There's something about it, I just can't put my finger on it...

[Alan P]

Turkey celebrated the first flight of its home-produced Kaan 5th Gen fighter this week.

https://theaviationist.com/2024/02/21/turkish-kaan-national-combat-aircraft-flies-for-the-first-time/

 

I don't know about you, but its design might not be entirely original 🤔

[SprueMan]

It looks like an Aliexpress version of the KF-21

No, in seriousness. Realistically, all 5th generation fighters are going to use the principles of the F-22/F-35. It has shown itself to work well in terms of both flight dynamics and stealth. What is more interesting is what goes inside the planes of tehnology

Sensors, radar and computers are going to set all of these planes apart and I think the various SU-57, KF-21, Happy Funky Dragon Chinese fighter are far behind the F-35.

[dov]

Wonderful!

As the world is round, things are the same in each country, people are bright there!

I got other items from Turkey,  which is so smart, they have good ideas too.

Let us see what this aircraft can do!

The US thought about decades,  they are the only  wisd one. It is a refreshment to see others too!

Happy modelling 

[FatFlyHalf]

Must have bought a kit and scaled it up.

[Bozothenutter]

So, the intakes run straight?

Missed a trick there...

[Head in the clouds.]

Looking stealth and being stealth are two different things. I recently read an article that purported to state that the SU57 Felon had an RCS equal to an F18E/F.

[FalkeEins]

.. why did they even bother? Surely all the important bits (engines etc) had to come from abroad... 

[JohnT]

@Alan P @SprueMan

 

I wonder if we are getting into an area where externally fighter designs look the same rather like modern airliners. The real differences will be under the skin and in the capability of their computers and sensor packages and the integration of same with other aircraft and platforms 

 

Will the 21st Century top gun be more a geek than a Captain Kirk I wonder????

 

[SprueMan]

Well, in my completely unqualified opinion we might see a complete change in the 6th generation as the requirement for vertical stabilisers goes away as there will be lot less need for air combat with long range missiles, drones and even lasers and we will end up with a different selection of flying wings.

 

Vertical surfaces are not good for stealth.

[exdraken]

If everyone us stealth, I fear visual? ID confirmation etc will come important again... and thus manoeuvrability and jamming resistant guns?

 

 

 

[SprueMan]

I would say there is more to it.

Apart from radar and radar stealth, there is also infra red, heat signature etc. which can be used to track a plane, all of which are better than the naked eye.

One of the piece d'resistance of the F-35 is the fusing of all sensors like radar, RWR and a full view infrared (distributed aperture system) that is projected directly into the pilots augmented reality headset. The rumoured visibility of the DAS IR system is to be +100miles in good weather and it can track missiles 800miles away, officially.

An American general has said that (current) stealth might be defeated in 10-15 years, but then someone will just make a better stealth.

 

Lasers are now being tested in effect against drones and missiles. It will not be long before they will be small enough to be pit on an airplane, powered by an onboard APU. Lasers that are housed in a small continuously stabilised head pivoting in all aspects are going to be much more efficient than a simple gun that is bore sighted only to the plane's axis. Faster, more accurate and cheaper.

 

Also, loyal wingmen like the Valkyrie and Ghost bat are being developed already that will make the fighter pilot a ...pilot... of drones swarming around his plane. I could well imagine the 6th generation "fighter" to be a big mothership of a plane sending swarms of its missile or laser armed drones out hundreds of kilometres out to shoot and fight while staying in the safe zone behind the enemy's drones and their missiles.

 

Sadly, I do not think "romantic" dogfights are going to make a return

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

On 4/15/2024 at 5:07 PM, SprueMan said:

Sadly, I do not think "romantic" dogfights are going to make a return

I agree with 99% of everything you said but this last bit. ⬆️ I still think we will have dogfights between 2nd and 3rd tier air forces in brushfire wars. Using older 4th gen. fighters as they fall on the 2nd & 3rd hand market. Im thinking of countries in Africa, South America, South and central Asia ? The U.S., NATO, and varied Pacific allies will be concentrating on Europe, the Middle east, N.Korea, and China to worry or spend time on stopping/interceding in these smaller wars. 
 

 

[Dave Wilko]

On 4/15/2024 at 11:07 PM, SprueMan said:

I would say there is more to it.

Apart from radar and radar stealth, there is also infra red, heat signature etc. which can be used to track a plane, all of which are better than the naked eye.

One of the piece d'resistance of the F-35 is the fusing of all sensors like radar, RWR and a full view infrared (distributed aperture system) that is projected directly into the pilots augmented reality headset. The rumoured visibility of the DAS IR system is to be +100miles in good weather and it can track missiles 800miles away, officially.

An American general has said that (current) stealth might be defeated in 10-15 years, but then someone will just make a better stealth.

 

Lasers are now being tested in effect against drones and missiles. It will not be long before they will be small enough to be pit on an airplane, powered by an onboard APU. Lasers that are housed in a small continuously stabilised head pivoting in all aspects are going to be much more efficient than a simple gun that is bore sighted only to the plane's axis. Faster, more accurate and cheaper.

 

Sadly, I do not think "romantic" dogfights are going to make a return

One read an article a short while ago in which a single F-22 went up against a flight of F-18's in ACM.

The F-22 "killed" them all BVR and was totally invisible to the F-18's.

One pilot said that it was most disconcerting to hear the F-22 pilot telling them he had them "locked up"and was launching at them(Fox1,Fox.2,etc).

The F-22 pilot said that the F-18's were totally defenceless against him and that "shooting them down" was like clubbing seals.

Edited April 25, 2024 by Dave Wilko

[Dave Wilko]

On 4/14/2024 at 4:11 PM, Head in the clouds. said:

Looking stealth and being stealth are two different things. I recently read an article that purported to state that the SU57 Felon had an RCS equal to an F18E/F.

Read that one's self too,enhanced photographs have revealed that the Su-57 Felon is no where near as stealthy or as advanced in it's electronic suite's performance as the Russians like to proclaim.

It has also been revealed that the "super" engines it is claimed to use are exactly the same as fitted to the Su-35 Flanker.

 

It is suspected that the Su-57 hasn't seen combat in the Ukrainian combat theatre's air space because should one be shot down by Ukrainian air defences,it's advanced technologies(sic.)may fall into the wrong hands(U.S.A?).

[PhantomBigStu]

On 4/14/2024 at 4:11 PM, Head in the clouds. said:

Looking stealth and being stealth are two different things. I recently read an article that purported to state that the SU57 Felon had an RCS equal to an F18E/F.

Yes according to official specs it is indeed the same as the super hornet, and it’s not like the Russians haven’t been found out to be slightly fibbing in the official specs of other stuff recently……

[Dave Wilko]

A possibly good comparison 'twixt F-22 Raptor and Su-57 Felon:

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-su-57-felon-is-marketed-as-stealth-fighter-but-it-has-the-same-rcs-of-a-clean-f-a-18-super-hornet-and-1000-times-bigger-than-that-of-the-f-35-heres-why/?_gl=1*1gbnope*_up*MQ..*_ga*NzM0Njg0MTU2LjE3MTQwNzE5Mzk.*_ga_BSTDKRXWSF*MTcxNDA3MTkzOS4xLjAuMTcxNDA3MTkzOS4wLjAuMA..