Supermarine Spitfire MK. VIII 1/24 Airfix

[LN-KEH]

They had the box on display in the Airfix tent at RIAT - towards the end of the show it was looking a bit worn after all the handling.

[Whitewolf]

On 15/07/2024 at 20:33, Bell209 said:

What an awesome surprise! I've always liked the 457SQN scheme but the price is a little scary for Aussies. Still might need to get one, though...

It's really good to see a MKVIII in 1/24 with 457 as an obvious option, love that scheme!  Guess I'll be ordering one of these

[Mike]

We've got the review online now:

 

Looks good

 

[PeterR]

Great job, thanks Mike! 

[rafju]

Dear All

Wishing to assemble this model with the finish of the 273 Squadron, Spitfire I need some help please.

So I am looking for information on the Far East theater scheme applied in Asia, more pecisely when the Squadron was in Tan Son Nhut airbase.

Why?

Just because some of these airplanes where loaned to the french GC II/7 (Groupe de Chasse) on december 1945.

 

Many thanks for any info, profile , pictures...

Raphael

 

Edited August 13, 2024 by rafju

[Graham Boak]

RAF Mk.VIIIs in 1945 were in Dark Green and Dark Earth colours on top, standard pattern.  These colours may have been initially darker than the UK normal as possibly obtained from Australia.  Undersides would be either the official Medium Sea Grey or perhaps Sky Blue, as recorded by aviation artist Frank Wooton on 607 Sq examples.  Several 607 Sq Mk.VIIIs were transferred to the French in Indo China, as opposed to just loaned, when the unit disbanded at the end of the Pacific War.  Each squadron would have its own distinctive spinner colour, I don't know that of 273 but they may well have just been in the default white, together with the SEAC theatre markings of white bands on the wings, tailplane and fin/rudder.

 

Many years ago La Traite de Union did a monograph on the French use of the Spitfire: there is likely to be a reference to these aircraft in there.  If you can find a copy... 

[rafju]

Many thanks for this response  Graham, greatly apreciated 😉

 

I received a serial nbr list of these Mk VIII loaned to the french Armée de l'Air at the end of 1945, and after some research through  website like this one :

Spitfire pilots and aircraft database - (allspitfirepilots.org)

they all come from India operation theater for about one year, so we can easily imagine colors were a bit sun faded, something like what can be seen here:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205207722

Edited August 13, 2024 by rafju
link added

[rafju]

Hi

I've found at this Sqn 273 Mk VIII very interesting listing with picture! 

https://allspitfirepilots.org/aircraft/search?serial=MT726&model=&factory=&engine=&notes=

 

We can see at a plane with a B&W spinner, any explanation about? Group' leader aircraft?

[Work In Progress]

2 hours ago, rafju said:

Hi

I've found at this Sqn 273 Mk VIII very interesting listing with picture! 

https://allspitfirepilots.org/aircraft/search?serial=MT726&model=&factory=&engine=&notes=

 

We can see at a plane with a B&W spinner, any explanation about? Group' leader aircraft?

Might be black and white, might be dark blue and white (roundel blue)

[Homebee]

Error

 

V.P.

Edited August 19, 2024 by Homebee

[224 Peter]

Well, mine arrived today...24 August 2024. 

First impressions are similar to those of the Mk IX kit. 

I will build MT 507 fromm. 152 Squadron, essentially straight from the box. 

 

 

[224 Peter]

I'm starting pre-build investigation: there is a dearth of photographic information on the web, so far I've found only one very small, grainy photograph which shows the serial aligned with the lower edge of the A/C letter. The kit disagrees. 

There are many photos of the Eduard kit, but little else. Given that some 1300+ Mk VIIIs were built, this lack of documentation is surprising.

 

For what it is worth MT 507 it seems that was built at Eastleigh in 1944, shipped to India later that year and scrapped in 1947.  No 152 Squadron my have be the only uer.  

 

I have looked for photos of other LF Mk VIIIs, which one site claims MT507 is, but no luck. 

 

Suggestions, anyone?  

[Graham Boak]

You'll have seen lots of photos of LF Mk.VIIIs, because most of the Mk,VIIIs were LFs, with Merlin 66s not 61s or 63s.  I suspect all of those in SEAC were.  Apologies for not having the serial split, but I would assume that if it didn't have the double cannon bulge and the pointed wingtips, and probably not the Desert Scheme either, then it was an LF.  None of these things are ideal guides...  but a good starter.  Oh, there were a few HF Mk.VIIIs with Merlin 70s but I think they mainly/all went to Australia.  Open to correction on that when I dig out Spitfire The History.

[Alex Gordon]

On 8/25/2024 at 6:50 PM, 224 Peter said:

Suggestions, anyone?  

The gen on MT 507,http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p073.html,says that it was only on the strength of 136 Squadron.

 

MT507 LFVIII EA M66 9MU 24-4-44 215MU 5-5-44 'City of Agra' 30-5-44 India 4-7-44 136Sq SOC 27-2-47

 

Oddly enough MT 705 was on the strength of 152 Squadron

 

MT705 LFVIII EA M66 9MU 1-6-44 215MU 12-6-44 'Clan Campbell' 16-7-44 India 14-8-44 152Sq SOC 11-7-46

 

I wonder if there is a typo there somewhere,the ORBs haven't revealed anything useful

 

136 Sqn https://www.rafcommands.com/database/air27/index.php?qname=&cur=17050&qn1=&qnum=&qdate=

 

152 Sqn https://www.rafcommands.com/database/air27/index.php?qname=&cur=18750&qn1=&qnum=&qdate=

[224 Peter]

This is odd....one A/C can't be in two places at the same time!

 

Also interesting that 136 Squadron was re-numbered 152 after the end of the war in the far east. 

136 Spitfire Mk VIII were in brown, green and azure blue under some sources claim, Squadron codes were HM

Referred to as the Woodpecker Squadron, some images show coloured spinners. 

[Graham Boak]

Spitfire The History has it arriving on the City of Agra.

 

Azure Blue seems to have been common on SEAC Spitfires, as seen in paintings by Frank Wooton.  It has been claimed that it was standard for overseas deliveries at this stage.  

 

Each of the SEAC Spitfire squadrons was allocated its own colour for their spinners - see list in supplementary sheet of Aircam Merlin-engined Spitfires.

[jenko]

Just something to remember.

Airfix have a couple of people doing research. Britmodeller has thousands. If we can't get it right who can ?  

 

Dick

[224 Peter]

Dick, 

it does seem to me that Airfix selected a scheme based on schemes used by other popular makers of smaller scale models. 

If the official records are possibly erronious and photos of SEAC Mk VIII Spitfires relatively rare it is difficult for any researcher to verify beyond reasonable doubt their offering. 

I'll be painting mine in Dark Green, Dark Earth and Azure Blue. 

I hope that by the time I need to apply squadron codes and serial numbers we may have a definitive identity for MT 507.

 

[Troy Smith]

28 minutes ago, 224 Peter said:

I'll be painting mine in Dark Green, Dark Earth and Azure Blue. 

I hope that by the time I need to apply squadron codes and serial numbers we may have a definitive identity for MT 507.

 

Many similar serialed Spitfires went to the RAAF

Peter Malone @Magpie22  may have an idea what the factory scheme was for these,  if it was Desert than Azure Blue, but if Day Fighter Scheme then it would be Medium Sea Grey,  both seem to have been acceptable in SEAC, with just the uppers being repainted. 

 

there is a gallery of 152 Spitfire here

http://www.152hyderabad.co.uk/html/gallery_2__1942-1946.html

 

http://www.152hyderabad.co.uk/assets/images/021A1.jpg

 

One point on the undersides, the Dark Green runs through the cockpit, the serial is white, so has been repainted, and is on a Dark Earth band of camouflage, which suggest that the delivery scheme was Day Fighter Scheme,  which would suggest Med Sea Grey undersides. 

 

this is a UM-C, what little can be seen of the undersides on the tailplane would suggest MSG, as the 'india white' used for the roundel centre is similar to Azure Blue in tone.

 

But the chap to ask is Peter Malone. 

 

HTH

[224 Peter]

Looking at the last photo and doing the best I can with Photoshop tends to support the serial MT 507. The tonal variation also suggests late war fighter colours with the upper surface grey over painted in dark earth. The underside could be grey, Azure Blue is less likley. 

The photo seems to be a very close match to the Airfix colour call out. 

 

Interestingly, in the "Cat" photo above it looks as though there is nothing going into the aerial insulator to the left of the roundel, I believe that this was an IFF aerial which ran from the tailplane to the fuselage on both sides. Probably not a lot of use over Burmah! 

Another observation: note the pistol on one side and jungle knife on the other side of the webbing bellt. .  

[Graham Boak]

One of the problems RAF fighters faced in SEAC was the poor early warning due to the local geography. A lot of work went into improving this so I don't think IFF can be ignored at any time.  Possibly we are seeing the arrival of the later stub aerial

[Magpie22]

10 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Many similar serialed Spitfires went to the RAAF

Peter Malone @Magpie22  may have an idea what the factory scheme was for these,  if it was Desert than Azure Blue, but if Day Fighter Scheme then it would be Medium Sea Grey,  both seem to have been acceptable in SEAC, with just the uppers being repainted. 

 

But the chap to ask is Peter Malone. 

 

HTH

 

MT serialed Spits that were sent to Australia arrived in the factory applied Day Fighter Scheme. Therefore MSG under surfaces. Not going to buy into the SEAC colours but, if they were repainted, why use Azure Blue??

 

Incidentally, the box art of ZP-W is incorrect re shark mouth.

 

Peter M

Edited August 30, 2024 by Magpie22
added ZP-W bit

[At Sea]

Regarding shark mouths I was hoping for the larger one that is used in Eduard's 1/48 kit of ZP-V...

 

Hopefully the aftermarket will be along shortly. 

[224 Peter]

I think this kit calls out for some alternative markings, but given that only about 1640 Mk VIIIs were built and many went to the middle east and far east photographs are not common. 

As a significant number were HF versions with extended wing tips without A/M parts the number of options is sadly lacking.

 

Another thought: The RAAF used "Foliage Green: not RAF dark green. How many supplied to Australia had a mix of the two greens, due to repairs and or repaints?

 

 

 

 

[Graham Boak]

The pointed wingtips were standard on early Mk.VIIIs, nothing to do with HF designation.  Upon arrival in the ME they tended to be used in the high cover role, because of their 2 stage superchargers, but these were the same as the engines in the Mk IXs.  It was discovered that in dogfights the pointed wingtip passed too much stress into the wing roots, resulting in seriously damaged airframes.  A small number of HF Mk.VIIIs with Merlin 70s went to Australia in late production, but I think.that they had standard tips.  It was the engine that decided the prefix.

 

Peter Malone is the.man for Aussie.Spitfires, but they did tend to.be repainred.  I don't recall mention of.mixed greens on a single aircraft.