Vallejo Varnish Issue

[TG28]

I am having an issue with Vallejo Gloss Polyurethane varnish. I am having a problem with it peeling off when I apply the Vallejo wash. I thinned the gloss varnish 50% with Vallejo airbrush thinner and about 25% Vallejo airbrush flow improver. I let the varnish dry about 24 hours in a cold but dry room. I put on the Vallejo wash, wiped it off with water and a papertowel and some of the varnish came off. Does it need to dry longer since I used flow improver? 

[Casey]

Vallejo Polyurethane Varnish should not be thinned, it is made to be applied "as is" out of bottle, so I suspect this is the main issue you might be facing.

[TG28]

I watched multiple videos on the Vallejo YouTube channel and each time the Varnish is thinned, equal parts varnish and airbrush thinner. In one of the videos a few drops of airbrush flow improver were also added. 

[Hunker]

Vallejo varnish is normally pretty decent. I only use the flat and semi gloss, preferring Tamiya for gloss. The only problem I had with vallejo was when I thinned it 50% with their own thinner, applied a wash, and tried rubbing it off with enamel thinner. The varnish came off just as you described. The problem seemed to be too much thinner, though I could have sworn I read or saw a video on their site which said that their varnish could be thinned up to 50% with their own thinner. Strange that on the bottles themselves they only say it can be thinned with water. 

[Casey]

I did saw them too. On their own site they also say "Can be used directly with brush or airbrush of needle size 0.4 mm without dilution". I'd not thin it with anything else than water only if necessary or add anything extra to it because it can make the curing time go towards infinity.

[TG28]

I removed the Vallejo wash with water and it still removed the varnish. I’m new to using and airbrush and decided to go with Vallejo products since they are water based and my local hobby shop carries them. Prior to every step I watch videos on the official Vallejo YouTube channel. He used the gloss varnish, thinned 50% with their thinner. Said he waited 24 hours, applied the wash, then removed the wash with a paper towel and airbrush thinner. Not sure why I’m having an issue. 

[TG28]

My airbrush is a Iwata Eclipse with a .35mm needle. I thought I would start following their instructions from the YouTube channel. The only difference was that I added more flow improver, maybe that is keeping it from curing in 24 hours. I guess I’ll leave it alone for a few days and see if that helps.

[Andrés S.]

I usually use Vallejo satin varnish mixed with 15% or maybe 20% water as a final finish on my models, although it is true that it is the "normal" (?) varnish and not the polyurethane varnish.

 

I have sometimes used it on glossy paints so that other of weatering products, including oil paints and their thinners, can remain on the surface without being extremely easy to remove.

 

In my experience it has never come off when I have used these products, although perhaps it is because it is actually a very different product from polyurethane or it has been applied excessively diluted.

 

Andrés.

[Casey]

1 hour ago, TG28 said:

My airbrush is a Iwata Eclipse with a .35mm needle. I thought I would start following their instructions from the YouTube channel. The only difference was that I added more flow improver, maybe that is keeping it from curing in 24 hours. I guess I’ll leave it alone for a few days and see if that helps.

Your airbrush is good, and Vallejo is not a bad choice - it has its quirks though. My biggest concerns are about the labels they stick on bottles not what is actually in the bottles - the colors equivalences are rather mediocre. Paint itself goes very well if you thin it properly. If you use Vallejo Air - my favorite thinner for this paint is mixture of 70% vallejo flow improver, 30% vallejo thinner and 10% vallejo retarder - I premix that and keep it in a bottle.

 

But I never use that to dilute varnishes that are designed to go straight out of the bottle, and same applies to primers.

 

Sadly, both Vallejo varnishes and primers are rather mediocre, for primers I prefer Stynylrez and for varnishes I stick with artists products, like W&N.

 

 

Edited March 20 by Casey

[TG28]

Thank you Casey. I followed the instructions for the Vallejo primer from one of their YouTube videos and it worked very well. For the colors I used that thinning mixture that you mention, it worked well. So far my only issue is the varnish. I also have a .5mm needle and nozzle so I could try those and see how they work with the varnish right out of the bottle. 

[TG28]

I tried spraying the varnish right out of the bottle with a .5mm needle and nozzle. It didn’t work at all, the varnish is too thick. I put in 8 drops of varnish then added 2

drops of airbrush thinner, it sprayed okay but clogged up the needle pretty quickly. I’ll have to try again and thin it with water and see what happens. 

[TG28]

I tried 70% varnish, 30% Vallejo airbrush thinner, 0.5mm nozzle on my Iwata. I tested on a spoon and it went on really well. Flowed out really nice. I’ll give it 24 hours to cure then try the wash, I’m hopeful it will hold up to the wash and cleaning since it wasn’t diluted much. 

[Casey]

What is your PSI? I usually crank it up for varnishes

[TG28]

25psi, got that from the same Vallejo YouTube video. 

[Casey]

Let's see how it dries/cures when thinned. 25 is bit low for unthinned vallejo varnish, I'd say closer to 40.

[TG28]

Ok thanks. Yea, I’m curious to see how the 70/30 ratio works out when I apply the wash. 

[Andrés S.]

 

I thought that here they were talking about varnishes and not about paints, but since I see that they do talk about paints, the paints considered globally mediocre are the Humbrol, and that's being benevolent...So much so that there are practically no modellers on the planet that uses them, very contrary to the Vallejo, AMMO or AK that are increasingly used. And for some reason it will be. Apparently not much attention is paid to propaganda today.

 

Andrés

[Casey]

7 hours ago, Andrés S. said:

I thought that here they were talking about varnishes and not about paints, but since I see that they do talk about paints, the paints considered globally mediocre are the Humbrol, and that's being benevolent...So much so that there are practically no modellers on the planet that uses them, very contrary to the Vallejo, AMMO or AK that are increasingly used. And for some reason it will be. Apparently not much attention is paid to propaganda today.

I 100% agree with Humbrol Acrylics, I have mostly bad experiences with them (next on the list is Heller paint).

 

Vallejo paint by itself is great, in fact it is one of my favorite modeller ready airbrush paint. The only issue I have with Vallejo (and also AK Interactive) is their color accuracy which is quite poor.

 

To not to be empty handed in this discussion, I've purchased full range of their selected products lines, made hundreds of good quality drawdowns of them and measured them on calibrated spectrophotometer.

 

Here are published measurements for Vallejo AIR:

 

 

The thread above has no cross-reference matches, it is just the data containing the actual colors those paints have.

Edited March 21 by Casey

[TG28]

Just tried the Vallejo Polyurethane Varnish right out of the bottle. Used a 0.5mm nozzle and 40 psi. It sprayed but it’s super thick and doesn’t spray well. I think I’m just going to go with Alclad gloss clear for my gloss coat. It’s thin, sprays well, and should not break down with an acrylic wash.