Thinking of building multiple Harriers 1/72

[Stratto]

Hi all just a general question what is the best 1/72 harrier aircraft kit. Also as I am just getting back in to the hobby would it be good to get a few of the same aircraft different mark like an FRS1 and GR1 or GR3 to do some repetitive builds to hone my skills. Also I love the British engineering of this aircraft. I admire this aircraft so it might keep my mojo alive?

 

I have been looking at the Italeri kits which are based on the ESCI kits as they can be picked up for a fair price. Just to see if I can make a good enough job.

[Richard E]

Hi Stratto

 

Agreed, the Esci/Italeri first generation Harriers are excellent kits which sit comfortably alongside more modern kits, they do need a little bit of work to correct a couple of errors and omissions but there are a large number of builds on Britmodeller which should give you some inspiration.

 

Alongside the kits, can I also point you towards Modeldecal's decal sheets as a source of alternative markings, although they have been out of production for some years I think Hannants may have some in stock and you should be able to find them on Ebay.

 

Hope this helps.

[Stratto]

Thanks Richard E thats a great help thanks

[Richard E]

I won't guarantee it's a definitive list but the Modeldecal sheets which include options for the Harrier and Sea Harrier are: 

 

Harrier GR Mk.3

 

Sheet 46 - 233 OCU

Sheet 74 - 1, 3, 4, 20 Squadrons and 233 OCU

Sheet 78 - 3 and 4 Squadrons ("Matchcoat" grey and green overall test schemes)

Sheet 80 - 1453 Flight (Falklands)

Sheet 94 - 4 Squadron "special tail" scheme

 

Sea Harrier FRS Mk.1

 

Sheet 65 - 899 NAS - EDSG and White scheme

Sheet 66 - Operation Corporate/Falklands Campaign

Sheet 67 - Operation Corporate/Falklands Campaign

Sheet 70 - 800 NAS, 801 NAS and 899 NAS post Falklands schemes

Sheet 71 - 809 NAS Falklands scheme

Sheet 75 - 809 NAS (Aircraft Names) 

[Dave Swindell]

10 hours ago, Richard E said:

I won't guarantee it's a definitive list but the Modeldecal sheets which include options for the Harrier and Sea Harrier are:

Harrier GR Mk.1

 

Sheet 7 - 1 Squadron

 

Sheets 74 & 75 also have options for T2/T4/T4N

[Stratto]

Great source of information have been looking on Hannants but in short supply. Thanks Dave for the help. I just need to decide if I should do an OOB or add some aftermarket and try some PE or extras. I think the ESCI one I have will be bare OOB to get a feel for what is available. 

[Giorgio N]

I can only agree on the positive comments regarding the Esci first generation Harriers, very nice kits and proof that things like crisp moulding and good fit have been around for many, many years...

 

Regarding aftermarket, IMHO the weakest area in these kits is the cockpit that is very empty. The seats are also not representative of the real things, being more similar to a simplified Stencel seat of the US AV-8As. A resin MB Mk,9 for the GR and Mk.10 for the SHAR would sort the matter... keeping in mind that IIRC no resin Mk.9 on the market really represent the variant used on the Harrier but are all Jaguar seats. In any case I used a Pavla Mk.9 on one of my Harriers in the past and looked convincing enough.

The problem in using an aftermarke seat is that the rear cockpit bulkhead is not correctly angled in these kits, so the resin seat may not fit in the correct place. I can't remember any resin cockpit for the Esci kits, I have vague memories of a Heritage white metal set but this would likely be hard to find. Eduard has a PE set for the Sea Harrier though and this should be easier to find.

 

One other area that would benefit from aftermarket or scratchbuilding are the intakes that represent the side auxiliary intakes in the closed position, good for an aircraft in flight but not a parked one. Pavla had a set with the upper auxiliary intakes correctly open but it's unfortunately out of production (also included resin exhausts).  Don't know if there's anything else around. IIRC Heritage also did a similar set but this is also long OOP

 

Other bits: Master makes brass pitot tubes for all variants, I feel that the Sea Harrier in particular would benefit from one of these. On my Sea Harrier I'm also considering replacing the pylons with the Quickboost parts made for the Airfix kits, just because these are more detailed (and would correct one problem, the presence of a bulge unde the outer pylon that would only be present when the pylon is not in place... easy to sand the bulge from the wing but then the pylon would need filling).

[Stratto]

Thanks Giorgio N I will check this out it very much work in progress try one kit see how we go and get the best result with what is available. Something to keep me interested.

[BuNo02100]

Does anyone know how much aftermarket has been produced for the newer Airfix 1/72 kits that could rhrn be adapted to the ESCI kit?

[stever219]

The latest generation of Airfix “tin wing” Harriers are good representations of the jet but the Sea Harriers leave quite a lot to be desired accuracy-wise.  Like all 1/72th Harriers there’s not a lot going on in the cockpit but the instrument panel decals look a lot closer to the real thing than that in the ESCI kit.  The GR. 3 lacks the fin tip extension of the real jet but Freightdog Models do/did a replacement.  You can, of course, build an early, pointy-nosed, GR. 3 straight from the kit using suitable markings and colour scheme.  IIRC Freightdog also produce a Blue Eric-fit gun pack for an Operation Corporate GR. 3 to park alongside your Black Buck Vulcan.

[iainpeden]

@Stratto, the Esci kits are excellent, the Esci decals are old and have a tendency to disintegrate if anywhere near water. Its possible to use them if you apply copious amounts of decal film but better to aim for newer decals. That said, I did have some Modeldecals break up recently - but I guess the last of those were printed 20 years go.

[Dave Swindell]

18 minutes ago, iainpeden said:

@Stratto, the Esci kits are excellent, the Esci decals are old and have a tendency to disintegrate if anywhere near water. Its possible to use them if you apply copious amounts of decal film but better to aim for newer decals. That said, I did have some Modeldecals break up recently - but I guess the last of those were printed 20 years go.

Don't forget that Italeri have had these moulds for quite a while and have reissued these kits in several boxings, the decals in these should be much better than an original ESCI release

https://www.scalemates.com/search.php?fkSECTION[]=Kits&q=Hawker Siddeley Harrier&fkSCALENORMALISED[]="1:00072"&fkTYPEGROUP[]="Hawker Siddeley Harrier"&fkCOMPNAME[]="Italeri"

Most cockpit detailing aftermarket appears to be aimed at the Airfix kits, it may take some adapting to fit the ESCI/Italeri mouldings

https://www.scalemates.com/search.php?fkSECTION[]=Kits&q=Hawker Siddeley Harrier&fkSCALENORMALISED[]="1:00072"&fkTYPEGROUP[]="Hawker Siddeley Harrier"&fkTYPENAME[]="Detail and Conversion sets"&ssearch=&

[Stratto]

These are the ones I have been looking at and answers a question I had the Italeri GR3 kit old ESCI from 2008 is still available kit number 1278 and 1401 from 2014 going by what is being said the newer kit would have better decals is this a good way to look at it Dave?

[Dave Swindell]

2 hours ago, Stratto said:

These are the ones I have been looking at and answers a question I had the Italeri GR3 kit old ESCI from 2008 is still available kit number 1278 and 1401 from 2014 going by what is being said the newer kit would have better decals is this a good way to look at it Dave?

Just to be clear, there's nothing wrong with the design or printing of the ESCI decals, the only problem is their age which will be min 35 years. The Modeldecals mentioned above will be of a similar age. The Italeri decals will be less than half that age, maximum, and there are several more schemes available depending on which boxing you have. If you've not bought yet I'd have a preference for the Italeri kit because of the younger decals, but if you're offered an ESCI kit at a good price I wouldn't reject it out of hand, especially if you can source spare decals. With an older boxing I'd suggest testing the decals by applying one or two of the decals from the scheme you're not using onto an old kit to see haw they behave - if they're still nice and soft and adhere well, no problem, but if they're brittle and break up you might be able to rescue the remainder by applying a layer ot two of varnish or liquid decal film over them, try it on a couple more of the alternate scheme decals and see if that works, if it doesn't you'd probably be best looking for newer aftermarket decals (or spares from an Italeri kit if you're building multiples!)

[cerperal]

The Airfix tin wings are a joy to build with very nice decals and selection of stores,  but there's a noticeable lack of panel detail and as others have noted the cockpits are pretty sparse - which to be fair is standard for your average 1/72 kit prior to the past few years. 

 

The Airfix SHARs go together nicely but especially in the case of the FRS.1 don't look particularly like Sea Harriers due to the completely wrong canopy shape (ironically it's correct in the ancient 1/48 SHARs). The Airfix kits are also still in 'new' circulation and are rather expensive - over £20 now new.

 

If you wanted to build a plastic Harrier then the Airfix GR7/9 is by far the best kit of one. It's superb on all accounts.  

[Stratto]

I am going to start with some 1/72 kits like the Airfix Harrier https://www.scalemates.com/kits/airfix-a04050a-bae-harrier-gr7a-gr9--1397434 and the old ESCI moulds by Italeri https://www.scalemates.com/kits/italeri-1401-harrier-gr3--1029890 and see how I get on. I love the Harrier so will not be disappointed. 
 

Thanks Cerperal I picked up a gr7/9 for around £17 on a deal so good option as you suggest.

[Giorgio N]

The decals in an Italeri issue of the Esci harriers will sure be better in terms of useability as they will be newer. The latest issues are also generally pretty good in terms of film and adhesion.

Where Italeri decals do not shine is often in the accuracy, particularly when it comes to the stencils. These are often too big compared to the real things, quite noticeable for example on the red lines around the engine panels, that are very typical of the Harriers.

The Airfix decals on the contrary are very good in every respect but as others have said their Sea Harriers are pretty inaccurate.

Fortunately there are or have been a number of aftermarket sheets on the market. others have discussed the Modeldecals sheets and I can add the set that Xtradecals dedicated to the Falklands Harriers and the couple made by Microscale/Superscale. Sky Models from Italy also made a sheet with many aircraft that unfortunately are not always accurate. It is however interesting as includes a number of less seen options, like the Belize based 1473 Flt. GR.3s, the Falklands based 1453 Flt. GR.3s and the early Harrier Conversion Unit GR.1s. The sheet is OOP but worth buying if you see one at a decent price.

 

Regarding using aftermarket items made for the Airfix kit on the Esci/Italeri ones, when it comes to the Sea Harriers there's quite a difference in width, the Airfix kit having a wider cockpit. The intakes are also designed quite differently so it would be very hard to use these.

External parts (pylons, pitots) are of course much less of a problem.

[Airbusboy]

15 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

Where Italeri decals do not shine is often in the accuracy, particularly when it comes to the stencils. 

One thing to mention regarding the decals supplied with their "The Falklands" FRS.1 is that they incorrectly supply a scheme for ZD608, claiming it as an 801 NAS flown from HMS Invinsible, May 1982. Unfortunately, this particular machine did not see conflict in The Falklands and wasn't, I believe, built until 1985.

Edited March 12, 2024 by Airbusboy

[Richard E]

1 hour ago, Airbusboy said:

Unfortunately, this particular machine did not see conflict in The Falklands and wasn't, I believe, built until 1985.

 

Correct - it the airframe was delivered to the Fleet Air Arm on 17 October 1985.

[meindert]

Some 28 years ago I made with my modelling friend Bas a big Harrier kit comparison article, it shows the older kits.

 

Check out at the IPMS.NL In Dutch , but Google translate might work...

 

https://www.ipms.nl/artikelen/specials/hawker-harrier-special/harrier-modellen-overzicht

[Giorgio N]

12 hours ago, Airbusboy said:

One thing to mention regarding the decals supplied with their "The Falklands" FRS.1 is that they incorrectly supply a scheme for ZD608, claiming it as an 801 NAS flown from HMS Invinsible, May 1982. Unfortunately, this particular machine did not see conflict in The Falklands and wasn't, I believe, built until 1985.

 

Unfortunately not surprised, Italeri are not new to similar errors.

Another decal accuracy issue is in the British roundels in their first issue of the Sea Harrier, that are closer to the A type than to the proper postwar type. I'm sure that digging deeper we'd find more errors...

 

[RichG]

Here's a fairly recent build of the ESCI Sea Harrier FRS.1 that I came across recently. Don't know if its any help for you but perhaps for a few pointers or a bit of inspiration? 🤔

 

 

[Dave Fleming]

On 11/03/2024 at 10:10, Giorgio N said:

Regarding aftermarket, IMHO the weakest area in these kits is the cockpit that is very empty. The seats are also not representative of the real things, being more similar to a simplified Stencel seat of the US AV-8As. A resin MB Mk,9 for the GR and Mk.10 for the SHAR would sort the matter... keeping in mind that IIRC no resin Mk.9 on the market really represent the variant used on the Harrier but are all Jaguar seats. In any case I used a Pavla Mk.9 on one of my Harriers in the past and looked convincing enough.

The problem in using an aftermarke seat is that the rear cockpit bulkhead is not correctly angled in these kits, so the resin seat may not fit in the correct place. I can't remember any resin cockpit for the Esci kits, I have vague memories of a Heritage white metal set but this would likely be hard to find. Eduard has a PE set for the Sea Harrier though and this should be easier to find.

 

An interesting tale on Ejection seats on ESCI harriers - my go to always used to be the Aeroclub mk 9 and 10. the problem is they were 'true' /72, but didn't fit in the too small ESCI cockpit. So the answer was always to lower the cockpit floor and extend the cockpit back (The kit seats only being a 'front', you needed more room to ensure the headrest was in the right place.) Fast forward to a couple of years ago, and I run out of Aeroclub seats, look around and find a Pavla seat. Order that, and whilst awaiting delivery start on the cockpit modifications. Only to discover when it arrives, the seat is scaled for the kit and my surgery was needless!

Edited March 12, 2024 by Dave Fleming

[Stratto]

I have ordered a couple of ejection seats to try CMK Q72235 mk9 so I will see how they fit 

[Stratto]

Just looking at some Harrier details and it mentions N04 squadron two tone green/grey wraparound excuse my ignorance does that just mean the whole aircraft? All around it.