Why is general Patton regarded a great general?

[Meatbox8]

On 3/21/2024 at 2:38 PM, cmatthewbacon said:

If we’re naming great Generals, I’m slightly surprised no one’s mentioned Eisenhower. Probably the best of them all at leading at a strategic level, and delivering war-changing, history making impact. He may not have been a just-behind-the-front-line, binoculars in hand _fighting_ general, but at being a war leader as opposed to a field commander he excelled. Vision, planning, strategy, leadership, “stakeholder” management, a full appreciation of everything that’s needed to fight and win a campaign, courage and belief to execute a decisive thrust that depended on an unprecedented, complex first phase being brought off successfully. And the stick at it-ness to keep momentum going for the next year all the way to the gates of Berlin… which of the other names mentioned in this thread could you swap in to THAT role with any chance of success?

best,

M.

I think Eisenhower's greatest strength was to smooth the animosity between allies, particularly in Normandy. He did receive a considerable amount of criticism though for, as example, having his HQ many miles behind the front line which led to some believing he was out of touch. His advocacy for a broad front advance was also heavily criticised and some believed it prolonged the War. Montgomery and, to some extent Bradley and Patton, believed in a concentration of forces in to a narrow front which would smash through the Seigfried line and drive on to Berlin. This opportunity was lost and it was chiefly down to politics - a factor which Eisenhohower as CinC had to deal with. 

[PF Naughton]

Hi,

I think others have brought up worthwhile points about some of Patton's accomplishments, so I won't repeat them here, but will add that an  additional important point is to look at where Patton more or less started in WWII, where he was sent to take over from General Fredenhall.  A large accomplishment for Patton was in his ability to take what some describe as a somewhat broken command and make it into an effective fighting force.  To me that was prhaps one of his greatest contributions to the war because it helped show that the US forces had the potential to fight toe to toe with the other combatants in the European/Mediterranean/North African theaters.

 

As a side note, while I agree that there were stronger and weaker leaders on all sides during the war, if I were to pick a single leader whom I feel whose reputation might be a bit over praised I would actually probably pick Rommel.  While I do not consider myself to be an expert on military issues and WWII in specific from some of the things that I have read it appears that Rommel had many strengths but that he also displayed many weaknesses too and to be hoenst may have really been in over his head in both North Africa and later in France prior to, during and after D-Day. 

 

When I read about some of his actions both during the initial invasion of France, in North Africa and later back in France there appear to be several instances where his actual ability to be part of a bigger battle, as well as his ability to manage at a level above that of a Division commander actually seem at least partially detrimental to the rest of the forces he was fighting alongside with.  

 

In particular his lack of communications with his high command during the invasion of France left them in the dark and could have had some potential detrimental side effects, as it made it difficult for them to try and coordinate an overall strategy.  Later his potential over reaction at Arra probably helped sow confusion among the German High Command.  And later in North Africa, although I forget the specific battle name, I recall reading how one evening he went off with his command vehicle in search of the UK/Commonwealth rear areas, effectively leaving the rest of his command leaderless, and alos putting himself at a real risk of capture, all for no real gain or benefit.  Additionally, later in/during the aftermath of the 2nd Battle of El Alemain, although it was not totally his fault, he ended up having to withdraw his armored forces at a relatively high speed (at least as far as military units could travel at that time) effectively leading to the Italian Infantry units which had been supporting those armored units to fend for themselves (if I am recalling correctly).

 

In the end to me his biggest/greatest achievement did eventually appear to be the Battle of Gazala,but overall to me he appeared to have too many other questionable lapses in judgement that I am left feeling that perhaps his reputation may in fact be a bit overblown.

[kiseca]

I'm not sure if he's regarded as a great general so much as a famous one. None of the leaders in WW2 seemed to stand out as brilliant in the way that, say, Julius Caesar, Alexander The Great or Subutai do. Churchill for instance had a patchy record up until WW2, but for that conflict he was the right person at the right time.

 

Rommel, as mentioned above, is revered but, again as mentioned, made a few bad decisions. Maybe much of that is with the info we have available now to judge their decisons vs. The info they had available at the time they were making them, which would have excluded the benefit of hindsight to even when it comes to recognising the significance of things they did know at the time. For leaders earlier in history, we have less info and tend to know more the outcome and the basics.

 

Was Patton great? I dunno. Considering how things turned out, I guess we can only say with any conviction that he was good enough. Could anyone else available at the time have done a better job given his command? How would we ever know?  Let the people that served with him and that served for him judge his worth.

[Andreas.R]

Rommel was also mystified by PR measures by the Propaganda Ministry!

I would like to mention General Kesselring, who, as an air force general in Italy, showed amazing abilities as an army leader.

Kesselring had one of the most wide-ranging careers of WWII. A skilled German commander, he was fondly referred to by his admirers as “Smiling Albert.”

He commanded in both the army and air force; took part in diplomacy and political administration and featured in nearly every theater of the war in Europe and the Mediterranean.

In 1939, the long-awaited WWII broke out. Kesselring’s Luftflotte carried out the bulk of the air fighting in Poland.

He got his pilot's license, which he considered necessary in order to be able to understand his pilots as a commander of air force units.

He visited aerodromes to welcome pilots returning from combat.

At times, he directly challenged the orders of his superiors in the German high command.

When given an impossible task, he would advise it could not be done, but always followed orders if they did not listen.

In November 1942, the Allies made advances in North Africa. It was a blow to the Italians, whose colonies and armies were under threat. Kesselring moved to secure a defensive line while awaiting reinforcements.

Under the command of Rommel, the Germans and Italians had some successes against the Allies, but Rommel was another headache for Kesselring, often ignoring his orders.

The arrival of American forces ensured victory for the Allies in North Africa. Kesselring faced a new concern – defending southern Europe from a seaborne invasion.

The Italian government was wavering in its support for Germany. Kesselring’s role became that of a diplomat as much as a soldier, trying to maintain an alliance on its last legs.

He could not fend off disaster. The Italians overthrew Mussolini and switched sides. The Allies invaded Italy and began advancing up the peninsula.

Kesselring oversaw a long fighting withdrawal from Italy. Mussolini was rescued in a daring paratroop operation, and an alternative pro-German government was set up.

Kesselring’s troops forced the Allies to fight a difficult battle for every inch of Italy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gamevender]

Wasn't one of the reasons Patton got all those accolades in part because in post war interviews the German Generals said that he was the one they "feared" the most? Of course, at that point they might have said anything to please their captors.