HMS Abelia K184 - Flower Class Corvette 1/350 - Black Cat Models

[robgizlu]

22 hours ago, dickrd said:

 

Rob, This is not true I'm afraid. A majority were probably red. But I would be very interested to know where "all the evidence" that you have seen is as it needs correcting. Richard 

Hi Dick, when I first came to ship modelling a few years ago I took my steer from Bob Pearson’s corvette site and the Flower class forums.  Bob asserted that he had colour film of a Canadian corvette with an unequivocal black anti-fouling bottom and felt that “nearly all” Canadian vessels were so coated.  Threads on the Flower forum suggested that some RN ships wore black (and presumably the rest rest red or other).  By “evidence” I mean the original photos.  The anti fouling on Amelia matches the dark colour of the pennant number and to my mind that equates to black.  The same was true for Eyebright.  I’m conscious that the directive was to take the camo colours down to and over the boot topping and I have presumed that these most often did not feature on earl to mid war corvettes.  The single photo of Mignonette is inconclusive and doesn’t really show the anti-fouling/?boot topping.  I’m very conscious of your excellent piece on anti-fouling.  The other belief that I seem to have garnered, co-incidentally is that “all” Coastal Craft vessels had black bottoms - be interested to know your thoughts?  I’m always keen to get it as accurate as possible and realise there is a phenomenon that modellers will copy other modellers and propagate a false and null “assertion”.  What we really need is an up to date publication on RN colours and schemes reflecting that the last was printed nearly 40 years ago, have you had any thoughts towards this?  I would absolutely love and value one!

Regards 

Rob

[robgizlu]

15 hours ago, beefy66 said:

Well just having a catch up after some time away and you have been a bit of a busy boy there Rob looking very good.

 

Stay Safe

beefy

Good to have you back.  I’ve tagged you and am away so will go dark for a while😉

[robgizlu]

11 hours ago, Courageous said:

And what does these look like as I need something like that for my Fushimi build?

And he's off and it was going so well .

 

Stuart

Sorry Stu, Big Boys made me do it (and my newly retired wife)😎

Search on EBay for Modelkasten rigging wire and hold onto something when you see the price - they,ve definitely gone up!!!
I use 0.6 and below, probs 0.3 most often.  A reel will last a LONG time if that’s any help and Yes I think it’s worth the hit

Rob

[Courageous]

3 hours ago, robgizlu said:

Search on EBay for Modelkasten rigging wire and hold onto something when you see the price - they,ve definitely gone up!!!

Ouch but it is an idea. So, how do you use it in this build to replace the buckles or is it the case of tiny hole...

 

Stuart

[robgizlu]

1 hour ago, Courageous said:

Ouch but it is an idea. So, how do you use it in this build to replace the buckles or is it the case of tiny hole...

 

Stuart

Hi Stu, I just place a spot of CA gel glue with an acupuncture needle and place the wire on that touching the other end to where I want it.  The wire self- straightens over lengths up to 3-4cm.

HTH

Rob

[Faraway]

5 hours ago, robgizlu said:

Modelkasten rigging wire

Well scared the wotsit out of my credit card.

I’ve got some Nickel Silver Rod in 0.2 and 0.1 mm made by Albion Alloys, I can’t remember where I got it, but one of the online model shops in the UK. It wasn’t that expensive. It’s in 305mm lengths.

Jon

[dickrd]

On 11/27/2023 at 7:03 AM, robgizlu said:

Hi Dick, when I first came to ship modelling a few years ago I took my steer from Bob Pearson’s corvette site and the Flower class forums.  Bob asserted that he had colour film of a Canadian corvette with an unequivocal black anti-fouling bottom and felt that “nearly all” Canadian vessels were so coated.  Threads on the Flower forum suggested that some RN ships wore black (and presumably the rest rest red or other).  By “evidence” I mean the original photos.  The anti fouling on Amelia matches the dark colour of the pennant number and to my mind that equates to black.  The same was true for Eyebright.  I’m conscious that the directive was to take the camo colours down to and over the boot topping and I have presumed that these most often did not feature on earl to mid war corvettes.  The single photo of Mignonette is inconclusive and doesn’t really show the anti-fouling/?boot topping.  I’m very conscious of your excellent piece on anti-fouling.  The other belief that I seem to have garnered, co-incidentally is that “all” Coastal Craft vessels had black bottoms - be interested to know your thoughts?  I’m always keen to get it as accurate as possible and realise there is a phenomenon that modellers will copy other modellers and propagate a false and null “assertion”.  What we really need is an up to date publication on RN colours and schemes reflecting that the last was printed nearly 40 years ago, have you had any thoughts towards this?  I would absolutely love and value one!

Regards 

Rob

 

Ah, I did not get the impression from Bob's website that he felt the majority of RCN corvettes had black lower hulls.  Anyhow, re corvettes in general, some were black, some were red, some were grey depending on which manufacturers' product was used and whether Admiralty or merchantile quality. To know which for a particular ship you would need to see her docking reports. I think there were something like 294 Flower Class corvettes built and I have been able to track down the records of 37 of these. For the remainder it is a question of whether anything can be gleaned from photos, film or perhaps artwork and after that statistical probability.  Given that Admiralty policy should have resulted increasingly in the use of reduced mercury (merchantile) or non-mercurial quality anti fouling from three of the bottom paint manufacturers on corvettes (the RN ones at least) when using their products, and given that these came only in red, red bottoms should, statistically, have become increasingly common on corvettes as the war wore on.

 

I should say though that something I have not been able to confirm is whether the Canadian subsidiaries of the UK paint manufacturers produced their anti fouling paints for the RCN in the same colours as their UK parent companies did in the UK for supply to the RN. Frustratingly, whilst recording the name of the manufacturer, not one of the Canadian corvette D495s I have seen recorded the colour of the anti fouling paint. But I think one has to say that it seems unlikely that a Canadian subsidiary would manufacture the same product in a different colour to the UK parent company's product. 

 

Bottoms of Coastal Forces craft is an area I have not really looked into. But in the course of my research re (metal) ships' bottoms I have taken copies of anything I have come across. So I do know that special anti fouling products were used on the wooden bottoms of MTBs and similar craft. But they were made by Moravia, Clarks, International, MacArthurs, Red Hand, British, and Algicide ie some of the very same companies that made the RN's anti fouling paints for metal bottomed ships.  Unfortunately I don’t recall coming across these paints for wooden bottoms being listed in the Rate Books or I am sure I would have taken copies of them. So I cannot confirm whether or not all their colours varied in the same way as for metal ships. However one wartime AFO happens to mention that an International anti fouling coating for wooden bottoms was red so variation of colour does seem likely.

 

Combining all that with this contemporary wartime colour image of MTB 486 in Ramsgate harbour I think we can safely say that not "all" Coastal Forces craft bottoms were black.

 

Re a book, it progresses - but slowly! 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2024 by dickrd

[robgizlu]

Sorry for the tardy response @dickrd, I've been away.  Thanks for the image of the BPB vessel!  Never say never 

Given what you've said and with Mignonette being modelled from late 41/1942, I'll likely do her with a Red anti-fouling bottom, unless you know of a reason not to.

 

That book can't come soon enough!!!  Can I reserve my copy now Please?

Cheers

Rob

[robgizlu]

A while back I bought some Modelspan (Silkspan) paper to experimet with some sail making - pretyy much aiming for what @thekz has done with his 27ft cutter.  I experimented using this versus cigarette paper for splash screens around the bridge.  The Modelspan won, conforming to the railing contours more naturally after being "washed" with very dilute PVA.

 

 

 

Next bits were fitting the Carley float platforms - Abelia had a pair each side behind the ship's boats platforms.  Some of the kit etch was repurposed and 2 new ones were made with Plastruct strips

 

 

Unusually Abelia had ladders froom the aft deck up ontot he forward Carley platforms....

 

 

The forward platforms will have angled supports that I've nicked from the Long foc'sle offering

 

 

And I'd liked to have shown you shots of the mast stepped and rigged but sadly after spending 90mins rigging it - I knocked it down 

 

So start again with a new mast which is currently drying under primer.

I'd hoped to have this done by Xmas but that doesn't look like it's going to happen

Thanks for looking 

Rob

[Bertie McBoatface]

28 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

after spending 90mins rigging it - I knocked it down

No-oooo! Condolences.

[Faraway]

Very nice.

Jon

[beefy66]

21 hours ago, robgizlu said:

So start again with a new mast which is currently drying under primer.

I'd hoped to have this done by Xmas but that doesn't look like it's going to happen

 

I can totally relate to that best laid plans and all.  

 

But all is looking very good so far so no rush not yet anyway.  

 

Stay Safe

beefy

[Courageous]

Looking very nice, love the Silkspan screens although I'd be tempted to paint them. Not so clever is knocking down of the mast but a second build will make it better and stronger.

 

Stuart

[Faraway]

54 minutes ago, Courageous said:

Silkspan

Never heard of this, where do you get it ?

Jon

[robgizlu]

13 hours ago, Courageous said:

Looking very nice, love the Silkspan screens although I'd be tempted to paint them. Not so clever is knocking down of the mast but a second build will make it better and stronger.

 

Stuart

Painted.  New mast stronger.

 

13 hours ago, Faraway said:

Never heard of this, where do you get it ?

Jon

 

Hi Jon - now marketed as Modelspan - do a google search - lots of suppliers, the RC aircraft use it to dope wings etc.

BUT - looking at the pics I've posted it looks crude   And for the top tier of railings (not yet fitted) I've returned to Cigarette paper - I feel I may have inadvertently misled you ! 

And in a similar vein of contrition - let the record show that the stretched metal funnel stays sagged.  There is positively nothing worse than a saggy funnel stay 

So they were replaced with the tried and trusted Bob's buckles and Infini lycra thread that in fact looks better by far.  Lesson learned.

Rob

[robgizlu]

The mast is stepped (take 2)  

 

 

Interestingly - no matter how hard I look I cannot see any ariels or stays running aft from the mast

 

 

The paired Carley platforms each side are complete as are the funnel paltform railings with cowl vents added.

 

 

 

The rear sweeping winch is a thing of beauty

 

 

I need another good 8 hours to see this through and sadly that ain't going to happen this sdie of Xmas and possibly New Year.  I'm now firmly on sous-chef duties!

 

So it's an opportunity to see how I fared comparing my last years modelling resolution - I wrote this on Dec 21st last year

 

"A provisional build list is as follows:

 

1)  Complete HMCS Eyebright

2)  Build the P2000 Archer class to iron out any issues before...

3)  Building HMS Severn

4)  HMT Sir Lamorack

5)  River Class Frigate HMW Wye

6)  LCT-5 in Holland with a Low altitude Barrage Balloon

7)  Finish the AVRE, now that DEF models have done a resin Canvas mantle "

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So altogether not bad.

Here are my provisional builds for 2024

 

- finish HMS Abelia

- finish HMS Mignonette

- HMS Abercrombie

- HMT Lamorack

- HMS Euralys

- and blame @Faraway Jon for this - LST -13 Fighter Control Tender - there's just that little problem of some hideous Radar arrays!

- Possibly begin HMS Valiant as a long term build

 

So it leaves me to thank You All for Your Excellent Company and support throughout the year.

I wish you all a Very Happy Christmas (Happy Holidays for the folks across the Pond) and a prosperous healthy New Year.

 

I shall raise a glass to Lost Friends - @longshanks is sorely missed and sadly 2023 will always be tarnished.

Upwards and Onwards

Happy Christmas

Rob

[Faraway]

51 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

LST -13 Fighter Control Tender

WHAT ? It wasn’t me, honest.

Building an LST is one thing, but you can only blame yourself for wanting to cover it in complicated aerials.

I’m sure it’ll be brilliant, as always.

 

Thanks for your inspiration and guidance over the past year.
See you at Thornbury ‘24 ?

 

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Jon

[Faraway]

56 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

cannot see any ariels or stays

You’re right, considering the forward stay(?) is visible against the background, I would expect the aft ones to visible also.

Jon

[JohnWS]

2 hours ago, robgizlu said:

...So it leaves me to thank You All for Your Excellent Company and support throughout the year.

I wish you all a Very Happy Christmas (Happy Holidays for the folks across the Pond) and a prosperous healthy New Year.

 

I shall raise a glass to Lost Friends - @longshanks is sorely missed and sadly 2023 will always be tarnished. ...

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Rob, to you and your family.   And, quoting Jon, "Thanks for your inspiration and guidance over the past year."

 

John

[Courageous]

12 hours ago, robgizlu said:

So it leaves me to thank You All for Your Excellent Company and support throughout the year.

Thanks...we are...we do.

12 hours ago, robgizlu said:

I shall raise a glass to Lost Friends - @longshanks is sorely missed and sadly 2023 will always be tarnished.

Here, here...to friends.

 

Stuart

[beefy66]

Great work on the mast unusual that there is no stays to the aft I thought it might have some form of attachment to the funnel maybe

 

Stay Safe and Best Wishes.

 

Keith

[JohnWS]

On 22/12/2023 at 06:45, robgizlu said:

LST -13 Fighter Control Tender - there's just that little problem of some hideous Radar arrays!

Now thatis going to be a 'fun' build.   For reference https://www.combinedops.com/FDTs.htm

 

 

John

[robgizlu]

So with the RFI up, it's time to close this thread...

 

 

Final details were added - it's an extremely detailed kit.  The only non-BCM additions besides the 271 housing and lantern were the Flotanets that seemed to have been ubiquitous on early war vessels.

I determined to build a merchant marine raft that corvettes often carried - Alisma has one if you look carefully.  Mine sits on the rear port Carley float platform and it turned out better than I hoped, witht the lifelines adding to it's being.

 

 

 

 

The figures were added most coming from the "Winter" RN BCM set, with duffel coats etc.

These are the paints I used and this pic is here as an aide memoire as much as anything (.........I'm 62 you know.......).  I always thin Vallejo with De-ionised water - dip a cocktail into Tamiya Flat and then stir the mix with that stick, the  Tamiya flat giviing a (Surprise ) Flat matte appearance..,

 

 

So here's the close down Summary:

 

Black Cat Models HMCS Agassiz 1/350 Short Foc'sle Flower Class Corvette:

What a lovely detailed model - an absolute joy to assemble.  It was obviously modified to represent HMS Abelia as per the Blog above.  I have 2 reflections - the first that there are no plate lines on the hull that curiously the Mirage Hobby offering does rather well.  Though there is a school of thought that says at this scale they are over-represented on the Mirage kit.  The second is that the 271 BCM lantern housing seems small to scale.  Now this is where things get complicated as Lambert gives several drawings with attached scales in his Flower class Shipcraft book and they don't exactly agree in size.  Ben has chosen one, Simon from MM, the other and so both are dimensionally accurate according to the different drawings but the BCM just seems under-scale.  it's possible that real sizes differed????? 

The overall joy is in the level of detail in all of the parts you receive - not the least of which are the spectacular winches and minesweeping gear.  The supplied etch sheet is very well done with slightly finer railings than we are used to.  I also LOVE the fact that BCM supply spares both in etch terms and amidst the miriad of smaller 3D pieces (they jump you know!).  Masts from Master are likewise supplied and together with the decals - this is a complete kit, rigging being the only thing you need to add.  I believe Ben is considering adding deck masks - we are getting spolit.  It really is the most detailed OOB kit that I've built.

Figures were also by BCM and marvellous they are too

Highly recommended

 

Base

Those who've followed my previous builds should know my methods well by now - Chris Flodberg is a God and Liquitex gloss Medium is your special friend.  The embossed plastic card that I used here (Thank you Alan Blythe) tunred out really well and gives a very acceptable sculpted sea state.  I'll be using it again.  The "foam" is AF water foam and i find myself using cotton wool less and less.

 

Paints and Weathering 

Oh - you know by now - My Duff does exceedingly good colours  It was a minor surprise just how light Western Approaches Blue is/was.  It appears darker in the wartime photos due to the Orthographic film so commonly used.

Weathering was with my favourite oils and a single filter wash with Mig Acrylic grey.  I used liquid mask to "lift" hull paint which was only a partial success and I probably won't use this method again.

Name plate was by Name It but you already knew that.

 

Final addendum :  I submitted the model pics to the FB Flower Class Association site which is a great reference and I'm indebted to Robert Scott for posting a picture of Abelia in an Iceland harbour.  This is only the second picture I've been able to find and rather marvellous it is.  

 

 

I got more or less everything right in my kit conversion but if anything she is dirtier in reality than I've portrayed

 

 

And here's a couple of the Sisters...

 

 

 

Thanks for support, likes and being excellent company.

Rob

[JohnWS]

Thanks for providing the model detail summary Rob.   As aways, your summaries provide new (for me) information regarding building tips and techniques.

 

56 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

... The figures were added most coming from the "Winter" RN BCM set, with duffel coats etc. ...

Speaking of blue duffel coats in winter, reminded me of a photo of my Dad standing dockside next to an RCN corvette. 

 

John

[Faraway]

Lovely.

Nuff said.

Jon