Ukrainian F16? Which type/block

[Flying Badger]

I recently won an eBay auction for two airfix 1/72 f16A/B kits. Back in the day it was the first kit I had built that I was vaguely happy with so these builds will be pure nostalgia trips for fun...

 

However the decals are knackered in these two boxes due to their age. The auction included a set of Danish decals including 87-0022 which is an F16B-MLU (I.e. block 20) being used at the moment to train Ukrainian pilots.

 

That had me thinking about the 2nd kit... what to build? A Ukrainian F-16 would be an obvious pairing but I am not sure which type or block of single seat F-16 they are getting and all the decal schemes I've seen so far seem to be "what if" guesses ahead of actual aircraft being re-painted. 

 

Can anyone help?

[exdraken]

All currently promised F-16s  are Block 5-15 AM/ BM models as operated by Denmark  Norway,  Belgium and the Netherlands. 

 

They all got upgraded various times since the late 1990s and are capability wise rather up to date.

 

Block 20 is/ was only operated by Taiwan AFAIK!

 

Up to Block 20, F-16 atr considered A/B models with narrow fin base and exclusively PW engines

[CT7567]

I haven't seen any public images of the F-16s being operated by Ukraine, so it will likely be a while yet before anyone produces accurate decals.

 

As to the mark(s) being operated, my understanding is that Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Norway are all contributing surplus airframes, which should make them all F-16AM single seaters and BM two-seaters.  These are the original production A/B models which received the Mid-Life Update (MLU) starting in the late 1990s, basically bringing their avionics and weapons capabilities up to roughly equivalent to C/D models at that time.  The upgrade program was shared between the original European operators, with the US also participating but not adopting any updgraded airframes (other F-16 operators took up the updates later).

 

For modeling purposes, the Airfix kits you have represent the early F-16A/B (Block 1/5/10), unique for the original smaller horizontal stabilators (all later models have enlarged stabilators, distinguishable by a diagonal crop at the outboard trailing edges).  I'm not sure if the early production blocks had their stabilators updated to the later style as part of the MLU program, but at the very least the majority of AM/BMs would have the larger stabs.

 

A feature of most European A/B airframes not included in the Airfix kit is the extended tail base (used by various operators for a parabrake, ECM gear, or left empty).  No way of knowing what percentage of Ukraine's airframes will have the short base as Airfix represents, but it's safe to say it will be the minority (if any).

 

Another notable feature of MLU airframes not included in the Airfix kit is the IFF antenna array on the upper nose in front of the windscreen (sometimes referred to jokingly as the "chicken slicer").  This array is unique to the MLU variants, but very similar antennae are also seen on ADF (Air Defense Fighter) variants and the later USAF F-16C/D updates.

[Flying Badger]

Hi @exdraken & @CT7567, Thanks both. 

 

Your comments rather confirm what I thought (but wasn't sure) was the case. That they'll be A/B variants with the MLU taking them to equivalent of c.Block 20 (as thats what the Danish ET-022 / 87-0022 airframe is described as now on the aircraft databases).

 

I knew I would have to CAD and 3D print / scratch build the larger stabilators and the IFF antenna as well as the "donkey dildos" Radar Warning Receivers on the leading edge flaps but I had missed the extended fin fairing/base so thats useful knowledge to get. 

 

I think I may hold off and only build the one as the Danish two seater (87-0022) and build the other as the original box scheme just as I did in 1990. I think I might be able to rescue enough of the decals by combining both sets and perhaps some DIY printed ones (I have a white printing printer at work!) to get away with a single one.

 

Then I can wait until the Ukraine schemes become public knowledge and do one of those with a more recent kit or a larger scale... SMW2024 target purchase perhaps.

 

One last question.... I saw a brief mention that the landing gear was different on the early versions (although that could have been related to the two prototypes)? Any advice?

 

Many Thanks again.

[CT7567]

Note the Danish F-16s do not have the extended tail base, so if you're modeling ET-022 you can skip that conversion part.  Most (but not all) of the Belgian, Dutch, and Norwegian airframes do have this, so just by probability most of the Ukrainian fleet will also.

 

Re: landing gear, I forgot about that difference in my list above, but the landing lights on the MLU were moved from the main gear to the starboard side of the nose gear.  This was done to avoid being blocked by targeting or navigation pods on the "chin" pylons (either side of the intake).  A similar change was made on C/Ds with uprated main gear for heavier loads, but (AFAIK) the MLUs gear is otherwise the same as original construction.

[Flying Badger]

Awesome. Thanks @CT7567

 

I had read about the landing light change but had forgotten so glad to be reminded. 

 

Depending on Timing these might end up in either the Classic Airfix or Nato group builds (or perhaps both!) which is probably the kiss of death to me getting them done before those finish 😉 so WIP threads are likely to be there.

 

FB.

 

 

[Flying Badger]

One last thing... Am I right in remembering that the Mid Life Upgrade for these also upgraded the cockpit to the glass cockpit so that it was comparable with the block 50?

I'm just on the hunt to see what cockpit sets options I have so picking up a block 50 cockpit and then whittling it down to fit in the airfix plastic would solve the lack of detail in the airfix kit (I remember it being somewhat sparse in there even for way back in 1990)

 

Also on looking at some recent reference images it seems ET-022 doesn't have the donkey dildoes on the leading edge slats so that saves me a scratch building / CD job. 🙂 

 

FB

[Marlin]

9 minutes ago, Flying Badger said:

One last thing... Am I right in remembering that the Mid Life Upgrade for these also upgraded the cockpit to the glass cockpit so that it was comparable with the block 50?

I'm just on the hunt to see what cockpit sets options I have so picking up a block 50 cockpit and then whittling it down to fit in the airfix plastic would solve the lack of detail in the airfix kit (I remember it being somewhat sparse in there even for way back in 1990)

 

Also on looking at some recent reference images it seems ET-022 doesn't have the donkey dildoes on the leading edge slats so that saves me a scratch building / CD job. 🙂 

 

FB

 

Hi.  
Perhaps this will help. 
These are Quinta 3D decals for an early F-16A
20240210_122412 by Bosse Persson, on Flickr

And these are for the updated AM version. 
20240210_122427 by Bosse Persson, on Flickr

HTH
/Bosse

[Foghorn Leghorn]

On 6/30/2024 at 1:46 PM, Flying Badger said:

However the decals are knackered in these two boxes due to their age.

 

If you're looking for some replacement decals I may be able to help. Drop me a PM if you're interested

 

Neil

[Moggy]

Donkey dildo

1 hour ago, Flying Badger said:

Also on looking at some recent reference images it seems ET-022 doesn't have the donkey dildoes on the leading edge slats so that saves me a scratch building / CD job. 🙂 

 

FB

Donkey dildoes!? Do I dare ask what they do in a F-16?

[Flying Badger]

Lol. The aparent nickname for the Radar Warning Recievers added to the outboard end of the leading edge flaps of later versions (and retro fitted to some older aircraft). 

[wschurr]

In USAF parlance, those antennas are referred to as “ beer cans”. I’ll add that the F-101 had two “dog peckers” in case you were dying to know.

[meindert]

Though I have not made the 1/72 Airfix F-16 kit, you can check out the various 1/72 F-16 versions used by the aforementioned NATO countries at my webpages here:

 

https://aircraftinplastic.com/models/f16/f16-1.htm

 

Particularly the Denmark F-16 would be different as compared to Dutch and Belgian F-16A MLU.

 

Now we have to wait for the first Ukraine F-16 photos.  My guess would be standard NATO colours with Ukrainian roundels.... but may be they will pop up in a different scheme. 

[Pappy]

G'day FB,

 

The ACESII seat was modified for NVG compatibility, the upper section behind the headrest was painted black and the fixed air data probes were removed and replaced with folded probes. Not sure if these airframes had the seat modified but I suspetc that if they underwent the MLU block upgrade, the seat mod was also applied.

 

One other thing to note is that these airframes may have had some or all of the scabbed on stiffener plates.

There are several sources of thin vinyl SA sets although thses are not sized for the Airfix kit so the fit might not be great,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

[RAGATIGER]

Hi there

 

 

Well there are some stuff to improve common F-16/B like

 

https://air-graphics.uk/shop/ols/products/ac-376-ale-50-towed-decoy-pod-and-pylon

 

https://air-graphics.uk/shop/ols/products/ac-144-f-16-terma-pylon-for-dutch-aircraft

 

https://air-graphics.uk/shop/ols/products/ac-132-f-16-mlu-viper-with-extended-ecm-tail

 

https://air-graphics.uk/shop/ols/products/ac-131-f-16-viper-parachute-tail-housing

 

https://air-graphics.uk/shop/ols/products/ac-082-terma-mrp-for-f-16

 

to make an accurate model you have tto consider to included them

 

Regards

 

Armando

[meindert]

see a recent photo here:

 

[Vex]

5 hours ago, meindert said:

see a recent photo here:

Unfortunately, that's merely a photoshop job putting Ukrainian markings on a Danish Falcon.

[Vex]

First pictures finally? Impossible to confirm if true but it looks like a Danish type.

 

[Vex]

3 hours ago, Vex said:

First pictures finally? Impossible to confirm if true but it looks like a Danish type.

Confirmed Dutch? But shouldn't those have drag chutes?

 

[Hook]

6 hours ago, Vex said:

But shouldn't those have drag chutes?

All surving Dutch ones should have the parabrake housing.

 

If only they would actually carry this scheme!

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Vex]

55 minutes ago, Hook said:

All surving Dutch ones should have the parabrake housing.

 

If only they would actually carry this scheme!

So the picture must be fake unless they still had airframes without the housing in reserve/storage.

Or someone mistook Danish for Dutch again.🤨

[Hook]

On 8/1/2024 at 11:34 AM, Vex said:

unless they still had airframes without the housing in reserve/storage

Every Dutch airframe that has flown somewhere the past twenty years had the 'chute fitted. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Duncan B]

On 8/1/2024 at 11:34 AM, Vex said:

So the picture must be fake unless they still had airframes without the housing in reserve/storage.

Or someone mistook Danish for Dutch again.🤨

Misinformation perhaps to keep their enemy guessing? I'm not sure what advantage there is to be gained from claiming they are ex Dutch rather than ex Danish but a little confusion caused is better than none in Ukraines' situation. Some of the ex Dutch aircraft were being used for training in Romania so it's possible that Ukraine wants Mr Putin to think these are those aircraft? Posting a photo of a short housing equipped aircraft does leave the question of whether it is even a, hitherto unannounced, ex USAF F-16C in the mix which would not be the case if it was a photo of an ex Dutch one. Then again I could be over thinking the whole thing and it could simply be sloppy journalism which is not uncommon (but you can see where a little confusion can lead).

 

Duncan B

[meindert]

On 7/30/2024 at 9:34 AM, meindert said:

see a recent photo here:

 

 

 

OK, than the photo worked and fooled me  

[Vex]

You know, if they really are Danish, would they have PIDS+ pylons?

I don't think this exists in model form yet, in any scale.