Confused and Bemused by "Azure blue" - can anyone help please

[Tigerausfb]

My tin says 'Master Modellers' though, a level up from plain 'Authentic' #justsayin  Just kidding.

 

No idea how old my tin of 157 is, late eighties probably. I'll have a look through that thread you mention, there was also a useful MC9 Sky Blue. We're back in the Paleolithic now but Precision Paints also did a MC12, in fact they too call it MC12, Prussian Dragoon Blue. It looks a touch darker than the Humbrol one.

 

 

Andrew

[Graham Boak]

H157 from the 80s is quite a good representation of Light Mediterranean Blue, if a bit purple. LMB and AB are adjacent on the MAP colour chart.

[Jochen Barett]

9 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Hmm,  that long ago H157 had not been invented either..... You are perhaps thinking of the Azure Bluein the Humbrol Authetics range, which in the lengthy linked thread the idea is that Humbrol Authentic Azure Blue was matched to Light Mediterranean Blue in error.

Humbrol MC12 was another in the Authentic range, military blue for use on Napoleonic's, a google brings up it was Prussian Dragoon Blue

https://www.scalemates.com/colors/humbrol-authentic-colours--811/mc12-prussian-dragoon-blue-enamel-matt--7393 

 

And from memory it was a medium purple hued blue,  which is more in the ball park....

ooh, I love the stuff you can search up.....

 

 

the lovely nurse has just ironed my straight jacket and has my pills ready so.......

A few days later someone (maybe Mr. Humbrol himself) matched MC 12 with regular Humbrol 109 (WW I Blue / "Dragonerblau") and that was "matched" with HG.10 World War I Aircraft German Light Blue = MC.12 French/Prussian Napoleonic Prussian Dragoon Blue.

 

Humbrol 157 (Azure Blue 1990 - 2017) was "matched" to HB.13 Royal Air Force (Overseas) Azure Blue = HT.2 Russian Aircraft Underside Blue.

 

In "The Colour System" Humbrol matched or mixed RAF - Overseas "Azure Blue" with 49 parts of Humbrol 34 (White) + 10 parts Humbrol 25 (blue / HR.118 L.N.E.R. Garter Blue) + 1 part Humbrol 33 (black).

 

Is that lovely nurse around?

[PhantomBigStu]

I'v only tried one pot of the new acrylic 157, found it was way too purple, think the shade on hurricane in the troys pic but even more purple, need to try another to see if was just a dodgy pot 

[PLC1966]

59 minutes ago, Jochen Barett said:

A few days later someone (maybe Mr. Humbrol himself) matched MC 12 with regular Humbrol 109 (WW I Blue / "Dragonerblau") and that was "matched" with HG.10 World War I Aircraft German Light Blue = MC.12 French/Prussian Napoleonic Prussian Dragoon Blue.

 

Humbrol 157 (Azure Blue 1990 - 2017) was "matched" to HB.13 Royal Air Force (Overseas) Azure Blue = HT.2 Russian Aircraft Underside Blue.

 

In "The Colour System" Humbrol matched or mixed RAF - Overseas "Azure Blue" with 49 parts of Humbrol 34 (White) + 10 parts Humbrol 25 (blue / HR.118 L.N.E.R. Garter Blue) + 1 part Humbrol 33 (black).

 

Is that lovely nurse around?

I don't understand the confusion.........LOL..........

[John]

12 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

 

You could just say it's finished in LMB, and not worry.....  Malta Spitfire colours are a matter of intense debate.....

 

 

HTH

The 157/LMB theory is one I've never subscribed to. I've no idea how the colour gravitated towards a grey blue from what was apparently originally quite a good match in the original Authentic release, but I doubt it was as a result of any conscious matching. I suspect it just drifted over the years, as a number of Humbrol colours did. See early Humbrol 30 compared to later iterations for a particularly striking example. 25 has been all over the place too, from a fairly pure blue to a Cadbury purple blue. I'm sure there are many more, 64 is darker than it used to be for example. 

"Legacy" 157 looks good on my slowly proceeding Airfix Wildcat - with Gloss 40 undersides. I'd say the closest it comes to any MAP colour is a faded PRU Blue. I'll have to slap some of my (extensive 😀) stock on a PR Spitfire and see what it looks like. 

I'd use 96 if you want LMB. It's bluer than the old 157 and not a bad visual match for the RAFM chip. 

Watch out for the acrylic 157 in the P40 gift set, it's the older colour. It may have been updated recently but I haven't seen the current version of the kit. 

John 

[Graham Boak]

There was no gradual colour drift between the original Authentics colours, but a distinct step change in several (almost if not all?) of the colours.  The obvious presumption is cost.  Whether there was any further drift over the years is quite possible, certainly in later years.  Humbrol 96 is however good advice: I've use the similar Airfix RAF Ensign Blue for LMB but don't expect ever to see that again.

 

It is definitely a step backwards for the hobby to be quoting Humbrol approximates for Colourcoats accurate paints.

[5huggy]

16 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

ou could just say it's finished in LMB, and not worry.....  Malta Spitfire colours are a matter of intense debate.....

WOW! thanks @Troy Smith - some awesome photo's you've posted there!

 

I have to admit - Ive been outside all day so far! - "WE've Finally had " (YES TWO) days in a row, of stunning sunshine, in the lake district/Cumbria"

 

Came in from front garden to get a "beer" and to check on the F1 Qualifying and discovered  - (UK TV) channel 5Action just finishing "Where Eagles Dare" and to be followed by "The Dam Busters" 

[5huggy]

results from early morning playtime - will be presented later.

 

Sun and outdoors is too tempting right now!

[Troy Smith]

6 hours ago, 5huggy said:

some awesome photo's you've posted there!

Thank @Etiennedup  for collating and posting up on Flickr

Some great pics there,  in this case to give you an idea of Azure Blue.   I did make myself a mix in Vallejo which matches the MAP chip, but as you will now be aware it's not well represented in model paint....

[stevehnz]

I think it is the Humbrol Colour binder mix that Urbans Colour Reference Charts UK used for Azure blue. IMHO, the addition of black (Hu33) does nothing but give it a dirty grey tinge. As the afore mentioned super thread was progressing, I was playing with colour mixes & came up with one that while not a perfect match for the chip in the RAF Museum book, was pretty darn close.

I should pull my swatches out, the new Humbrol Dropper Bottle acrylic Azure Blue look not too bad but probably a bit dark, as most of that range appear to be, from what I can see against swatches I've painted out previously.

Fwiw, Smer, in their P-40K/Kittyhawk III kit give a mix of 5 parts (Hu 34 white) to 1 part (HU25 Blue), the same ratio of white to colour as my mix above. It will likely be slightly too dark & miss the purplish tinge, Hu 14 would be a better choice I reckon, but it will get you in the ball park.

Steve.

[noelh]

On 8/30/2024 at 11:33 AM, 5huggy said:

And yet Airfix still selling models that they specify require 157 Azure????  

 

 

 

They also still   specify Humbrol 30 as RAF Dark Green. 

[5huggy]

HA! I discovered a natural version of "Azure" - right in front of me , that has been hidden for weeks !

 

Now the damn clouds are out of the way!

 

 

[5huggy]

So here is the the result of the "matt" effect - I think, for me, this is a nice closeness (enough for me). 

 

The matt that was used was, my go to Galeria.  

 

AND NOW the "Paint"! 

 

 

Once matt coat had been applied it did what I kind of expected, and gave it a lighter appearance. 

Edited September 1 by 5huggy

[PhantomBigStu]

On 8/31/2024 at 10:52 AM, PhantomBigStu said:

I'v only tried one pot of the new acrylic 157, found it was way too purple, think the shade on hurricane in the troys pic but even more purple, need to try another to see if was just a dodgy pot 

Amazon were offering it at half price so and was ordering some with a few other bits which took me over me the 5% discount so seemed a risk worth taking for only a few extra p, glad I did, second pot is less purple, looks much more like what shown in Tory's pic on the prior page though the digital chip I have is lighter and less purple but as it was taken from a photo that may be why

 

edit: in fact it looks spot on for dupont azure blue 

Edited September 6 by PhantomBigStu

[5huggy]

Well I would like to give a "BIG" shout out of thanks to @FatFlyHalf for your suggestion buddy. 

 

the results -- >>are to my liking 

 

 

 

Albeit photo is taken in poor electric light, and as yet not "matt-ed"  - - It works "For me"!! 

 

BIG thanks to all other suggestions that I will get round to trying out in time.

[FatFlyHalf]

Glad that it was okay for you.

[5huggy]

2 minutes ago, FatFlyHalf said:

Glad that it was okay for you.

diolch yn fawr! 😉 - grand mother was welsh!

[Troy Smith]

@5huggy

I can't spot a WIP for this,  but a couple of points on the Spitfire, 

 

 

the ailerons are both dropped, one needs to be up.

 

Wheel wells.    Much discussed,  AFAIK and from photos,  the outer wheel part is the underside colour,   the inner leg part is the interior colour.

 

And, probably too late, the method of attaching the UC legs on this kit is badly designed,  as it has a very small gluing area to take the whole kit weight,  very easy to snap and hard to fix.   Trick is to drill and pin, before  assembly.

You might be able to drill to add pins.....  I can link you a build if you want to know more

 

HTH

[5huggy]

12 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

You might be able to drill to add pins.....  I can link you a build if you want to know more

Awesome thanks 

[MilneBay]

The first 2015 Airfix 1/48 kit I built I made the mistake of following the instructions re both the undercarriage assembly and also the area above the tank ahead of the cockpit. This resulted in some annoying and protracted efforts to get these right. The second one I built I assembled the two part undercarriage legs before any other sub-assemblies, this allowed them plenty of time to set securely. I then, when it came to placing the u/c legs in the wing simply manoeuvred the completed legs into position, a simple task, before fitting the upper wing halves and was rewarded with a strong undercarriage placed at the correct angle. 

[PatG]

Does anyone still have the old 'AeroMaster Warbird Colors' rendition of Azure Blue I wonder?

 

I have a very old and so far un-used bottle of their Acrylic paint version and having just opened it for the first time in 20 years it looks to be pretty close to anything else I've seen.

 

That said getting hold of a jar would now be rather problematic I suspect!

 

Pat.

 

Ps. does anyone know why/when AeroMaster went out of production?

[Chuck1945]

Been long enough back that my memory is fuzzy on details but as best I remember the Aeromaster acrylics were produced by RPM, the same as PollyScale, and the Aeromaster sales didn’t warrant continued production, this was also about the time Aeromaster decals went kaput so possibly a connection. I also have a vague recollection that the paint colors supposedly were produced with the so called ‘scale affect’. I was using mostly PollyScale at the time and never purchased much of the Aeromaster line. I don’t use PollyScale anymore, but still have bottles that are good.

[Work In Progress]

9 hours ago, PatG said:

Does anyone still have the old 'AeroMaster Warbird Colors' rendition of Azure Blue I wonder?

I have one somewhere, definitely the acrylic and I think the enamel too

[Mike Starmer]

Pleas don't use the American painted Azure Blue as a guide.  This colour is a shade between MAP Azure Blue and Light Mediterranean Blue.  I checked this using the British Aviation book and a copy of the American 3-1 colour cards where it is No.308 lustreless.