Verifying P-47D markings

[quangster]

Hi modeller friends,

Currently onto my third (3rd) MiniArt jug, I’m considering the P-47D-30 of 397th FS/ 368th FG, flown by 1st Lt Clifford Price in 1945.

According to my research in the web, the plane should look like this:

 

well in accordance with the Superscale/Microscaledecals

 

Then I found a rather colourful profile by noted artist Thierry Dekker

 

Later on I found these two photos on the 368th Fighter Group site:

 

 

Interestingly the fuselage code shows what appears to me like an X instead of the Bar K on the other versions although with the same serial.

The placement and lay out of the nose art are in accordance with the Dekker profile albeit a bit tamer in my vision than the artist’s joyous version.

Like a great man on this site said: don’t trust a profile without a photo. 😜

What do you jug experts think?

Thank you for your comments,

Cheers,

Quang

Edited April 19 by quangster

[stevehnz]

8 hours ago, quangster said:

Interestingly the fuselage code shows what appears to me like an X instead of the Bar K

Looking at the rear most letter, I would stick with K. it is quite a narrow K & the impression of the vertical being bent to form an X is caused by the fuselage curvature as I see it. The rest looks OK to my eye, I'm guessing the yellow tail tip is a unit thing?

Steve.

[72modeler]

If you go to the 368th FG Association website, you can find several photos of the P-47D's you asked about:

http://www.368thfightergroup.com/

 

I found photos of:

33-33576 D3-K underlined,r 'Hard to Get'

44-33136 D3-K

44-21018 D3-X 'The Old Man'

 

I also think your airplane was K rather than X .The K's used on 368th FG  were an unusual style; there was a photo of D3-K and D3-K underlined; if there was more than airplane in  a squadron with the same individual aircraft letter, the letter of the second aircraft was underlined with a bar the same color as the code letter. I found no evidence on the website that there was a Jug with an underllined X  code letter. Hope this helps! Perhaps a shout out to @Tbolt might get you better information.

Mike

 

[Tbolt]

I agree with the others, it doesn't look like an X to me. Thierry's artwork looks the closest K to me so you might want to modify the decals, which have the standard style K on, to match.

 

Note how the top profile you posted shows the girl on the noseart beautifully shaded and the photo of the real thing has no shading, just like the decal.

 

X -

 

 

This is also a K bar it looks very different to the other K with the longer section on the bottom instead of the top.

 

 

 

[quangster]

Thank you @stevehnz @72modeler @Tbolt for responding so quickly.

Soo, it’s definitely a K . Strange how eye vision can vary depending on what one thinks one sees 🫣

 

How about the colour on the canopy frame and the pin up background? As these parts were obviously cannibalized from another plane, I’d rather see them black based on the photographs but… red? What do you think?

In any case, my 3rd MiniArt jug is nearing completion and just waiting for the paint. Hopefully it will appear as a thread in ‘Work in Progress-Aircraft’.

Again thank you all for your input.

Cheers,

Quang

[Tbolt]

30 minutes ago, quangster said:

Thank you @stevehnz @72modeler @Tbolt for responding so quickly.

Soo, it’s definitely a K . Strange how eye vision can vary depending on what one thinks one sees 🫣

 

How about the colour on the canopy frame and the pin up background? As these parts were obviously cannibalized from another plane, I’d rather see them black based on the photographs but… red? What do you think?

In any case, my 3rd MiniArt jug is nearing completion and just waiting for the paint. Hopefully it will appear as a thread in ‘Work in Progress-Aircraft’.

Again thank you all for your input.

Cheers,

Quang

 

In the close up photo it looks like it could be blue, like this one below. But in the other photo it is clearly darker, so maybe it changed to red at some point. The lower cowl flap that could be red or black.

 

 

[quangster]

Like you I think it’s red as well like the backdrop behind the pinup and the lower cowl flap. On the close-up photo, one can discern the thin darker (black?) outline of the extended leg on the slightly lighter background.

Fascinating discussion. Obviously Thierry Dekker never disappoints.🫡

Edited April 20 by quangster

[Phoenix44]

10 hours ago, Tbolt said:

 

In the close up photo it looks like it could be blue, like this one below. But in the other photo it is clearly darker, so maybe it changed to red at some point. The lower cowl flap that could be red or black.

 

, 

 

On that photo I see the OD extending on the fuselage until the fillet. The canopy frame (including the wibdscreen) is blue, as is the fillet, with a wraparound of blue under and over the horizontal stand. I would say (but could be an artifact), the OD, blue and black on the tail all have a cheat line (yellow?) as does the blue flash at the front and the codes. I think it has a blue wingtip and clearly a blue spinner. No idea what's going on by the D. I also think it has a black stripe on the horizontal stab, as D3-K has. I'd guess therefore that underlined K was similar.

 

I'm not sure why the background to the pin-up is red? Red is usually quite pale on b&w film. Its possible there's a green filter in use but that would be quite odd. 

 

[Tbolt]

2 hours ago, Phoenix44 said:

On that photo I see the OD extending on the fuselage until the fillet. The canopy frame (including the wibdscreen) is blue, as is the fillet, with a wraparound of blue under and over the horizontal stand. I would say (but could be an artifact), the OD, blue and black on the tail all have a cheat line (yellow?) as does the blue flash at the front and the codes. I think it has a blue wingtip and clearly a blue spinner. No idea what's going on by the D. I also think it has a black stripe on the horizontal stab, as D3-K has. I'd guess therefore that underlined K was similar.

 

I'm not sure why the background to the pin-up is red? Red is usually quite pale on b&w film. Its possible there's a green filter in use but that would be quite odd. 

 

 

I agree, there was no question about the aircraft in the colour photo, but the canopies on 379th FS aircraft varied - some were blue, the squadron colour, some were unpainted  and possible some were red.

 

As for red appearing darker,  it is fairly common to see red as dark, depending on the filter used, making it almost looking like black in WWII Photos.

 

Red nose Cowl band.

 

 

Red nose cowl band, spinner and bird.

 

 

Red nose band and flash, probably spinner as well on both of these aircraft.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[quangster]

It was a general practice that the nose art shown originated from derelict airframes. The panel containing the pin-up was removed from the donor aircraft and replaced on the newer one. To remove the cowling paint (usually the squadron colour), some didn’t bother to closely follow the silhouette, but removed chunks of the background painting hence the bizarre shape surrounding the image.

Red was the colour of the 395th FS. Incidentally that squadron had the most numerous girlie nose art in the 369th FG. Furthermore I spotted a few examples of 395th FS sporting red canopy frames.

My two euro-cents: could it be that the art work and the canopy on D3-K originate from a former 395 FS plane? 🫣

[Tbolt]

Yes it easily could have been, but I wonder where did SuperScale get the their reference for having the background all blue?