!!

 

I've presented the list as an image that you are free to copy - I don't believe that one can upload a PDF file to Britmodeller.  PM me if you'd prefer a PDF

 

Please check that there are not Revised versions further along the thread.

 

 

Rob

[Faraway]

Rob.

Thanks for all your work on this.

I think this list will prove invaluable, now I need to look at my Model Air colours, to discover the ones I HAVEN’T got, which I’ll need to buy.

Jon

[Modelholic]

Is this the Model Colour chart you're alluding to?

https://app.box.com/s/istm0needbufr1micfa71wvcgyfppi0a

I only ever used it for the Luftwaffe RLM mixes, but, because of air brushing probs decided to mix up Tamiya XF instead (good for hairy stick detail painting though)!

Tom

[stevehnz]

6 hours ago, Modelholic said:

Is this the Model Colour chart you're alluding to?

https://app.box.com/s/istm0needbufr1micfa71wvcgyfppi0a

I only ever used it for the Luftwaffe RLM mixes, but, because of air brushing probs decided to mix up Tamiya XF instead (good for hairy stick detail painting though)!

Tom

Some of those look useful, I've played around with Vallejo Model Colours for years now & nothing that I've looked at jumps out & goes no way to me, I'll print some off & see what shades I've got to try some mixes. 

Steve.

[robgizlu]

9 hours ago, Modelholic said:

Is this the Model Colour chart you're alluding to?

https://app.box.com/s/istm0needbufr1micfa71wvcgyfppi0a

I only ever used it for the Luftwaffe RLM mixes, but, because of air brushing probs decided to mix up Tamiya XF instead (good for hairy stick detail painting though)!

Tom

It is Tom.

 

3 hours ago, stevehnz said:

Some of those look useful, I've played around with Vallejo Model Colours for years now & nothing that I've looked at jumps out & goes no way to me, I'll print some off & see what shades I've got to try some mixes. 

Steve.

 

Good luck Steve, let me know how you get on

Rob

[stevehnz]

14 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

 

Good luck Steve, let me know how you get on

Rob

By way of clarification, most of my interest is in the aircraft mixes. I have sources for standards in several of these,  the RAF Museum Camouflage & Markings chips, the Monogram US Navy book chips & the Luftwaffe Camo & Markings chips from the Merrick & Kiroff books so I can comment of mixes to colours from those sources as well as my nearly 70 year old eyes will allow. I have no source of Royal Navy colour chips other than the online ones that Jamie published on the Colourcoats website. At least though, if the aircraft ones pan out, it should give a degree of confidence for the Naval ones too, hopefully.

Steve.

[Ngantek]

Thanks so much for your work on this Rob. Some nice achieveable mixes there, one of the great advantages of Vallejo is the wide range. Particularly helpful for me as being colourblind, I wouldn't stand a chance otherwise! How is brush work with the thinner air paints?

Having instead opted for a huge collection of Tamiyas, that's probably the way I'll end up going, but at my glacial pace, I've still got a little while on my remaining stock of colourcoats.

 

Thanks again!

Andy

[robgizlu]

39 minutes ago, Ngantek said:

Thanks so much for your work on this Rob. Some nice achieveable mixes there, one of the great advantages of Vallejo is the wide range. Particularly helpful for me as being colourblind, I wouldn't stand a chance otherwise! How is brush work with the thinner air paints?

Having instead opted for a huge collection of Tamiyas, that's probably the way I'll end up going, but at my glacial pace, I've still got a little while on my remaining stock of colourcoats.

 

Thanks again!

Andy

 

Thanks Andy,  I brush with these in preference to Model Color.  I use straight from the bottle.  It's one of their advantages over Tamyia - that I've never managed to "brush".

HTH

Rob

[Terry1954]

Joining the chorus of thanks Rob, for all your work on this

 

Such a shame about Colourcoats. I have some reasonable stocks left so will need to use them with care. That Vosper of mine will become more of a miracle if I finish it (eventually) in colourcoats!

 

Terry

[Troy Smith]

19 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

I brush with these in preference to Model Color. 

Model Color is a bit thick from the bottle.

19 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

I use straight from the bottle.  It's one of their advantages over Tamyia - that I've never managed to "brush".

Tamiya brushes very well, but not from the jar.   

It's  a bit thick, and uses an alcohol thinner (Butanol AFAIK) so it's fairly 'hot'  and when brushed neat this flashes off, but the next stroke will then drag up what you have applied.

I add a Tamiya to a pallete, and add water, and a little flow improver,  I use a small syringe to draw up 95% de-ionised water and 5% Flow improver,  and add this a drop at a time to the Tamiya,  you want a milk type consistency and a apply with a small FLAT brush,  4-6 mm wide.   It also means you can recoat when touch dry.   The water 'cools' the alcohol solvent enough so it will flow and not cause subsequent strokes to lift. 

Same technique for Model Color. 

 

This is brushed Tamiya Ocean Grey (a mix, XF-82 is too blue and dark) and Vallejo Dark Green

2024-02-15_01-44-12 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

It may sound a faff but it's not.    I use a multipack brush sets from The Works for flat brushes, as the acrylics tend to dry into the top, and then use brush soap periodically to clean this out.

 

HTH

 

 

[Tegethoff]

This is really helpful. Thank you Rob for this and the advice provided across the forum.  

[Vlad]

Fantastic work putting together this resource @robgizlu !!!

 

It's indeed a shame about Sovereign and Colourcoats, but this sort of thing gives people much more flexibility to use their preferred brands while keeping the spirit of accuracy and all that research alive.

 

I was thinking of making a similar post with the paints and mixes I use based on the Revell and Humbrol ranges. However, although I tried to match the drawings and profiles, mine would be less scientific and more "by eye" since I never owned the new colourcoats nor have chips to match against. Is that something people would find useful with that caveat?

Edited September 1, 2024 by Vlad

[Faraway]

1 hour ago, Vlad said:

Fantastic work putting together this resource @robgizlu !!!

 

It's indeed a shame about Sovereign and Colourcoats, but this sort of thing gives people much more flexibility to use their preferred brands while keeping the spirit of accuracy and all that research alive.

 

I was thinking of making a similar post with the paints and mixes I use based on the Revell and Humbrol ranges. However, although I tried to match the drawings and profiles, mine would be less scientific and more "by eye" since I never owned the new colourcoats nor have chips to match against. Is that something people would find useful with that caveat?

Any paint comparison reference is worth having.

Jon

[S-boat 55]

On 28/08/2024 at 11:49, robgizlu said:

The withdrawl and unavailability of Sovereign Colourcoats paints has been a major blow to many of us WW2 Royal Navy modellers 

After considerable academic research they offered as near as possible, matches to the whole range of (slightly) bewildering 20th Century and especially WW2 colours.

And just to complete the bargain, they sprayed and brush painted beautifully.

It is possible that we've lost them forever - to my knowledge no obvious buyer has come forwards yet.

 

To this end it seemed expedient to workout acrylic "equivalents" to Colourcoats.  One such conversion chart exists but uses Model Color equivalents.  Model Color are primarily "brush" - paints and spraying them is at best problematic.  Additionally many of the matches reflect an earlier generation of belief using Snyder & Short comparisons that have been superceded following the research done by Jamie Duff, Richard Dennis et al.

 

I chose Vallejo Model Air as they spray as well as any water based acrylics and the range is extensive and widely available.  

I'll list my estimation of the Pros & Cons of Vallejo Model Air acrylics:

 

Pros

·         Wide range of colours and easily available

·         Relatively cheap – last a long time

·         Mixing is easy with dropper bottles

·         No smell – fast drying

·         Oils and enamel washes etc  can be used directly onto acrylic surface

 

 

Cons

·         Spraying not so easy as with enamels

·         Airbrush clogs even with Thinner and Flow improver

·         Cleaning airbrush is more involved and time consuming

·         Matches to Colourcoats are approximations, albeit close

·         Adhesion to resin possibly not so good

 

So after much testing here is a Equivalency list.  The Colours are the closest matches that I can obtain.  Where possible I've used single colours and only included mixes where I've had to.  No doubt other different mixes will arrive at some of the same colours.  I did not have an original Sovereign Colourcoats sample of "Bronze Grey" used on aircraft Carrier decks so that does not appear - if you have one and care to match it - let me know and I'll add it.  

 

These matches are Close but not exact

 

When I personally run out of my stock of Colourcoats I'll begin to use these acylic equivalents.  OR, if we are lucky some enterprising soul will step in still, and take Colourcoats over from Jamie Duff.  In which case I would suggest you ignore all this completely!!

 

I've presented the list as an image that you are free to copy - I don't believe that one can upload a PDF file to Britmodeller.  PM me if you'd prefer a PDF

 

 

Rob

I wish I had the time or money (I have no idea what a company/set up like that would cost) to be able to take it on, as you say there a brilliant paint and will be sorely missed, 

[robgizlu]

4 hours ago, Vlad said:

Fantastic work putting together this resource @robgizlu !!!

 

It's indeed a shame about Sovereign and Colourcoats, but this sort of thing gives people much more flexibility to use their preferred brands while keeping the spirit of accuracy and all that research alive.

 

I was thinking of making a similar post with the paints and mixes I use based on the Revell and Humbrol ranges. However, although I tried to match the drawings and profiles, mine would be less scientific and more "by eye" since I never owned the new colourcoats nor have chips to match against. Is that something people would find useful with that caveat?

Thanks Vlad

I checked out the Humbrol range and the first thing to say is that it has been severely pruned !!!  The choice of colours actively available is very limited.

I've not had the chance to check out the Revell range.

I think Jon is correct saying that you can never have too many paint comparisons.  Sadly many seem to be very loose and casual and like the equivalent of chinese whispers - the further down the line you get the less accurate you get.

Rob

[Vlad]

1 hour ago, robgizlu said:

Thanks Vlad

I checked out the Humbrol range and the first thing to say is that it has been severely pruned !!!  The choice of colours actively available is very limited.

I've not had the chance to check out the Revell range.

I think Jon is correct saying that you can never have too many paint comparisons.  Sadly many seem to be very loose and casual and like the equivalent of chinese whispers - the further down the line you get the less accurate you get.

Rob

 

The Revell range is also quite limited, but I use them for their excellent brush paintability. Ship colours have very specific shades that mostly require mixing but there are a few that make at least a good start then add white/grey as required.

 

The last part is what I'm afraid of. My matches are good enough for me but not sure how well they stand up to real scrutiny and I don't want to start a "chinese whisper" as you say.

Edited September 1, 2024 by Vlad

[RN WW2]

Thanks Rob, 

most helpful and really appreciated.

Very said news about Colourcoats which is already being missed. Just wished I never faffed about putting an order in before the announcement. Luckily I think i may have enough tins of the colours left to get my stash of my 7 Atlantic Models destroyers sorted and hopefully Belfast and Colombo done?

[Rich75]

Just wanted to say thanks for going to the trouble to do these Rob, much appreciated, as I'm colourblind  I've come to rely on Colourcoats and trusted in the research. I guess in a way that gives people with the ability to mix colours a good base to start from, top work

[stevehnz]

On 8/29/2024 at 7:00 PM, robgizlu said:

Good luck Steve, let me know how you get on

Rob

As anticipated, for all the Vallejo Model Colour paints I have, from the PDF @Modelholic linked to, I only had paints to do 4 colours, three US Army Air Force & Navy (620 Light Gull Gray, 612 Medium Green, 608 Intermediate Blue  &  from the RAF list  Extra Dark Sea Grey.  The Gull Gray & Medium Green were good matches I felt, the other two were too dark & I wonder with 70.900 French Mirage Blue being common to both, if my bottle was from a dark batch. They all painted out beautifully but I would use those results with caution on my admittedly very small sample.

Steve.

[robgizlu]

Hi Steve - Thanks for that.  My impression from the Naval colors is that most will fall short of what we think of today as accurate representations.

Rob

[Faraway]

On 04/09/2024 at 12:50, stevehnz said:

I only had paints to do 4 colours,

Same here.

The Great God Sod strikes again.

Jon

[TallBlondJohn]

Does anybody have a Vallejo match for anti-fouling red and grey?

[robgizlu]

On 9/6/2024 at 3:40 PM, TallBlondJohn said:

Does anybody have a Vallejo match for anti-fouling red and grey?

Hi John

Sorry - no idea re antifouling Grey

Vallejo Fire Red 71.084 or Vallejo Fire Red with Vallejo Rust 71.080  1 : 1 will get you close to RN Anti-fouling Red though NOT a perfect match to Sovereign colourcoats

I didn't include it in the chart as I wasn't massively happy with it and still need to spray something to experiment

Don't be tempted to use Vallejo Hull Red 71.039.   Mine is a mahogany brown colour and I thought it was faulty until someone mentioned the same (can't remember where)

Rob

[theskits62]

One of the problems with Vallejo paints is that being in bottles its difficult to stir and you end up almost dislocating a shoulder shaking the bottles before use to mix them well. Something I've started doing is adding an 8mm ball bearing to the bottles as an agitator, it works really well and means a lot less bottle shaking. I bought a bag of 250 of these bearings on ebay for less than a fiver.

[Modelholic]

Make sure the BBs are stainless steel or they can corrode and siscolour the paint.

Ask me how I know this!

Tom