Elastic Rigging for 1:700 Napoleonic

[nheather]

I’ve already tried the dedicated wargaming forums and discord and had no responses at all so I thought there could be no harm in trying here.

 

I have some Napoleonic wargaming ships by Warlord Games.  They are 1:700 scale and they are intended to be handled on the gaming table so detail is limited and/or exaggerated to keep the models as robust as possible.

 

The kits come with some thread for basic rigging, the rat lines are printed on acetate sheets, the sails and flags are paper.

 

I probably won’t bother with the rat lines but I would like to add some basic rigging - especially as some sails hang from it.  The models some with a spool of fine thread for the purpose, no size information, I’ve tried measuring it with my callipers and I reckon in the range 0.08 to  0.1 mm.

 

I’d like to use elastic rigging because the normal thread sags, but I don’t know much about it.  I’m attracted to the AK rigging primarily because you get a decent amount for a reasonable price.  The problem with it is understanding the sizes - they give suggestions of what type and scale of models it would be good for but I suspect that is scale and my need is over scale.  They do provide a size but it is like 40D +- 0.03 mm. I don’t know what that means, the only thing I could imagine is ‘denier’ but when I look that up it is not a straight forward measure as it factors in the material being measured.

 

I have emailed AK but got nothing back from them.

 

Any advice, suggestions, in particular is the AK stuff any good, are there better/cheaper options, and what do the sizes mean?

 

 

[Paul Thompson]

Looking at the examples on their website, the photos of 1/700 scale thread being used on ships masts (albeit 20th century) looks very overscale, but probably okay for what you need.  Have a look at https://ak-interactive.com/product/elastic-rigging-bobbin-mega-thin/ .   4th photo on the right should give you a good idea.  As to if it's any good or not I can't say because I don't have any, but I've used other brands and they all seem variations on a theme, AKA much of a muchness, so if it's cheap I'd just try it out....................

 

 

Paul.

[nheather]

6 hours ago, Paul Thompson said:

Looking at the examples on their website, the photos of 1/700 scale thread being used on ships masts (albeit 20th century) looks very overscale, but probably okay for what you need.  Have a look at https://ak-interactive.com/product/elastic-rigging-bobbin-mega-thin/ .   4th photo on the right should give you a good idea.  As to if it's any good or not I can't say because I don't have any, but I've used other brands and they all seem variations on a theme, AKA much of a muchness, so if it's cheap I'd just try it out....................

 

 

Paul.

 

Yes I expect it to be overscale, war-gaming models are over-scale, reduced in detail or both - has to be to withstand hand-fisted gamers, with a couple of beers under their belts moving them around the table.

 

I don't mind buying one to find out it's just a case of which one.  They some in four sizes

 

Mega Thin - thickness 20D

Hyper Thin - thickness 40D

Super Thin - thickness 70D

Thin - thickness 110D

 

But no idea how to equate those sizes into normal millimetres or micrometres

 

I've asked AK - no response

I've looked at their website - they show pictures but they don't indicate which size of product is shown, nor what scale of model it is on.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

 

[Fukuryu]

@nheather, AK DOES give the approximate diameter of the threads, is the "+/-" number in parentheses to the right of the Denier rating:

 

Mega Thin - thickness 20D (0,02 mm)

Hyper Thin - thickness 40D (0,03 mm)

Super Thin - thickness 70D (0, 045 mm)

Thin - thickness 110D (0,055 mm)

 

In this context the "+/-" means "more or less", or "approximate",  not the diameter variance.

Edited August 21 by Fukuryu
Spelling.

[nheather]

3 hours ago, Fukuryu said:

@nheather, AK DOES give the approximate diameter of the threads, is the "+/-" number in parentheses to the right of the Denier rating:

 

Mega Thin - thickness 20D (0,02 mm)

Hyper Thin - thickness 40D (0,03 mm)

Super Thin - thickness 70D (0, 045 mm)

Thin - thickness 110D (0,055 mm)

 

In this context the "+/-" means "more or less", or "approximate",  not the diameter variance.

 

 

I had assumed that the +- number is a tolerance - though it is weird that they give the nominal dimension in one unit (denier) and tolerance is a different unit (mm).

 

I've reason to believe that 110D is 0.121 mm (According to the Infini Model products)

 

https://www.scalemodelshop.co.uk/1-350-1-200-145ft-white-ship-rigging-medium-infini-model-ir-1102w-p15138/

 

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

 

 

[Fukuryu]

110D means that nine thousand meters of the fibre weights 110 grams so different fibres of the same weight can have different diameters depending on density, etc. Either that or everything is just hype from vendors. I really don't know.

[Courageous]

I wouldn't be too worried about the lines being overscale, you want to be able to see the lines after all and the elastic will be miles better than any thread. I use Uschi 'standard' (0.03mm) on my 1/700 ships and you have to be pretty close to be able to see it.

 

Stuart

[nheather]

7 hours ago, Courageous said:

I wouldn't be too worried about the lines being overscale, you want to be able to see the lines after all and the elastic will be miles better than any thread. I use Uschi 'standard' (0.03mm) on my 1/700 ships and you have to be pretty close to be able to see it.

 

Stuart

 

I absolutely want them to be overstate, they wouldn't last 5 minutes otherwise. Also the triangular sails at the front hang off the rigging so it needs a bit of substance to it.

 

I'm just trying to work out what which one I need to buy.  Specifying it in Denier is crazy because as @Fukuryu correctly states, denier doesn't refer to a diameter but a weight - may make sense in the fashion industry but for model rigging makes no sense at all.

[Niall]

Not about rigging thread but I'm working on designs for PE ratlines, top sails, driver and jib for the Warlord Games. Here is a screenshot of the design for the 74 -

 

Black areas are not etched, yellow are front 1/4 etched and green are front and back 1/4 etched.

[nheather]

1 hour ago, Niall said:

Not about rigging thread but I'm working on designs for PE ratlines, top sails, driver and jib for the Warlord Games. Here is a screenshot of the design for the 74 -

 

Black areas are not etched, yellow are front 1/4 etched and green are front and back 1/4 etched.

Looks interesting - it's Black Seas BTW, or is that to avoid copyright.

[ArnoldAmbrose]

2 hours ago, nheather said:

the triangular sales at the front hang off the rigging

I think you're referring to the jib sails. Regards, Jeff.

[nheather]

2 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

I think you're referring to the jib sails. Regards, Jeff.

Yes that is correct.  In these wargame models they will simply attach to the thread and I have even seen some suggestions to use guitar string as this rigging, even more over scale but it gives the jib a fighting chance of staying in place.

[Niall]

The error in the name was aging memory - also I don't like the rules as they were written by someone who does not understand how sailing ships work!

 

Many years ago I saw some stunning 1/600th scale models made by Derrick Hunnisett. He used streched copper wire(taken from electric cables) for the rigging. This would be stiffer than thread or elastic, if wire from an old USB cable was used it would be thinner than guitar string.