Fairey Delta 2 Violet colour help

[Paul Lucas]

@Nobby Clarke, yes I meant '797', it was a typo, thank you for pointing it out. I have now corrected it.

 

Thanks also for confirming the presence of FS 17142 in the 1956 issue of FS 595. Do you know the month FS 595 was issued? I ask because if it was later than January, there will be a problem with chronology unless this colour had also been included in TT-C-595 of 1950.

 

At the moment, I think that @Troy Smith was somewhere close to the truth when he suggested that Mr Ward gave the FS 17142 reference as being the best available match in an available standard. 

 

So as to be absolutely clear, the Mr & Mrs Director passage was pure whimsey on my part.

[HL-10]

If I may slightly sidetrack this thread briefly but what would be the correct cockpit colour for WG777?

The plans say black, but photos of the cockpit in Cosford all show a light grey 😕

[gamevender]

This is what she looked like at Cosford last fall. 

 

[71chally]

2 hours ago, HL-10 said:

...what would be the correct cockpit colour for WG777?  The plans say black, but photos of the cockpit in Cosford all show a light grey 😕

Period pictures show a predominantly black cockpit, it is now now however a mid grey.  British instrument panels and cockpits did tend to become grey in the early to mid 1960s, my guess is that the FD2 cockpit was repainted in line with this.

35 minutes ago, gamevender said:

This is what she looked like at Cosford last fall. 

That's the BAC.221 WG774 at the FAAM Yeovilton.

[HL-10]

3 minutes ago, 71chally said:

Period pictures show a predominantly black cockpit, it is now now however a mid grey.  British instrument panels and cockpits did tend to become grey in the early to mid 1960s, my guess is that the FD2 cockpit was repainted in line with this.

Thank you 

[71chally]

I think we can waffle on about FS numbers all day long.  

But I still think it's something as simple as someone saw the colour on an automobile and thought I like that.

 

I would be surprised if the colour change wasn't documented by Fairey, I know Ian Huntley had a large Fairey archive, but I don't know what happened to it.

[gamevender]

71chaly. Sorry for any confusion. The original post in this thread was asking about WG774's color. 

[scautomoton]

And as the OP I can confirm I've located the colour I intend to use

 

But a fascinating discussion nonetheless, which is what makes this forum so engaging!

[Nobby Clarke]

On 2/24/2024 at 1:40 AM, Paul Lucas said:

@Nobby Clarke, yes I meant '797', it was a typo, thank you for pointing it out. I have now corrected it.

 

Thanks also for confirming the presence of FS 17142 in the 1956 issue of FS 595. Do you know the month FS 595 was issued? I ask because if it was later than January, there will be a problem with chronology unless this colour had also been included in TT-C-595 of 1950.

 

At the moment, I think that @Troy Smith was somewhere close to the truth when he suggested that Mr Ward gave the FS 17142 reference as being the best available match in an available standard. 

 

So as to be absolutely clear, the Mr & Mrs Director passage was pure whimsey on my part.

@Paul Lucas I do not have a complete copy of TT-C-595, but FS 595 issued on 1 March 1956, includes a cross-reference to the corresponding 4-digit TT-C-595 colours in Table XII. Since there is no cross-reference given for FS 17142, I think it's safe to assume that it was a new colour. FS 17142 is listed in FS 595 Table XI - Safety Colors which identifies eight colours but offers no further explanation. I believe these eight colours correlate with ASA Z53.1-1953, “Safety Color Code for Marking Physical Hazards and the Identification of Certain Equipment,” American Standards Association, 1953. www.ansi.org. However, I have been unable to find a copy of this standard on the internet. The point of all this is that there was possibly paint available that corresponded to the eventual FS 17142 color from 1953 when the Safety Colors were standardized. 

Now we're truly down a rabbit hole.

[Yes_Man]

On 23/02/2024 at 21:00, Casey said:

I have original 595 and some further ones up to and including AMS which effectively replaced FS. They have some colors removed as well as replaced or added over time, some were moved to military only AMS deck which I also have. Once I am back on the US soil I have on my TODO list a "make FS over the ages" compilation which I plan to post. If you think of any special FS colors I should focus on, let me know.

Apologies all for resurrecting an old thread but Google returns this as the top result when searched so I think it's relevant to ask here rather than create a new one.

 

@Casey I don't suppose you could provide a Tamiya LP mix for FS595a FS17142? It seems to be an elusive colour in regards to paints, and especially for lacquers. The Dora Wings kit instructions call out for BS796 Dark Violet but it seems too dark to me compared to the photos so I'm happier to go with FS17142 even if it's an equivalent.

[scautomoton]

7 hours ago, Yes_Man said:

Apologies all for resurrecting an old thread but Google returns this as the top result when searched so I think it's relevant to ask here rather than create a new one.

 

@Casey I don't suppose you could provide a Tamiya LP mix for FS595a FS17142? It seems to be an elusive colour in regards to paints, and especially for lacquers. The Dora Wings kit instructions call out for BS796 Dark Violet but it seems too dark to me compared to the photos so I'm happier to go with FS17142 even if it's an equivalent.

I went with AK Interactive AK3094. Its sat on the shelf waiting for the day. Scalemates shows its a reasonable colour match. The problem is that all photos of WG774 in this scheme look different in terms of hue

[Casey]

12 hours ago, Yes_Man said:

I don't suppose you could provide a Tamiya LP mix for FS595a FS17142?

This color really needs specific pigment, I only have limited selection of LP's and I can't make this color without it.

 

The alternatives I have are:

Liquitex Basic Fluid:

17142
    Target: #9F5981, Mixture: #A2577F
        Alizarin Crimson Hue Permanent: 3 parts
        Unbleached Titanium: 1 part
        Brilliant Purple: 2 parts
        Medium Magenta: 7 parts
  
    D65 (daylight) DE00: 0.99

 

Golden Fluid Acrylics:

17142
    Target: #9F5981, Mixture: #9F577F
        Titan Buff: 8 parts
        Primary Magenta: 4 parts
        Quinacridone Violet: 2 parts
        Cobalt Blue: 1 part
    
    D65 (daylight) DE00: 0.55

 

This is rather unique color and not much in the typical modeler paint range

 

[Space Ranger]

Might this be a use for all those tins of Humbrol’s Polish Crimson? 🤣

[Yes_Man]

24 minutes ago, Casey said:

This color really needs specific pigment, I only have limited selection of LP's and I can't make this color without it.

 

The alternatives I have are:

Liquitex Basic Fluid:

17142
    Target: #9F5981, Mixture: #A2577F
        Alizarin Crimson Hue Permanent: 3 parts
        Unbleached Titanium: 1 part
        Brilliant Purple: 2 parts
        Medium Magenta: 7 parts
  
    D65 (daylight) DE00: 0.99

 

Golden Fluid Acrylics:

17142
    Target: #9F5981, Mixture: #9F577F
        Titan Buff: 8 parts
        Primary Magenta: 4 parts
        Quinacridone Violet: 2 parts
        Cobalt Blue: 1 part
    
    D65 (daylight) DE00: 0.55

 

This is rather unique color and not much in the typical modeler paint range

 

 

Thanks so much for checking. Its uniqueness is what made me want to do the Delta in it. Don't have many strange pinkish/purple aircraft on the shelf! Think I'll try my hand at the Liquitex mix and if that goes belly-up fall back on the AK3094 suggestion as above.

[wellsprop]

On 24/02/2024 at 13:45, 71chally said:

I think we can waffle on about FS numbers all day long.  

But I still think it's something as simple as someone saw the colour on an automobile and thought I like that.

 

I would be surprised if the colour change wasn't documented by Fairey, I know Ian Huntley had a large Fairey archive, but I don't know what happened to it.

 

Yep, without the original paint scheme drawings, it's all just random guessing.

 

And then we can have the argument about which shade of Specification 123 Colour ABC is correct, and which modelling paint company makes the most accurate paint 🙃

[scautomoton]

6 hours ago, wellsprop said:

 

Yep, without the original paint scheme drawings, it's all just random guessing.

 

And then we can have the argument about which shade of Specification 123 Colour ABC is correct, and which modelling paint company makes the most accurate paint 🙃

Personally, I'm happy that its close enough, and when it sits on the shelf hiding amongst the others it stands out in a sea of NMF and camo!