How do Leopard 2R mine-clearing tanks work?

[Supertom]

So how do they work? I hear a bunch of the Leopard 2Rs that Ukraine had been using to clear mines had been destroyed. I'm assuming it this huge shovel digs in the ground and pushes them out of the ground, and at times the mines would detonate - when that happens does that render the tank and/or shovel inoperable? Or is it that the mine was more powerful than thought? 

[ivan-o]

They are fitted with a full width mine plough which pushes the mines to the side. These are fitted to our own Trojan AVREs and the M1 breacher tank.

HTH 

Ivan

[Kingsman]

Like all mine ploughs, the Leo 2R lifts mines with its plough tines and moves them to the sides with its blades.  Where EOD have to come along, collect them, take them away and frag them.  They are a hazard to following vehicles.  Which is why on D Day and across NW Europe we did not use any of the mine ploughs that had been developed (Jefferis, Bullshorn) but opted instead for the proven flail.  Which of course detonates the mines.  And yet mine ploughs now predominate.........  You can't plough with vehicles en echelon as they just tip the UXO back into the cleared lane next door.

 

It is plausible that a mine being lifted might get turned over, caught up and detonated by the plough.  Which should not destroy the vehicle.  One hopes that the Ukrainians were not daft enough to try en echelon ploughing and took out their own following vehicles.  It is equally plausible that some mines were buried deeply enough that the plough missed them.  But it is far more likely that the Russians - who are unfortunately not as stupid as we like to think they are - had the minefields covered with anti-tank weapons and pre-surveyed artillery.  The slow-moving ploughs would have been sitting targets.

 

 

[ivan-o]

All mine fields should be covered by fire👍However I think it’s not wise to believe all of the photos we see! Some are plainly photo shopped as the one of the ambushed column with the Leo being being a model on closer inspection. If a Russian tells you it’s daylight it’s always best to check for yourself😉

[sardaukar]

19 hours ago, Kingsman said:

Like all mine ploughs, the Leo 2R lifts mines with its plough tines and moves them to the sides with its blades.  Where EOD have to come along, collect them, take them away and frag them.  They are a hazard to following vehicles.  Which is why on D Day and across NW Europe we did not use any of the mine ploughs that had been developed (Jefferis, Bullshorn) but opted instead for the proven flail.  Which of course detonates the mines.  And yet mine ploughs now predominate.........  You can't plough with vehicles en echelon as they just tip the UXO back into the cleared lane next door.

 

It is plausible that a mine being lifted might get turned over, caught up and detonated by the plough.  Which should not destroy the vehicle.  One hopes that the Ukrainians were not daft enough to try en echelon ploughing and took out their own following vehicles.  It is equally plausible that some mines were buried deeply enough that the plough missed them.  But it is far more likely that the Russians - who are unfortunately not as stupid as we like to think they are - had the minefields covered with anti-tank weapons and pre-surveyed artillery.  The slow-moving ploughs would have been sitting targets.

 

 

 

interesting, does this mean a plow wouldnt normally be used to lead an assault through a minefield with other armoured vehicles behind it in single file? that does sound very high risk.

[ivan-o]

14 minutes ago, sardaukar said:

 

interesting, does this mean a plow wouldnt normally be used to lead an assault through a minefield with other armoured vehicles behind it in single file? that does sound very high risk.

We would usually fire a Python or in my day a giant viper  (basically a explosive rope)first and then the plough would go over the area cleared by the explosion to try and clear any unexploded mines. This should be done obviously with covering fire from other units in the BG.

[GMK]

Depending on the assets available, breaching an anti-armour obstacle could use the following, in sequence:

- explosives (mine clearing line charges)

- ploughs (dig mines up)

- rollers (roll over mines, blowing them up)

- vehicle-launched bridge/fascines (cross ditches/wet/dry gaps)

With mines in particular, most armies use more than one tool, both for redundancy & to “prove” the route through the breach. 

[Kingsman]

I don't know that the Ukrainians have an equivalent of Giant Viper.  The US do.  Israel uses Carpet - thermobaric rockets intended to detonate mines by blast overpressure.  IIRC France has adopted that too. Which begs the question whether the Russian TOS-1 could be used for minefield breaching. Ukraine has captured at least 1 of these.

 

But yes, breaching ploughs will be creating a single lane which is clearly vulnerable and any physical breaching vehicle is itself vulnerable.  And always has been.  3 flails on echelon WW2-style gives a wider lane but are still vulnerable.  This is why minefields - even dummy ones- are so effective at choking advances.

[Niall]

The Russian have an equivalent to Giant Viper - the UR77 - a 2s1 self propelled gun hull with a fixed housing for 2 line charges firing forwards. Link to Wikipedia -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UR-77_Meteorit

 

Mine ploughs will detonate anti-personel mines.

 

In desert storm the British army also used a magnetic mine exploder on Cheirtain AVRE and AVLB's. This was a metal frame on the vehicle's glassis plate which was a powerful electro-magnet which would detonate anti-tank mines several feet in front of the vehicle.

[PeteH1969]

3 minutes ago, Niall said:

The Russian have an equivalent to Giant Viper - the UR77 - a 2s1 self propelled gun hull with a fixed housing for 2 line charges firing forwards. Link to Wikipedia -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UR-77_Meteorit

 

Mine ploughs will detonate anti-personel mines.

 

In desert storm the British army also used a magnetic mine exploder on Cheirtain AVRE and AVLB's. This was a metal frame on the vehicle's glassis plate which was a powerful electro-magnet which would detonate anti-tank mines several feet in front of the vehicle.

 

[GMK]

On 6/15/2023 at 9:36 PM, Kingsman said:

I don't know that the Ukrainians have an equivalent of Giant Viper. 

Yes, the Ukrainians have US mine clearing line charges (MICLIC), seen here:

 

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1669616546673467398?s=46&t=NgApUr0JxJVmdHJ5mss_Sw