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Oxford Blue query


perdu

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I am having trouble reconciling the hue of the Vallejo colour they sell as Oxford Blue with the deeper density colour I see on photographs of Royal Navy Lynx aircraft.

 

I have a Colourcoats Oxford Blue which also says it's Roundel blue on the tin but I can't use enamels these day

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction for an acrylic which will do the job please 

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Bill - I think Hakata do an Oxford Blue in one of their Modern RAF paint sets - can't remember which one off the top of my head. I've not used it so can't comment on its fidelity to the real thing...

Nige

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35 minutes ago, Galligraphics said:

Bill - I think Hakata do an Oxford Blue in one of their Modern RAF paint sets - can't remember which one off the top of my head. I've not used it so can't comment on its fidelity to the real thing...

Nige


Modern RAF set 4 , with a red/white/blue Tornado on the box.

 

 

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I am not 100% but pretty certain that Oxford Blue and Roundel Blue are not the same - Oxford is much deeper (darker?) Open to be corrected!

 

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8 hours ago, perdu said:

I am having trouble reconciling the hue of the Vallejo colour they sell as Oxford Blue with the deeper density colour I see on photographs of Royal Navy Lynx aircraft.

This being Model Color 70.807 ?

 

As I have said before, Vallejo have a special colour blind baboon they keep blindfolded in a dark room to pick their colour names.  Or they might as well have.

 

DO NOT TRUST ANY OF THEIR DESCRIPTIONS, even the stated 'matches' for FS595 or RAL,  they are usually not quite right...  

 

Sadly you need to do a brush out and compare to a known standard.  

 

8 hours ago, perdu said:

 

I have a Colourcoats Oxford Blue which also says it's Roundel blue on the tin but I can't use enamels these day

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction for an acrylic which will do the job please 

You may need to mix.

 

@Casey  may have a out the pot match,  the Vallejos I have are too intense blues.    There are Tamiya mixes. 

 

3 hours ago, Spad said:

I am not 100% but pretty certain that Oxford Blue and Roundel Blue are not the same - Oxford is much deeper (darker?) Open to be corrected!

 

BS381c 105 Oxford Blue is sold by Colourcoats as wartime blue, the very dark blue used between 1938 and 1946.

 

Pre and post war roundel blue is lighter and brighter, which is BSC381C 110 Roundel Blue

 

HTH

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12 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

may have a out the pot match,  the Vallejos I have are too intense blues.    There are Tamiya mixes. 

I do, actually.

 

Targets set: BSI 381C
Target: 105 Oxford Blue
    Matches in: Revell (compared with 86 samples)
        DE00: 1.70 - 36350 | Lufthansa blue | RAL 5013 | GU 19.6
       100x100100x100
    Matches in: Vallejo Air (compared with 254 samples)
        DE00: 2.51 - 71.090 | Deep Sky | Azul Oscuro | FS35056 | GU 1.9
       100x100100x100

 

Vallejo Air is too intense. but Revell is not tragic.

 

If you are okay with mixing, here are much more accurate mixes for some paint ranges:

 

Tamiya Acrylics (by VOLUME)

105 Oxford Blue
        XF-1 Flat Black: 2 parts
        XF-8 Flat Blue: 15 parts
    D65 (daylight) DE00: 0.83

 

Tamiya Lacquers (by VOLUME)

105 Oxford Blue
        LP-82 Mixing Red: 6 parts
        LP-51 Pure Orange: 1 part
        LP-68 Clear Blue: 36 parts
    D65 (daylight) DE00: 0.27

 

Golden Fluid Acrylics (by MASS)

105 Oxford Blue
        Carbon Black: 2 parts
        Ultramarine Blue: 40 parts
        Titanium White: 3 parts
    D65 (daylight) DE00: 0.23

 

Liquitex Basic Fluid (by MASS)

105 Oxford Blue
        Mars Black: 4 parts
        Phthalocyanine Blue: 12 parts
        Quinacridone Magenta: 11 parts
        Titanium White: 3 parts
    D65 (daylight) DE00: 0.53

 

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5 hours ago, Casey said:

I do, actually.

 

Targets set: BSI 381C
Target: 105 Oxford Blue
    Matches in: Revell (compared with 86 samples)
        DE00: 1.70 - 36350 | Lufthansa blue | RAL 5013 | GU 19.6
       100x100100x100
    Matches in: Vallejo Air (compared with 254 samples)
        DE00: 2.51 - 71.090 | Deep Sky | Azul Oscuro | FS35056 | GU 1.9
       100x100100x100

 

Vallejo Air is too intense. but Revell is not tragic.

Casey thank you, and you too gentlemen, Troy, Nige, Dave and Spad.

 

I knew asking you here was the way out of my dilemma, not sure why I even thought trusting Vallejo was a good idea, I've seen enough fantasy colouring from them before.

 

I have found a single box of Hataka Royal Air Force set 4 on 'the 'bay' and as I write it is winging its was 'me'wardly but in  the mean time experiments with Tamiya will occur in the garage

 

Your welcome interventions save me from driving round chasing paints which my LMS has removed from the stock list requiring me to go further afield for it.

 

It is without a doubt that this is the best 'place' I have ever discovered on the interweb.

 

Thank you all.

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8 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

This being Model Color 70.807 ?

 

As I have said before, Vallejo have a special colour blind baboon they keep blindfolded in a dark room to pick their colour names.  Or they might as well have.

 

DO NOT TRUST ANY OF THEIR DESCRIPTIONS, even the stated 'matches' for FS595 or RAL,  they are usually not quite right...  

 

Sadly you need to do a brush out and compare to a known standard.  

 

You may need to mix.

 

@Casey  may have a out the pot match,  the Vallejos I have are too intense blues.    There are Tamiya mixes. 

 

BS381c 105 Oxford Blue is sold by Colourcoats as wartime blue, the very dark blue used between 1938 and 1946.

 

Pre and post war roundel blue is lighter and brighter, which is BSC381C 110 Roundel Blue

 

HTH

 

In fairness to Vallejo, 70.807 does not claim to be matched to any specific paint, just carries the generic name Oxford Blue. We could then debate if this is actually the colour as codified by the University of Oxford or if it's just a dark blue using that name

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True but they often stretch my imagination Giorgio and they do SEEM to aim at modellers needs in their paint ranges don't they.

It might/would take a massive effort for them to comply but it would be marvellous if they could run a colour comparison app to help us.

 

The actual paint they make suits my modelling needs very much otherwise, it's simply the fantasy naming policy that jibes against me. 

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17 minutes ago, perdu said:

True but they often stretch my imagination Giorgio and they do SEEM to aim at modellers needs in their paint ranges don't they.

It might/would take a massive effort for them to comply but it would be marvellous if they could run a colour comparison app to help us.

 

The actual paint they make suits my modelling needs very much otherwise, it's simply the fantasy naming policy that jibes against me. 

 

The Model Color range really is aimed more at figure modellers than us aircraft modellers. Some colours are supposed to be for aircraft but they are rarely that accurate... said that, there are a number of their colours that while meant for something else are actually quite good for certain aircraft schemes.

The Model Air range is different as this includes a good number of paints supposed to represent FS or RAL or BS paints.... they sometime do and sometime don't. I agree that Vallejo should improve their accuracy with these paints although in fairness their latest attempts seem to be much better than the earliest.

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11 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

T

 

BS381c 105 Oxford Blue is sold by Colourcoats as wartime blue, the very dark blue used between 1938 and 1946.

 

Pre and post war roundel blue is lighter and brighter, which is BSC381C 110 Roundel Blue

 

H

There is a potential can of worms (and a side track) as I have come across a references to pre-1965ish roundel blue (deliberate lower case, before BS381C came into use for Mil colours) being matched to 108 Aircraft Blue, the basis being that pre- and post WW2 roundel blues and 108 used Ultramarine as the pigment, where as 110 used phthalocyanine blue. This appeared on a Wiki page with no verification, but seems strangely specific. (I have seen mention elsewhere that aircraft blue was a closer match, but to my eye the colours are almost identical)

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3 minutes ago, Dave Fleming said:

There is a potential can of worms (and a side track) as I have come across a references to pre-1965ish roundel blue (deliberate lower case, before BS381C came into use for Mil colours) being matched to 108 Aircraft Blue, the basis being that pre- and post WW2 roundel blues and 108 used Ultramarine as the pigment, where as 110 used phthalocyanine blue. This appeared on a Wiki page with no verification, but seems strangely specific. (I have seen mention elsewhere that aircraft blue was a closer match, but to my eye the colours are almost identical)

 

Paul Lucas mentioned this in a thread I started after having read the use of 108 in an issue of section 33B of AP-1086

 

 

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This is getting interesting, I hope the Dull Men's Club never finds out I'm looking interested.

 

I bet they'd kick me out

 

And give me a chinese burn

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1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Paul Lucas mentioned this in a thread I started after having read the use of 108 in an issue of section 33B of AP-1086

 

 

 

Ah, missed that one  - the use of the synthetic pigment vs Ultramarine might be the reason for change  - and the Wiki might be right, even allowing for no attribution!

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19 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

and the Wiki might be right, even allowing for no attribution!

Wiki has this weird rule about not allowing primary sources being used as attribution, only secondary (aka books or articles that themselves may use primary stuff)

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This discussion has reached a happy ending for me at least.

 

Yesterday after reading though the links and advice here I found Models For Sale had the Hataka RAF Vol 4 set available and went online to buy it, OK happy with that and arriving by Monday.

 

Today Postie made a noise jamming something into the letterbox and voila

 

17086976999263491481786081585671.jpg

 

Very very pleased with that service

 

And happy enough to go with that colour

17086977503206426480830139248087.jpg

 

I know let's illuminate that

 

17086977795691918213503196459473.jpg

 

So much better than the almost purple Vallejo hue huh?

 

Now I am getting the build sorted, the nose section is now firmly placed in place and I think I have sorted out where the MAD gear will be settled

 

On with the game, broken windows to sort.

 

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That is indeed good service - colour me impressed…

I may have to investigate them next time instead of a certain Lowestoft-based lot…

Edited by Galligraphics
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