WeekendModeler Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Can anyone please tell me what is going on with the colors on this Corsair? An Atlantic FAA Corsair is next in my queue. While searching for painting references, I found this brilliantly colored picture. I'd like to replicate this mismatched scheme for my kit. To my eyes, there appears to be five top colors (six if you include the light grey on the port aileron). I know very little about FAA color schemes. From my research, nearly every source I've read states the top colors of FAA Corsairs were the "Temperate Sea Scheme" of Dark Slate Grey and Extra Dark Sea Grey. Adding to the confusion, I've seen what appears to be two depictions of this scheme: one being a dark grey and dark green while the other appears to be a dark green and lighter green. This picture encapsulates all of those colors. Are these just various shades of DSG and EDSG? "1" and "2" seem to match the common depictions of EDSG and DSG. However, "2" looks like it could be the same green as that on the Spit/Seafire. "6" is definitely the grey (Ocean Grey?) on the Spit/Seafire. So would that make "2" Dark Green to go with Ocean Grey? 1. Extra Dark Sea Grey ? 2. Dark Slate Grey (or Dark Green) ? 3. Another shade of Extra Dark Sea Grey ? 4. Another shade of Dark Slate Grey ? 5. Yet another shade of Extra Dark Sea Grey ? 6. Ocean Grey ? My apologies if I've missed this exact topic in my searches of the forum. Thanks for your patience with this newbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Maybe just weathering and touch-up repainting answers most of your query? Newly appliedpaint often looks different to worh and faded paint. I hope you have enough information to build this Corsair - it would make a great model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 58 minutes ago, WeekendModeler said: nearly every source I've read states the top colors of FAA Corsairs were the "Temperate Sea Scheme" of Dark Slate Grey and Extra Dark Sea Grey. Adding to the confusion, I've seen what appears to be two depictions of this scheme: one being a dark grey and dark green while the other appears to be a dark green and lighter green. This picture encapsulates all of those colors. Corsair for the FAA were painted is US ANA equivalent colors, US paints that were acceptable to the British. Earlier orders used US made MAP equivalents which were very close to British spec, Grumman used them, while when Eastern started building Avengers they used the equivalent colors... In this the EDSG was replaced by ANA 603 Sea Gray, DSG by ANA 613 Olive Drab, and the underside in ANA 61O Sky, which was an oddity as it was made just for the British... As to the Corsair in the pic, looks to be an early birdcage canopy shunted off to a land based training unit, and likely touched up with British colours... I think more is known on the pic and its location @iang @Casey HTH 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 From the @Etiennedup collection. https://www.flickr.com/photos/8270787@N07/3032770628/ Mill Meece (also Millmeece) was a training establishment for WRNS maintenance personnel. Note that it is securely lashed down so the wings don't fold on the ladies. https://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/FAA-Bases/Millmeece.htm It would make a great little diorama or vignette model. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) To add to what @Troy Smith said - MAP and US ANA equivalent colors were not identical, they were sometimes not even that close, which adds to the confusion. Vendors sometimes claim their one bottle fits both (like Vallejo 71.108 which by magic is Uk Azure Blue, FS35231 and ANA609) or simply just use the US colors to represent MAP shades (Hataka Sky for example) Edited January 7 by Casey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeekendModeler Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 (edited) Thanks everyone for the replies. I had read that US equivalent paints were used, but there were no ANA numbers referenced in any of those sources. I assumed they were paints made for the British contracts that didn't quite match the originals; not existing ANA paints. There is this picture of Corsairs in use as trainers in the US that certainly appear to be ANA 603 and ANA 613. The other greener shades on the Mill Meece Corsair are not present. So, I'm assuming, as you all suggested, those were paints (pictured in various forms of fading/weathering) applied to the Corsair at some point after arriving in Britain. I had seen the Mill Meece picture cited as from a mechanic training station at Mill Meece in 1944. It appears to be mid-year based on the foliage. So, presuming the Corsair, being a bird cage variant, was one of the first to arrive in Britain in late '43, the plane had already seen several months of use and would have likely received some repainting. The port wing from the folding point out appears to from another plane entirely. I think I have a solid starting point now with ANA 603, ANA 613, and Vallejo's EDSG and DSG, which resemble the greener shades on the starboard wing. Thanks again everyone for the information. Edited January 9 by WeekendModeler 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeekendModeler Posted May 27 Author Share Posted May 27 An (overdue) update. As my name suggests, I have very little time available when it comes to the hobby... and I have several builds going at once. I just finished shooting the outer port wing, and here's what I've got so far. 1. 3:1 ANA 603 and Sky Grey FS 36463 2. 2:1 BS 639 and ANA 612 3. BS 634 4. BS 639 5. BS 640 6. Sky Grey FS 36463 All colors or Vallejo. I'm satisfied with 1, 2, 4, and 6. However, 3 and 5 appear a bit off or lighter. 5 is actually closer than my pic presents, but I'm still going back and forth on reshooting it with a mix of ANA 612 and BS 640. Or I'm just going to leave both as-is and try to darken with a filter. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milos Gazdic Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Incredibly coloured image in the first post. Do you, by any chance, have a B&W version of the same photo? Also, do you think that the port wing could have been a replacement from US aircraft past the folding mechanism with the overpainted fresh colour on top of it (based on your colourized image)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 2 hours ago, Milos Gazdic said: based on your colourized image It;s original WW2 colour, not a colourised image 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Extra Dark Sea Grey starts very dark but lightens and the blue shows through more. As in the photo immediately above. It has no green in it. Dark Slate Grey is a greenish-grey (or a greyish green, if you prefer it that way). It is not a grassy-green nor a brownish olive. Unlike some profiles in the past, they are not two shades of a grey nor of a green. The early US equivalent colours were, in these cases, a very good match, as can be seen in quality colour photographs from Grumman. This is generally true of paints from Dupont and Fuller, with qualifications over Sky. The ANA colours were later in an attempt to standardise hence reduce ptroductin costs and were known as substitute colours, because US colours were allowed to be substituted for the correct British ones. Thus you see these Corsairs with visible production numbers (suggesting that the photo was taken at Vought before acceptance) and similarly P-51s. Aircraft that were delivered to the UK for equipment fit were often repainted into correct colours, whereas those going directly to operational theatres were left in their delivery paint. The original picture shows an aircraft at a maintenance training school, so well-weathered colours and perhaps even exchanged wings are not surprising. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85sqn Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 It's a fascinating photo that one. A birdcage Corsair in the UK was a rarity. With only 95 in British service, most lived in the States for pilot training and conversion onto the Corsair before the squadrons were issued with IIs and IIIs. I think your on to the right 'thing' with a mix of the ANA colours and repaints in British stocks. Of interest, what you think the serial is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 Good luck with finding a serial. The only identifiable Millmeece aircraft noted is a Sea Hurricane coded Y1-I. Y1 is the code for Yeovilton, suggesting Millmeece did not have a unique code. https://www.search.staffspasttrack.org.uk/details.aspx?ResourceID=28450&ExhibitionID=28450&PageIndex=2&SearchType=2&ThemeID=352 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 There seems to be a choice of eight confirmed, plus JT105 of which nothing is known - but JT104 and JT106 came to the UK so I assume JT105 did too. JT113,114 and 115, Also JT118. 119, with JT120,121 nothing known. JT126. JT106 was still flying at Worthy Down in 1945, JT119 crashed in 1945, JT113,114 flying in mid 1944. There seems to be nothing on the others beyond mid 1943. Take your pick. Maybe there'll be more in the new edition of FAA Aircraft of WW2, when it appears. The histories presented don't seem to go beyond the flying units with a few exceptions, but I can't find Mill Meece mentioned. Is it a substation of some better known station that might he included? It's in Staffordshire, which doesn't seem promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenS Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 Mill Meece, aka HMS Fledgeling, was a training establishment for WREN aircraft maintenance ratings between 1943 & 1946. Seemingly no runways, with 1 hangar & 2 aircraft sheds (I.e. what is visible in the wide photo of the Corsair) and a single dispersal area. Home to instructional airframes only. So it's entirely possible that that Corsair, and the other aircraft, had been mucked about, parts replaced, repainted etc, all in the name of training WRENS who go on to service aircraft at other bases. https://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/FAA-Bases/Millmeece.htm Info taken from a 1945 RN handbook of Naval Air Stations. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 2 hours ago, Graham Boak said: There seems to be a choice of eight confirmed, plus JT105 of which nothing is known - but JT104 and JT106 came to the UK so I assume JT105 did too. JT113,114 and 115, Also JT118. 119, with JT120,121 nothing known. JT126. JT106 was still flying at Worthy Down in 1945, JT119 crashed in 1945, JT113,114 flying in mid 1944. There seems to be nothing on the others beyond mid 1943. Take your pick. I don't think it was likely any of them came back into flyable form after being declared Instructional Airframes, so it seems a reasonable punt to rule out 119 and 106. I wish we had a reliable data for the photo, as that might enable elimination of 113 and 114. Anything for which "There seems to be nothing on the others beyond mid 1943" seems like a good option to pursue as a likely candidate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 Yes, but 105,120 and 121 could have gone straight into constructional airframes. If but maybe perhaps: three seems a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milos Gazdic Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 Why are Donald Ducks so often painted on Corsairs in New Zealand & UK? Why not some other Disney character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fukuryu Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 19 minutes ago, Milos Gazdic said: Why are Donald Ducks so often painted on Corsairs in New Zealand & UK? Why not some other Disney character? Because he was a sailor? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 Story is when Donald Duck was created, he was given a sailor suit since ducks like water. A lot of the earlier shows he was featured as serving in the US Army, which probably more than anything else, made the character relatable to those that joined the service at that time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 4 hours ago, Milos Gazdic said: Donald Ducks so often painted on Corsairs in New Zealand There were only a handful (3-4) RNZAF Corsairs of the 400 plus received that had an "Angry Duck" motif, There were other RNZAF aircraft (Anson/Dauntless come to mind) that wore a Donald Duck or similar too Regards Alan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milos Gazdic Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 1 hour ago, LDSModeller said: There were only a handful (3-4) RNZAF Corsairs of the 400 plus received that had an "Angry Duck" motif, Yes. Apparently by videos I've watched recently 6 of them. But still... no other characters there. BUT I think the explanation the guys mention above explains things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Milos Gazdic said: es. Apparently by videos I've watched recently 6 of them. But still... no other characters there. Going slightly OT here The Duck Motif was likely a SU (Servicing Unit) motif. The SU's owned the aircraft RNZAF Corsairs also tended to have"Pet"/Nicknames such as: Struggle Buggy Patricia Mary Kohimarama IX Tutue Wera Alma and so on RNZAF Avengers tended to have a number of Disney characters, but other aircraft in the RNZAF inventory had Disney Characters also Some characters ended up on more than one aircraft type RNZAF PBY5 Catalina's who carried out "Dumbo" missions (SAR) had a wing elephant painted on their bow area for each successful mission The Disney Movie "Fantasia" characters were a favourite it seems. Regards Alan Edited May 29 by LDSModeller 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggy Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 Cartoons go to war --- LINK -- http://axis-and-allies-paintworks.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?id=13058 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Sinclair Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 USN says Corsair acceptances for the RN started in May 1943, Air Britain says at least 16 mark I sent to Britain, Import report says 11 mark I imports, 8 in July, 2 in September and 1 in October 1943, mark II imports started in November 1943. Many Corsairs etc. arrived in Britain as part of naval units and were therefore not counted as imports. Air Britain Lend Lease Aircraft book's list, JT100 Crashed in US JT101 Crashed in US JT102 At pier or loaded JT103 Crashed in US JT104 No information JT105 No information JT106 No information JT107 At pier or loaded JT108 At pier or loaded JT109 At pier or loaded JT110 Crashed in US JT111 Crashed in US JT112 To Britain JT113 To Britain JT114 To Britain JT115 Crashed in US JT116 Crashed in US JT117 Crashed in US JT118 To Britain JT119 Crashed in US JT120 To Britain JT121 To Britain JT122 At pier or loaded JT123 At pier or loaded JT124 Crashed in US JT125 At pier or loaded JT126 To Britain JT127 Crashed in US JT128 At pier or loaded JT129 Crashed in US JT130 At pier or loaded JT131 Crashed in US JT132 Crashed in US JT133 Crashed in US JT134 At pier or loaded JT135 To Britain JT136 Crashed in US JT137 Crashed in US JT138 Crashed in US JT139 Crashed in US JT140 Crashed in US JT141 To Britain JT142 Crashed in US JT143 Crashed in US JT144 Crashed in US JT145 At pier or loaded JT146 At pier or loaded JT147 At pier or loaded JT148 To Britain JT149 Crashed in US JT150 Crashed in US JT151 Crashed in US JT152 Crashed in US JT153 To Britain JT154 Crashed in US JT155 Crashed in US JT156 Crashed in US JT157 Crashed in US JT158 At pier or loaded JT159 At pier or loaded JT160 Crashed in US JT161 To Britain JT162 Crashed in US JT163 Crashed in US JT164 Crashed in US JT165 Crashed in US JT166 To Britain JT167 At pier or loaded JT168 At pier or loaded JT169 Crashed in US JT170 Crashed in US JT171 Special Duty (USN stations or RN Abroad) JT172 Special Duty (USN stations or RN Abroad) JT173 At pier or loaded JT174 To Britain JT175 Special Duty (USN stations or RN Abroad) JT176 Crashed in US JT177 To Britain JT178 Crashed in US JT179 Crashed in US JT180 Special Duty (USN stations or RN Abroad) JT181 Special Duty (USN stations or RN Abroad) JT182 Crashed in US JT183 To Britain JT184 Special Duty (USN stations or RN Abroad) JT185 At pier or loaded JT186 Crashed in US JT187 At pier or loaded JT188 Crashed in US JT189 Crashed in US JT190 Crashed in US JT191 Crashed in US JT192 Special Duty (USN stations or RN Abroad) JT193 Special Duty (USN stations or RN Abroad) JT194 At pier or loaded 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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