Questions about FG.1 & FGR.2 camouflage schenes & colirs.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

        Hello everyone .. Quick questions about FG.1 and FGR.2 Phantoms. Everything Ive been able to find says the camouflage is the same standard colors. Light grey belly with upper colors being dark sea grey and Dark green. Am I correct they never wore the complete wrap around in this color-scheme ? I think they went to the grey camouflage’s. The 1st being overall light aircraft grey. The other being  light aircraft grey under Barley grey & medium sea grey. I think the change occurred sometime in 1980 or not too long after this ? I have 4 or 5 sets of 4 view drawings of each pattern. I was curious if I missed a complete wrap around pattern on Phantoms while searching. Thank you in advance for any help given. 
 

Dennis

[David Womby]

You are correct. RAF Phantoms  never wore the wraparound camo.

 

David

[Julien]

Some nice Phantom Phootage here

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060022081?fbclid=IwAR0CJf8Blbm2b1FsXemTwscMnCD4JvOUDo7zJYOj6v33vk07BRWUHsjwrvQ

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

36 minutes ago, Julien said:

Some nice Phantom Phootage here

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060022081?fbclid=IwAR0CJf8Blbm2b1FsXemTwscMnCD4JvOUDo7zJYOj6v33vk07BRWUHsjwrvQ

 

1 hour ago, David Womby said:

You are correct. RAF Phantoms  never wore the wraparound camo.

 

David

Thank you good sirs, both bits of info help in my quest. Julien that film was quite good, took several screen shots to help with my future build.  

[Buz]

Corsair

 

Which aircraft are you planning to make and what timeframe?

 

Buz

[Robert]

The Modeldecals of the period are my go to about colours. I would send a scan but am not around today, sorry.

 

Regards

Robert 

[71chally]

RAF Phantoms in camouflage were painted in the then standard Dark Sea Grey BSC.381/638, Dark Green 381/641, with Light Aircraft Grey 381/627 undersides.

 

Phantoms never went to the wraparound scheme as the type had been retired from the ground attack/reconnaissance role by the time that scheme was being introduced in the late 1970s, remaining as a fighter which didn't receive that scheme.

Roundels and fin flashes did go from the three colour type to two tone tactical type in the early 1970s.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by 71chally

[Jabba]

The first 2 aircraft painted in overall Lt Aircraft Grey were done in late 1978, these being XV474 and XV418.

[Hook]

4 hours ago, 71chally said:

RAF Phantoms in camouflage were painted in the then standard Dark Sea Grey BSC.381/638, Dark Green 381/641, with Light Aircraft Grey 381/627 undersides.

Pylons on RAF Phantoms in this scheme were usually gloss white instead of LAG, with leading edges of the inboard ones usually in DSG.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

Edited November 18, 2023 by Hook

[Selwyn]

15 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

        Hello everyone .. Quick questions about FG.1 and FGR.2 Phantoms. Everything Ive been able to find says the camouflage is the same standard colors. Light grey belly with upper colors being dark sea grey and Dark green. Am I correct they never wore the complete wrap around in this color-scheme ? I think they went to the grey camouflage’s. The 1st being overall light aircraft grey. The other being  light aircraft grey under Barley grey & medium sea grey. I think the change occurred sometime in 1980 or not too long after this ? I have 4 or 5 sets of 4 view drawings of each pattern. I was curious if I missed a complete wrap around pattern on Phantoms while searching. Thank you in advance for any help given. 
 

Dennis

RAF Phantoms were never overall light grey, they were  painted Camoflage Grey (originally unafficially  known as  barley grey until encompassed in BS381c ) with light aircraft grey undersurfaces and inner wing surfaces (basically the non folding bit) medium sea grey.

 

Selwyn

[71chally]

18 hours ago, Selwyn said:

RAF Phantoms were never overall light grey

As Dennis says (and per Jabbas' post) the first aircraft to trial the defence grey scheme was XV474 in an overall Light Aircraft Grey scheme, from October 1978 with 56 Sqn.  XV418 wore a similar finish while with 92 Sqn RAFG.

I think they both emerged from St Athan in the new schemes.

XV486 also briefly operated in this scheme with the OCU, but perhaps it was left in overall light grey after the bright Alcock & Browne IAT markings had been removed from it.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by 71chally
Sqn correction

[junglierating]

Ooh found myself getting excited by taking apart ERUs🤔

[Fat fingers]

We did have a cab on 56(f) Sqn in the mid 80's (kilo if I remember correctly), which had the green and grey cammo scheme but had a light grey nose cone!

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

15 hours ago, Buz said:

Corsair

 

Which aircraft are you planning to make and what timeframe?

 

Buz

This what I am still trying to decide. I am angling towards mid to late 1970’s and either 29, 56, 92, or 111 Squadrons. I would prefer the green, grey, over grey but will switch to the all grey scheme if needed. Already have decals for Treble one but know the others are out there. 

 

2 hours ago, Fat fingers said:

We did have a cab on 56(f) Sqn in the mid 80's (kilo if I remember correctly), which had the green and grey cammo scheme but had a light grey nose cone!

Now that would be a different look ? 

[Hook]

12 hours ago, Fat fingers said:

We did have a cab on 56(f) Sqn in the mid 80's (kilo if I remember correctly), which had the green and grey cammo scheme but had a light grey nose cone!

It happened the other way around as well, several air superiority grey RAF Phantoms flew with black radomes.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[71chally]

15 hours ago, Fat fingers said:

We did have a cab on 56(f) Sqn in the mid 80's (kilo if I remember correctly), which had the green and grey cammo scheme but had a light grey nose cone!

Also seen pics of a 19 or 92 Sqn Phantom with similar, I guess those radomes took a beating!

[Duncan B]

2 hours ago, Hook said:

It happened the other way around as well, several air superiority grey RAF Phantoms flew with black radomes.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

There was at least one that flew around with an unpainted radome for a short while too (long enough to be photographed anyway).

 

Duncan B

[71chally]

This is the one I was thinking of, XV490/S

 

F-4M Phantom FGR.2 XV490 Sierra taxies out for departure from RAF Valley's runway 14, 92 Squadron Missile Practice Camp, 1985. by Phil Bradshaw, on Flickr

 

This might be the one that Duncan refers to,

http://www.thephantomshrine.co.uk/raf56/56.htm

 

[Jabba]

The nose cone was easily swapped between aircraft when required. This is how 56 Sqn managed to get their Shark mouthed nose cone to be seen on more than one aircraft.

 

4 hours ago, Duncan B said:

There was at least one that flew around with an unpainted radome for a short while too (long enough to be photographed anyway).

 

Duncan B

That was XV570 (BN) according to the British Phantoms Pt2 by Double Ugly books.