NVA Luftstreitkräfte Aircraft After Re-Unification

[2996 Victor]

Hi all,

 

This is a subject about which I know nothing! In fact, until today it hadn't even occurred to me that former GDR aircraft had been a part of the reunited Germany's Luftwaffe. Stupid of me, I know, but there it is.

 

So. my question is, is there any info on former-GDR aircraft, and specifically MiG-21s, continuing in service after the reunification? I know Eduard include markings in one of their kits - that's what has sparked this enquiry - but I'd be interested to know more. Google searches seem to bring up what look like pictures of models!

 

Thanks in advance for any pointers,

Mark

[GiampieroSilvestri]

The only NVA aircraft that saw service in the Luftwaffe were the Mig-29.In 2004 they were sold for one Euro to Poland.The Mig-21 were instantly retired in 1990.One Mig-23 was tested by the WTD 61 at Manching near Munich,twelve aircraft were given as aggressor to the US,one to the UK and the rest was demolished.Three Sukhoi Su-22 were given to the US,France and UK for evaluation and the others also demolished.The Mil-24 were sold to Hungary for one DM in 1994.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

Edited June 3, 2023 by GiampieroSilvestri

[2996 Victor]

18 minutes ago, GiampieroSilvestri said:

The only NVA aircraft that saw service in the Luftwaffe were the Mig-29.In 2004 they were sold for one Euro to Poland.The Mig-21 were instantly retired in 1990.One Mig-23 was tested by the WTD 61 at Manching near Munich,twelve aircraft were given as aggressor to the US,one to the UK and the rest was demolished.Three Sukhoi Su-22 were given to the US,France and UK for evaluation and the others also demolished.The Mil-24 were sold to Hungary for one DM in 1994.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

Thanks for this - dear old Eduard must have got it wrong or made a "what-if". Ah well!

 

All the best,

Mark

[GiampieroSilvestri]

The Luftwaffe took over all NVA Mig-21 but they never saw active service.

A Mig-21PFM was painted in white allover with the German flag.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by GiampieroSilvestri

[Jabba]

39 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said:

Thanks for this - dear old Eduard must have got it wrong or made a "what-if". Ah well!

 

All the best,

Mark

 

Some MiG-21 did get Luftwaffe insignia and there are photos of this in a book called "Final Touchdown" by Concord publications published in 1992. This does include MiG-21SPS (22+02) of JG 1 in the gaudy scheme of overall white with Red/Gold/Black trim and sharkmouth. The others are painted in their normal camo schemes with Luftwaffe insignia and numbers. As @GiampieroSilvestri says they were not operated by the Luftwaffe, just got some numbers. The book also shows the MiG-29s with Luftwaffe insignia, plus a Let  L-410, IL-62 and Tu-134.

[GiampieroSilvestri]

1 hour ago, Jabba said:

 

Some MiG-21 did get Luftwaffe insignia and there are photos of this in a book called "Final Touchdown" by Concord publications published in 1992. This does include MiG-21SPS (22+02) of JG 1 in the gaudy scheme of overall white with Red/Gold/Black trim and sharkmouth. The others are painted in their normal camo schemes with Luftwaffe insignia and numbers. As @GiampieroSilvestri says they were not operated by the Luftwaffe, just got some numbers. The book also shows the MiG-29s with Luftwaffe insignia, plus a Let  L-410, IL-62 and Tu-134.

The Mil-8 were operated for a short time as SAR helicopters.The personal machine of Erich Honecker was used to fly around politicians.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

Edited June 3, 2023 by GiampieroSilvestri

[Selwyn]

2 hours ago, GiampieroSilvestri said:

The only NVA aircraft that saw service in the Luftwaffe were the Mig-29.In 2004 they were sold for one Euro to Poland.The Mig-21 were instantly retired in 1990.One Mig-23 was tested by the WTD 61 at Manching near Munich,twelve aircraft were given as aggressor to the US,one to the UK and the rest was demolished.Three Sukhoi Su-22 were given to the US,France and UK for evaluation and the others also demolished.The Mil-24 were sold to Hungary for one DM in 1994.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

Had to laugh!

The word you were looking for is "scrapped". You only demolish buildings!

 

Selwyn

 

(Running for cover!)

 

 

[2996 Victor]

2 hours ago, Jabba said:

 

Some MiG-21 did get Luftwaffe insignia and there are photos of this in a book called "Final Touchdown" by Concord publications published in 1992. This does include MiG-21SPS (22+02) of JG 1 in the gaudy scheme of overall white with Red/Gold/Black trim and sharkmouth. The others are painted in their normal camo schemes with Luftwaffe insignia and numbers. As @GiampieroSilvestri says they were not operated by the Luftwaffe, just got some numbers. The book also shows the MiG-29s with Luftwaffe insignia, plus a Let  L-410, IL-62 and Tu-134.

Ah, that's interesting! Seems strange to have allocated and applied markings and codes if there was no plan to use the aircraft operationally, but presumably that's where Eduard got their info.

I might look for the book you've kindly mentioned, as it's an intriguing scenario.

Many thanks and best regards,

Mark 

[modelldoc]

BTW, there was not "the" personal machine of Erich Honecker. He had used different Tu-134A and Il-62 from the TG-44 (transport Squadron  44) The Il-62 has only civil markings, INTERFLUG and the Tu-134A has both, military, with a civil touch and civil.

Don't forget the An-26 Curl.Twelve An-26 are in service as apart of the LTG 65. (Lufttransortgeschwader - air transport squadron). The last plane was phased out in April 1993.

There was another civil liner too. The Tupolev Tu-154 Careless. Two planes are used until 1999. The Open Skies Mission plane 11+02 crashed  on September the 13 1997 in front of the coast of Namibia with an USAF C-141B. 33 human died. The other plane 11+01 was sold to Iran in February 2000. There she got the registration EP-MPL.

Never forgot the three Airbus A 310 - 300 from the airline INTERFLUG.  The 10+21 "Konrad Adenauer" and the 10+22 "Theodor Heus" are VIP planes and the 10+23 "Kurt Schumacher" was a transport plane for 222 passengers.

10+22 was sold in November 2011 to Mahan Air, Iran and 10+21 was sold in June 2014 to ESA as ZERO-G.

The last was 20+23 was in service until 2021.

 

modelldoc

[Rob de Bie]

I remember that WTD61 at Ingolstadt-Manching had a couple of ex-LSK MiG-21s. There was an open house for the last F-104 flight (22 May 1991), and they were on display. Here's a show report on the Scramble site, by myself to my surprise!

 

https://www.scramble.nl/database/show-reports/germany/manching-1991

 

Rob

[tempestfan]

16 hours ago, GiampieroSilvestri said:

The Luftwaffe took over all NVA Mig-21 but they never saw active service.

A Mig-21PFM was painted in white allover with the German flag.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

 

 

 

 

„Der weiße Hai“ was not overall white I think, but retained light blue undersides.

[GiampieroSilvestri]

15 hours ago, modelldoc said:

BTW, there was not "the" personal machine of Erich Honecker. He had used different Tu-134A and Il-62 from the TG-44 (transport Squadron  44) The Il-62 has only civil markings, INTERFLUG and the Tu-134A has both, military, with a civil touch and civil.

Don't forget the An-26 Curl.Twelve An-26 are in service as apart of the LTG 65. (Lufttransortgeschwader - air transport squadron). The last plane was phased out in April 1993.

There was another civil liner too. The Tupolev Tu-154 Careless. Two planes are used until 1999. The Open Skies Mission plane 11+02 crashed  on September the 13 1997 in front of the coast of Namibia with an USAF C-141B. 33 human died. The other plane 11+01 was sold to Iran in February 2000. There she got the registration EP-MPL.

Never forgot the three Airbus A 310 - 300 from the airline INTERFLUG.  The 10+21 "Konrad Adenauer" and the 10+22 "Theodor Heus" are VIP planes and the 10+23 "Kurt Schumacher" was a transport plane for 222 passengers.

10+22 was sold in November 2011 to Mahan Air, Iran and 10+21 was sold in June 2014 to ESA as ZERO-G.

The last was 20+23 was in service until 2021.

 

modelldoc

I meant the personal Mil-8 of Honecker.It was used by the Flugbereitschaft to fly politicians.🙂

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

[2996 Victor]

2 hours ago, Rob de Bie said:

I remember that WTD61 at Ingolstadt-Manching had a couple of ex-LSK MiG-21s. There was an open house for the last F-104 flight (22 May 1991), and they were on display. Here's a show report on the Scramble site, by myself to my surprise!

 

https://www.scramble.nl/database/show-reports/germany/manching-1991

 

Rob

Thanks, Rob, that's very interesting and thank you for sharing!

 

All the best,

Mark

[Jabba]

3 hours ago, tempestfan said:

„Der weiße Hai“ was not overall white I think, but retained light blue undersides.

Looking at the pictures in the book that I mention and yes it does have the blue undersides but, the sharkmouth alters the profile at the nose area.

[modelldoc]

2 hours ago, GiampieroSilvestri said:

I meant the personal Mil-8 of Honecker.It was used by the Flugbereitschaft to fly politicians.🙂

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

There was not "the" personal helicopter. The TG-44 had eleven Mi-8S up from 1969 in service. In the first time they had a nice painting:

 

 

Later comes 13 Mi-8PS in service, all are camouflaged:

 

 

All helicopters come to the transport units after a short time in service with the TG-44.

 

The full website is here (in German):

 

https://home.snafu.de/veith/tfg-44.htm

 

modelldoc

[MigModeller]

22 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

Thanks for this - dear old Eduard must have got it wrong or made a "what-if". Ah well!

 

Mark

Not true Eduard sought photographic evidence,

Join the Mig-21 Facebook forum

Have scratched cornea so cannot write more

[Hook]

21 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

Seems strange to have allocated and applied markings and codes if there was no plan to use the aircraft operationally

It was a legal requirement, AFAIK. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[GiampieroSilvestri]

3 hours ago, modelldoc said:

There was not "the" personal helicopter. The TG-44 had eleven Mi-8S up from 1969 in service. In the first time they had a nice painting:

 

 

Later comes 13 Mi-8PS in service, all are camouflaged:

 

 

All helicopters come to the transport units after a short time in service with the TG-44.

 

The full website is here (in German):

 

https://home.snafu.de/veith/tfg-44.htm

 

modelldoc

Here is a picture of the Mil-8S used by the Luftwaffe until 1997 for vip transport because of its luxorious interior.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

 

 

 

[modelldoc]

You right, and this is the website to see the full interior:

 

https://www.flugzeug-lexikon.de/Luftwaffenmuseum/Hubschrauber/Mil_Mi-8VIP/mil_mi-8vip.html

 

(in German)

 

modelldoc

Edited June 4, 2023 by modelldoc

[FRO]

this list shows (maybe) all east german aircraft with their LSK (Luftstreitkräfte) numbers, serials, transfer to west german Luftwaffe (f.e. 20+61) and their last places at a museum, sale or scrapping.

 

https://www.flugzeugforum.de/threads/lsk-kennungen.40338/

 

 

[2996 Victor]

3 hours ago, FRO said:

this list shows (maybe) all east german aircraft with their LSK (Luftstreitkräfte) numbers, serials, transfer to west german Luftwaffe (f.e. 20+61) and their last places at a museum, sale or scrapping.

 

https://www.flugzeugforum.de/threads/lsk-kennungen.40338/

That's absolutely brilliant, thank you! Its fascinating to see where the LSK aircraft ended their days, and how many have survived in museums.

 

Thanks again and kind regards,

Mark

[Bjorn]

As mentioned, one MiG-23 and one MiG-23BN flew with Luftwaffe markings as well as three Su-22 and a number of MiG-21s, both MF, Bis, PFM/SPS and the aldready mentioned Weisse Hai.  The Eduard kit is not a What-if, but one of the number of aircraft that were used for testing purposes. 

Some pictures:

[BillF67]

On 03/06/2023 at 21:25, Selwyn said:

Had to laugh!

The word you were looking for is "scrapped". You only demolish buildings!

 

Selwyn

 

(Running for cover!)

And, of course, English middle order batting!

 

 

[Bjorn]

And here are a few more ex-DDR aircraft in Luftwaffe colours:

 

[Hook]

On 7/4/2023 at 10:17 AM, Bjorn said:

Some pictures:

Interesting shot of 23+27 lacking the white surround of the numerals.

 

Incidentally, a number of former LSK aircraft ended up in an Austrian museum near Bad Ischl in the open air - they have weathered to the extent that the former LSK numbers are showing through the reunified Bundesluftwaffe ones! 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Hook