Recommendations for rigging

[ssherman]

I was wanting some recommendations for brands of rigging material. I recently bought some AK Super-Thin High Elastic Stretch Rigging and am figuring out how to use it. I find it difficult to work with but the results look good. In the past I've just used thread or some left over rigging from a ship model. I've even tried wire but that was unsuccessful.  I found the left over ship rigging to be the easiest to work with but I don't know what brand it is since it came with the kit. 

 

Also any advice for using the AK rigging would appreciated. 

[Black Knight]

I prefer to use the 'holes through the wings' method and I use 0.3mm nylon monofilament

[DaddyO]

Chalk me up fro a through the wings method

Set of micro drills or PCB drills from evilbay 0.3mm holes drilled before construction and thread overlong pieces of the thinnest fishing line (or invisible mending thread if you prefer something coloured) through. Fix one end with superglue and when dry  tension the overlong thread at the other end with a light weight (I use a pair of self closing tweezers) Apply superglue and after drying trim off with a new scalpel blade. Touch up if required.

These are all 1/72 and use 1lb fishing line.and it adds quite a bit of strength to the finished model.

[DaddyO]

Meant to add about the AK thread (which I personally don't like, but have tried)

 

Drill a small hole pop some kicker in the hole dip the end of the elastic in superglue and thread into the hole (Or if you have hands like a micro-surgeon hold the super-glued thread in the hole and then add kicker) Once that ends secure then pull thread towards second hole under slight tension and cut thread (it will end up slightly short when cut) Take the loose end in tweezers and repeat the gluing arrangement. Don't worry too much if it comes loose just trim the gluey end off the thread and have a bit more tension in the line 😉

 

Make up a test piece to practice on before committing to the model. Something simple like two pieces on plastic glued to a base and you'll be nice and confident when you come to use it in practice.

Paul

 

 

[Seawinder]

Nice pics, DaddyO. Question: what's your source for 1 lb. fishing line? I haven't been able to find anything thinner than 2.6 lb. online.

Thanks!

[ssherman]

8 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I prefer to use the 'holes through the wings' method and I use 0.3mm nylon monofilament

Thanks for your advice. I use the hole in wing method as well. I believe I have a version of this same model. Is it the Bristol Bulldog? I have an Impact Kits version of this plane on my to-do list. 

[ssherman]

7 hours ago, DaddyO said:

Meant to add about the AK thread (which I personally don't like, but have tried)

 

Drill a small hole pop some kicker in the hole dip the end of the elastic in superglue and thread into the hole (Or if you have hands like a micro-surgeon hold the super-glued thread in the hole and then add kicker) Once that ends secure then pull thread towards second hole under slight tension and cut thread (it will end up slightly short when cut) Take the loose end in tweezers and repeat the gluing arrangement. Don't worry too much if it comes loose just trim the gluey end off the thread and have a bit more tension in the line 😉

 

Make up a test piece to practice on before committing to the model. Something simple like two pieces on plastic glued to a base and you'll be nice and confident when you come to use it in practice.

Paul

 

 

"...if you have hands like a micro-surgeon..." I am way to clumsy to to perform surgery. Thanks for your advice.  I don't know that I'd buy anymore AK rigging in the future. I'll give your method a try. Right now I am working on a Airco DH.2. It's a spiderweb of rigging and not something I think I'll post a picture of on this forum.  

[DaddyO]

A DH2 is a bold choice, but will look fabulous when completed. If you don't have one a jig of some kind is enormously useful even for simple types. You can make one from lego or meccano if you have such things laying around. Personally I always make one up from foam board which only takes about 1/2 hour using some PVA, plan photocopies and a scalpel. Here's the much modified KP DH5 in it's jig to give you an idea. (If you look carefully you'll see the small holes in the wings for the rigging)

 

 

Here's the same model later in the process after the lines have been anchored at one end with the AK tweezers pulling the tension onto the elevator cables to fix the second end (A not quite so sophisticated jig) 🙃

 

 

Once all the lines are done you'll end up with a hairy model like this Nieuport 

 

 

Back to the DH5 with a brand new scalpel blade to trim, spot of filler or superglue or even thick paint to fill the remaining holes (A lot of exit points for wing rigging is actually under the markings) I made a right pigs ear of the finishing on these so a bit of sanding and repainting was required, but nothing too serious.

 

 

Hopefully that should give you the idea of how I do it. Some folks prefer to just drill part way through the top wing so they only have to touch up on the bottom, but I've never bothered since it's not too much of a chore.

 

I buy the circuit board drills in boxes of 10 for about £6 and with the thin ones I usually break a couple when drilling which is frustrating, but not the end of the world. Drilling all the holes out before assembly is much easier than trying to do it afterwards and remember to work from the inside rigging lines outwards to save yourself some grief.

 

Look forward to seeing the DH2 👍

 

Paul

[Chief Cohiba]

I'm much lazier than most when it comes to rigging, but this works fine enough for me. Disclaimer upfront; I do mostly 1/48 kits, use some elastic thread like EZ or Uschis, and I don't do tunbuckles in this scale.

 

So what I do: I only work from the inside when there are separated pieces, like on body halves, separated wings, etc. Here I glue the thread with a drop CA from the inside and poke it through the hole (or rather the other way round, but you get the idea.) It's easy.

 

For single part wings I just "wrap" the thread around the piece where it should be joined, e.g. the root of an interwing strut, fix it with some small piece of Kabuki tape on both sides, e.g. on the wing, and place a small drop of CA with a needle dip or similar on the very spot it should stay on, leave it to dry. I don't know how well this works with AK, but is fine with those wires I use.

 

I guess some other methods might produce a more precise result, but for me (read above: I'm lazy) it works fine enough. 

[Brandy]

I do 1:72 and also prefer to drill and thread, although I use 0.06mm Gamakatsu monofilament fishing line.

You can find it online easily enough.

 

 

Vacform FE8.

I wouldn't recommend starting with a DH2, you may want some practice first, but I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it.

 

 

Ian

[ssherman]

6 hours ago, DaddyO said:

A DH2 is a bold choice, but will look fabulous when completed. If you don't have one a jig of some kind is enormously useful even for simple types. You can make one from lego or meccano if you have such things laying around. Personally I always make one up from foam board which only takes about 1/2 hour using some PVA, plan photocopies and a scalpel. Here's the much modified KP DH5 in it's jig to give you an idea. (If you look carefully you'll see the small holes in the wings for the rigging)

 

 

Here's the same model later in the process after the lines have been anchored at one end with the AK tweezers pulling the tension onto the elevator cables to fix the second end (A not quite so sophisticated jig) 🙃

 

 

Once all the lines are done you'll end up with a hairy model like this Nieuport 

 

 

Back to the DH5 with a brand new scalpel blade to trim, spot of filler or superglue or even thick paint to fill the remaining holes (A lot of exit points for wing rigging is actually under the markings) I made a right pigs ear of the finishing on these so a bit of sanding and repainting was required, but nothing too serious.

 

 

Hopefully that should give you the idea of how I do it. Some folks prefer to just drill part way through the top wing so they only have to touch up on the bottom, but I've never bothered since it's not too much of a chore.

 

I buy the circuit board drills in boxes of 10 for about £6 and with the thin ones I usually break a couple when drilling which is frustrating, but not the end of the world. Drilling all the holes out before assembly is much easier than trying to do it afterwards and remember to work from the inside rigging lines outwards to save yourself some grief.

 

Look forward to seeing the DH2 👍

 

Paul

Wow, thanks for all your advice. I like the foam jig idea and will give that a try. I have plenty of Legos too, so I may give that a try as well. I've taken to just drilling straight through.  I found it's a lot easier to tension the rigging and, you're correct, filling in the holes isn't too difficult. I am also using PVA glue because it's easier to fix mistakes and it fills the holes.

 

I was unaware of what I was getting into with the DH 2 when I started it. The Smer kit instructions don't provide the full picture. It wasn't until I got online and found some better diagrams and instruction that I realized I was in over my head. Anyway, I am actually rigging as I go. The way the kit is designed it was possible for me to rig the wing struts before putting the top wing on. I've also rigged the rear struts ahead of assembly. I am a bit hesitant to post a picture of this thing as I've had a few mishaps, but I probably will anyway. 

 

 

[ssherman]

28 minutes ago, Brandy said:

I do 1:72 and also prefer to drill and thread, although I use 0.06mm Gamakatsu monofilament fishing line.

You can find it online easily enough.

 

 

Vacform FE8.

I wouldn't recommend starting with a DH2, you may want some practice first, but I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it.

 

 

Ian

No kidding. I didn't know what I was getting into, but it's coming along but not without some mistakes. The DH2 is a handful. I'll look into that fishing line you recommend.  Thanks. 

[ssherman]

5 hours ago, Chief Cohiba said:

I'm much lazier than most when it comes to rigging, but this works fine enough for me. Disclaimer upfront; I do mostly 1/48 kits, use some elastic thread like EZ or Uschis, and I don't do tunbuckles in this scale.

 

So what I do: I only work from the inside when there are separated pieces, like on body halves, separated wings, etc. Here I glue the thread with a drop CA from the inside and poke it through the hole (or rather the other way round, but you get the idea.) It's easy.

 

For single part wings I just "wrap" the thread around the piece where it should be joined, e.g. the root of an interwing strut, fix it with some small piece of Kabuki tape on both sides, e.g. on the wing, and place a small drop of CA with a needle dip or similar on the very spot it should stay on, leave it to dry. I don't know how well this works with AK, but is fine with those wires I use.

 

I guess some other methods might produce a more precise result, but for me (read above: I'm lazy) it works fine enough. 

Thanks for your advice. It's made realize I need to study the rigging before I even assemble. I had to come up with a way to attach rigging to a fuselage after it was assembled. Had I thought to do it ahead, it would have worked out better.  

[Chief Cohiba]

41 minutes ago, ssherman said:

it was assembled. Had I thought to do it ahead, it would have worked out better.

Yes, it is done accordingly to the build. Main rigging across the struts usually is one of my latest steps, but I have the wings and parts finished before I mount them. It takes some practice, but to me handling CA was one of the key things. rigging has lost it's thread, mounting the upper wing on some kits hasn't. 😉 

[DaddyO]

Top tip for superglue application is to stretch some sprue and then trim off the skinny bit; with practice you'll end up with a nice tapered applicator which is stiff enough to get into tight gaps and put a drop precisely where it's needed. Put a small amount of Cyno on a smooth surface (I like to use Pringle tops, but other potato snacks are available)😉 Dip the applicator in the cyano and away you go. When it gets a bit clogged just trim the end and carry on 😁

 

Paul

[Black Knight]

13 hours ago, ssherman said:

. . . I believe I have a version of this same model. Is it the Bristol Bulldog? I have an Impact Kits version of this plane on my to-do list. 

Its the Airfix 1/72 version

 

I prefer to use a 'glue loop' made of wire in an old paint brush handle

 

The burnt look is from burning off excess superglue

I have several glue loops made up and ready

[Tentacles]

8 hours ago, DaddyO said:

A DH2 is a bold choice, but will look fabulous when completed. If you don't have one a jig of some kind is enormously useful even for simple types. You can make one from lego or meccano if you have such things laying around. Personally I always make one up from foam board which only takes about 1/2 hour using some PVA, plan photocopies and a scalpel. Here's the much modified KP DH5 in it's jig to give you an idea. (If you look carefully you'll see the small holes in the wings for the rigging)

 

 

 

 

Can I ask  how you make this? The base looks straightforward, but how do you get the bit that supports the upper wing aligned correctly? 

[Seawinder]

2 hours ago, DaddyO said:

Top tip for superglue application is to stretch some sprue and then trim off the skinny bit; with practice you'll end up with a nice tapered applicator which is stiff enough to get into tight gaps and put a drop precisely where it's needed. Put a small amount of Cyno on a smooth surface (I like to use Pringle tops, but other potato snacks are available)😉 Dip the applicator in the cyano and away you go. When it gets a bit clogged just trim the end and carry on 😁

 

Paul

Hi Paul. Don't know if you saw my query above: I'm wondering where you find 1 lb. test fishing line (which seems really thin, but would be good for radio antenna wires). I've got invisible mending thread, but the lightest fishing line I've found is 2.6 lb. test (.004 inch diameter). I generally use that or 4.9 lb. (.006 inch) for 1/48 rigging.

****

Having just done a bit of searching, I realize that there's a difference between tippet line (which is what I've purchased) and fishing line, so apparently 1 lb. test fishing line is not analogous to 2.6 lb. tippet line in terms of diameter.

Edited June 3 by Seawinder

[Black Knight]

I don't buy fishing line by poundage but by diameter

eg I have 3 spools of 28lb line, left over from sea fishing, and they are 3 different diameters

The lighter lines, thus the thinner, can be bought in fishing tackle shops dedicated to fly fishing or carp fishing. Sea fishing shops will usually only keep the thicker lines

[DaddyO]

1 hour ago, Seawinder said:

Hi Paul. Don't know if you saw my query above: I'm wondering where you find 1 lb. test fishing line (which seems really thin, but would be good for radio antenna wires). I've got invisible mending thread, but the lightest fishing line I've found is 2.6 lb. test (.004 inch diameter). I generally use that or 4.9 lb. (.006 inch) for 1/48 rigging.

****

Having just done a bit of searching, I realize that there's a difference between tippet line (which is what I've purchased) and fishing line, so apparently 1 lb. test fishing line is not analogous to 2.6 lb. tippet line in terms of diameter.

Sorry  I missed the question (cooking tea at the moment so hopping back and forth)

 

I just looked at a local fishing tackle shop for the thinnest line they had. The one i'm currently using is 'Super G-line' which is 0.06mm diameter (1.2lbs breaking strain from memory) I've got some 0.1mm which tends to get a slight kink as it enters the hole although it is easier to handle. On 48th models you can probably afford to go a bit thicker because the angles are not so acute so the kinking isn't as obvious. Personally I like it to be barely visible for this scale; I know others who want a more prominent appearance and add colour to the line with a marker pen or use thicker stuff . . .

 

Paul

[Black Knight]

On holes; I start mine straight into the wing. As soon as the drill starts to cut I angle it in the direction the fishing line is going to go. It has eliminated the kink of a angle

[ssherman]

7 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

On holes; I start mine straight into the wing. As soon as the drill starts to cut I angle it in the direction the fishing line is going to go. It has eliminated the kink of a angle

Good advice thanks.

I find the elasticity of the AK rigging to be frustrating in that it always seems to be shooting off in random directions when I loose my grip on it. It's also so thin and lightweight that it sticks to your fingers or the tweezers just when you have it in position. It's also so thin that the tweezers frequently loose their grip (resulting in the aforementioned slingshot problem). Still, once I've got it in place it looks good. There's no problem with kinking, weird angles, or glue absorption and it's really strong. I gave up on thread because of the scale issue but also because it absorbed the glue, causing unwanted angles and bends. I haven't tried fishing line yet. 

[Brandy]

19 hours ago, DaddyO said:

Sorry  I missed the question (cooking tea at the moment so hopping back and forth)

 

I just looked at a local fishing tackle shop for the thinnest line they had. The one i'm currently using is 'Super G-line' which is 0.06mm diameter (1.2lbs breaking strain from memory) I've got some 0.1mm which tends to get a slight kink as it enters the hole although it is easier to handle. On 48th models you can probably afford to go a bit thicker because the angles are not so acute so the kinking isn't as obvious. Personally I like it to be barely visible for this scale; I know others who want a more prominent appearance and add colour to the line with a marker pen or use thicker stuff . . .

 

Paul

That's exactly what I use, after running it across a silver permanent marker, so that I can see it!

It also doesn't hurt to put a spot of black on the end when you thread it, again, just to help visibility. It won't be seen after it's finished.

 

Ian

[Putty Animal]

Nichrome wire that has been rolled flat makes good rigging. You can get it on spools from places such as the oddly named Crazy Wire Company in the UK, and also from other sellers via ebay etc.

The main advantage is that it's not under tension like thread or elastics and therefore requires less glue, giving a much neater appearance.

 

 

 

[Ger Darkly]

I've used Maxima Chameleon monofilament. It's claimed to be invisible in water, but appears dark reddish brown on the reel. Not prototypically correct for most bracing wires I imagine (maybe ok for antenna wires), but helps with visibility on the completed model - at least against light backgrounds and out of water!

 

It's apparently manufactured from 0.08mm diameter (1lb) upwards, but the image shows 0.15mm/3lb line on a 1/72 model (Matchbox Fury), as that's the smallest I could get at the time.