GiampieroSilvestri Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 (edited) Can anyone explain this?It is not RLM 76. Thank you very much Saluti Giampiero Edited May 20 by GiampieroSilvestri 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werdna Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 There is a (presumably white) outline faintly visible on the fuselage balkenkreuz, so I would suggest that whatever colour it might be is marginally darker. What is the photo source - and is there a caption with it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Barett Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Tall tail, small antenna mast and ring antenna, small wheel wing bulge(s), "mediumish" (not really small not really the long one, maybe slanted in a strange way) tailwheel, Erla hood, smooth MG 131 bulges, so I'd guess G rather than K, no cross on upper wing visible, no spinner (or strange interference with background). Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milos Gazdic Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Which vehicle is the one in the photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Hi the 109 is missing a spinner ? could the 109 be in a primer paint ? 193Sqn found two 109's in primer when they were at antwerp, i have a copy of the photo somewhere in storage, years ago i talked to one of the groundcrew who got it flying cheers jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 This picture comes from the same source - a guy on that "Pinterist" site who seems to have hundreds of photos of derelict 109s and 190s. It may or may not be is not the same aircraft. The guys don't look much like Luftwaffe ground crew. Edit - as below, yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Avia ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milos Gazdic Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 1 hour ago, Ed Russell said: The guys don't look much like Luftwaffe ground crew. True. The vehicle, either - hence my question above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Hallo From my memo: There were some special ops. For suicide attacks. The aircraft were often in a pure RLM 76 color or lighter tone too. There were no markings beside the national and the swatiska. This is confirmed. This pics in particular maybe, could be such one.... Happy modelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Hallo Ground crews for German suicide attacks were a conglomerate of persons far from the rules. So, all I can reconsider on the pictures would be conform with prime sources on this matter. Without proof! Happy modelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilneBay Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Forum won't let me post the image. The vehicle towing the aircraft is a Russian copy (licensed) of a Ford truck. Very widely used in Russia, So I'd say that's from a Russian propaganda movie from WW2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_Union_military_equipment_of_World_War_II Scroll down the page. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werdna Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 1 hour ago, dov said: Hallo From my memo: There were some special ops. For suicide attacks. The aircraft were often in a pure RLM 76 color or lighter tone too. There were no markings beside the national and the swatiska. This is confirmed. This pics in particular maybe, could be such one.... Happy modelling If it's 'confirmed' as you say, then offering some evidence should not be a problem? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Barett Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 1 hour ago, Milos Gazdic said: True. The vehicle, either - hence my question above. I'd call the vehicle a "Somua MCG5 missing the frontal external fuel drum or something like that" until being disproven. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 6 minutes ago, Jochen Barett said: frontal external fuel drum or something like that" I would say you are correct. Well spotted. I think the cylindrical item on the front is a counterweight - useful for towing heavy artillery or tanks but not needed for a 109. https://www.landmarkscout.com/somua-mcg5-french-half-track-artillery-tractor/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 I have seen photos of rebuilt aircraft in overall 76 before being fully camouflaged. Whether this was an equivalent light grey primer I can't say. They do appear lighter than the overall 76 of the high-altitude unit with their G-10s. I doubt that the Russians had enough serviceable 109s by the time it came to produce a propaganda film, and I feel it would have surfaced elsewhere had it been so. As for the various stories about the suicide units - treat most with a large pinch of salt. They have been targets for many writers more interested in sensationalism than historical accuracy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Barett Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 3 hours ago, Ed Russell said: This picture comes from the same source - a guy on that "Pinterist" site who seems to have hundreds of photos of derelict 109s and 190s. It may or may not be is not the same aircraft. The guys don't look much like Luftwaffe ground crew. Edit - as below, yes! The paint on the wing's underside looks glossy to me, kinda "unusual" for a primer type paint. And the "Vorsicht beim Öffnen, Kühler ist im Haubenteil eingebaut" stencil is still in place (or "already"). But I'm missing the oil filler stencil. No ETC under the belly to carry a bomb or the 300 l tank. Rather light landing gear struts and door inside. No tactical yellow marking on the chin detectable to my eyes. Bf 109 experts might wish to comment on the type of oil cooler mounted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiampieroSilvestri Posted May 21 Author Share Posted May 21 16 hours ago, Werdna said: There is a (presumably white) outline faintly visible on the fuselage balkenkreuz, so I would suggest that whatever colour it might be is marginally darker. What is the photo source - and is there a caption with it? A internet search for Messerschmitt Bf 109 K-4 came up with this picture. Saluti Giampiero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycapt65 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 What ever it is, it's not a K4. Wrong wheel bulges and df loop position. That all I got 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiampieroSilvestri Posted May 21 Author Share Posted May 21 (edited) Erla had three Reparaturwerke in Belgium.Could the picture have been taken at one of them? Saluti Giampiero Edited May 22 by GiampieroSilvestri 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CH-53D Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 5 hours ago, Jochen Barett said: I'd call the vehicle a "Somua MCG5 missing the frontal external fuel drum or something like that" until being disproven. Good ID! The missing front drum was an anti-ditching roller, designed to lift the nose over obstacles, and to keep it from sticking into ditch walls. They were pretty common in the late 1930s, particularly on half-tracks, including the early US M3 types. (My other hobby is 1/1 scale military vehicles. 🙂) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Hallo @Werdna, I think of Sonderkommando Elbe for instance. The basic memo is from the book of Hajo Hermann. I saw at some source, maybe FalkeEins or any other, some pics of these aircraft. Most of them were just in a light RLM 76 allover. These Bf-109 were pushed out of factories in a hurry, so without any add on! If I get access to the source of pics, I will add them. Happy modelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 (edited) Hi for comparism photo of one of the 109's captured at antwerp repair facility by 193 Sqn, ( not the same as the photos i have copies of ) https://www.thetyphoonproject.org/raf/John G.-Brown.html both the two 109's were eyewitness groundcrew quoted as being in primer paint cheers jerry Edited May 21 by brewerjerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werdna Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 1 hour ago, dov said: I think of Sonderkommando Elbe for instance. Elbe was not a 'suicide' unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Aereo Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Units flying Bf 109's as top cover for Sturmbock FW 190's had their aircraft camouflaged in RLM 76 all-over, IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milos Gazdic Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 The questions are: Do we see RLM 76? I think we all agree it's not white. It's quite a glossy finish. And stencils are still applied. Lastly, is it a German airfield and equipment or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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