Vallejo primer issues - respirator advice - spray booth advice

[Bill1974]

Hi,

 

I have been having real issues using vallejo primer.

 

It has been clogging my airbrush and getting bad results and find even though it is definitely thin enough I need to pump the airbrush. It is soooooo frustrating!

 

I see bits flinging out of the airbrush (AB) and can't get a nice slow low pressure low coat of paint  / fine slow mist and build up layers like I want too and constantly find the need to pump and have a sudden burst of paint. 

 

I clean my airbrush with a mix of 99% rubbing alchohol, glycerin and method glass cleaner and it's brilliant.

 

I'm losing the will to paint / live using this primer.

 

I will not ever use nasty fume filled solvent based primers as they are killer.  It has to be acrylic and safe.

 

What do I need to do to find a solution??

 

- Adding klear?

- Use distilled water and not tap water to dilute? (I live in oxfordshire and the water is hard)

- mix my own primer using what...?

- mix something else with vallejo primer?

 

I have searched using the ;britmodeller tag and see lots of talk, but most of it leaning towards solvent based which as I say is an absolute no no.

 

I don't tend to have such an issue when using a new bottle of vallejo primer only when it has been ran down and I'm using the last quarter of he bottle??? Is this the answer? Is there a way of filtering the primer to get rid of the issue????

 

Please help!

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Bill1974

[janneman36]

I use Badger Stynylrez primer, it is very durable!

I noticed once degreasing your kit with alcohol that it causes the paint to lift and since then I use white spirit and that solved my problem with lifting primer paint.

 

Cheers, Jan

[Casey]

+1 for badger stynylrez here. Straight out of the bottle, never thin that stuff, just crank up the PSI a bit, it does not clog an airbrush.

 

Word of warning: acrylic paint and primer when dry is NOT cured which means it might lift up with tape. If you keep running into that issue, give it 72h or even a week - patience is important there.

[Bill1974]

27 minutes ago, janneman36 said:

I use Badger Stynylrez primer, it is very durable!

I noticed once degreasing your kit with alcohol that it causes the paint to lift and since then I use white spirit and that solved my problem with lifting primer paint.

 

Cheers, Jan

 

 

 

It seems to come with some very nasty looking health warnings? And is quiet expensive?

 

 

Product Safety 

Warning 

Causes serious eye irritation.

Causes skin irritation.

Harmful if inhaled.

Harmful if swallowed.

Harmful in contact with skin.

May cause respiratory irritation.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Bill1974

[janneman36]

9 minutes ago, Bill1974 said:

 

It seems to come with some very nasty looking health warnings? And is quiet expensive?

 

 

Product Safety 

Warning 

Causes serious eye irritation.

Causes skin irritation.

Harmful if inhaled.

Harmful if swallowed.

Harmful in contact with skin.

May cause respiratory irritation.

This warning is similar for all paints!
I bought my stynylrez at https://barwellbodyworks-shop.com/

Maybe expensive but boy it is selfleveling so it leaves all your detail intact 👍

I mostly can tape it off when dry with Tamiya tapes , I honestly seldom wait for a week😉

 

cheers, Jan

[Bill1974]

14 minutes ago, janneman36 said:

I bought my stynylrez at https://barwellbodyworks-shop.com/

Maybe expensive but boy it is selfleveling so it leaves all your detail intact 👍

 

cheers, Jan

 

Bullet well and truly bitten as I've just ordered a large bottle of white as they didn't have black or grey in stock.  It's a primer I don't care what colour it is.

 

Thanks for the recommendation!

[Casey]

It has similar warnings to all paints. Stynlyrez does have a bite in it though.

 

Their big bottles will last you for a while. You can also opt for smaller bottles of red, yellow and olive primers for those special occasions. Primer color is important, at least for me.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Casey

[Pigpen]

Vallejo primer is a waste of time, peels off and cannot be sanded. I've tried "hot" primers from rattle cas but really did not get on with them.

 

Styreleze branded as Ultimate products is brilliant. I keep a cheapo Chinese airbrush with a 0.5 needle just for it and spray at 30psi or higher in the winter straight from the bottle. Self leveling, sandable and maskable after 24 hours.

 

I never consider using anything else now.

 

I also use a respirator but we should be doing that for all spraying.

 

[CFster]

1 hour ago, Bill1974 said:

 

Bullet well and truly bitten as I've just ordered a large bottle of white as they didn't have black or grey in stock.  It's a primer I don't care what colour it is.

 

Thanks for the recommendation!

White is the most problematic of the Stynylrez primers unfortunately. Lots of pigment so it likes to clog. Feel free to use some flow improver. Preferably a larger needle and like 30psi. 

[CFster]

Also, yeah…Vallejo primer isn’t even a primer. It’s a paint, that takes forever to cure just like their colors, doesn’t adhere and rolls up if you try to sand it. They’ve got like two dozen colors of primer, many of which appear as colors in their kits. For example, their “US Navy & USMC colors from 70's to present” has like eight colors and one of them is 70.615 USN Light Ghost Grey. That’s also a primer in their catalog. So, apparently they think it has a finish like a color coat. Probably because that’s all it is. 

[Yes_Man]

Another vote for Stynylrez here. I've tinted it before with a drop of Vallejo Model Air with no problems so if you find your white is a bit too stark and want to make it grey or black that's worth a try. Only problem is that over longer spraying sessions I've noticed it'll set in the cup and make a gunky mess. It's not difficult to clean up, especially if you use a mild cleaner (I use VMS Acrylic Cleaners) but it's more of a faff that you don't get with something like Mr Surfacer 1500 (which used to be my go-to until I had to stop spraying lacquers for health reasons, I do miss it though as it was bulletproof).

[Pigpen]

29 minutes ago, CFster said:

Also, yeah…Vallejo primer isn’t even a primer. It’s a paint, that takes forever to cure just like their colors, doesn’t adhere and rolls up if you try to sand it. They’ve got like two dozen colors of primer, many of which appear as colors in their kits. For example, their “US Navy & USMC colors from 70's to present” has like eight colors and one of them is 70.615 USN Light Ghost Grey. That’s also a primer in their catalog. So, apparently they think it has a finish like a color coat. Probably because that’s all it is. 

I have genuinely wondered if by primer Vallejo mean a paint the colour of primer. To be used as a base coat underneath a topcoat so you can chip and weather down to it rather than as a priming coat! Look at their sets of armour colours and it's almost as if they expect it to be used that way. I used their Africa Corps primer over styreleze primer but underneath the top coats with chipping and got a great result 😃

[Bill1974]

Does anyone feel the need to wear a respirator when air brushing, I havent so far without an issue, I'm wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

 

I only ever use vallejo acrylics and now the Stynylrezand try to keep a minimum spray on low pressure.

 

Thoughts please?

Edited May 4, 2023 by Bill1974

[CFster]

7 minutes ago, Bill1974 said:

Does anyone feel the need to wear a respirator when air brushing, I havent so far without an issue, I'm wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

 

I only ever use vallejo acrylics and now the Stynylrezand try to keep a minimum spray on low pressure.

 

Thoughts please?

Even water based acrylics can pose a health hazard because you’re breathing particulates into your lungs. That’s not the type of thing that’s going to show results right away…more like 15 years down the road when you develop lung disease after consistent use. 
 

Lacquers and enamels can cause more…immediate, and serious, problems. 
 

I’d wear a P100 when airbrushing acrylics. Many veterans of the hobby don’t bother though, even with lacquers, and because THEY survived they think it’s stupid for anyone else to take precautions. 

[Bill1974]

17 minutes ago, CFster said:

I’d wear a P100 when airbrushing acrylics. Many veterans of the hobby don’t bother though, even with lacquers, and because THEY survived they think it’s stupid for anyone else to take precautions. 

 

Do you use any specific brand or any make to recommend?

 

I've searched for p100 and it comes up with ALOT of products none of which stand out.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Bill1974

[CFster]

10 minutes ago, Bill1974 said:

 

Do you use any specific brand or any make to recommend?

I use a 3M 6503 half face respirator with 60923 filter cartridges, which are a three way stacked cartridge. A P100 particulate filter, a carbon filter that removes VOCs and somehow it also removes oil vapors as well (from enamels). But I spray lacquers. 

If I was only spraying Vallejo I’d probably go with this: 

 

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Facepiece-Respirator-6291-Particulate/dp/B000FTEDMM/ref=sr_1_12?hvadid=582220427922&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9003181&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=6539476018746872470&hvtargid=kwd-474260757536&hydadcr=954_9642223&keywords=3m+half+mask+large&qid=1683173200&s=industrial&sr=1-12

 

But to be honest, I have a fairly powerful spraybooth, and if I’m not spraying Vallejo for an hour then I just rely on that. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by CFster

[treker_ed]

Another vote for Ultimate/Stynylrez here. That's really the only primer I use anymore. I've used several over the years - Halfords plastic primer, Tamiya Fine primer, I've even used Vallejo primers. But the most consistent has been the Ultimate. 

 

I use their grey & white for most general priming, and matt black & gloss black for any metallic finishes. Gloss black for any shiny metal finishes I want to do though, followed by a wet coat of Tamiya X1 gloss black to get a nice super glossy, super shiny topcoat before the metallic goes on. 

 

I did have a period a couple of years ago when the primer was lifting on every kit. Not sure what was causing that though, which caused a massive drop in confidence and stopped any kit building for a long time.... However, restarted earlier this year, and using the same stuff, and have had no problems at all with paint lifting, or primer lifting after the masking has been removed, so not really sure what was happening. 

 

For clean up - I always use their own airbrush cleaners, - it's a propriety blend, and seems to shift anything acrylic that goes into the airbrush! Cleans up their own primers, Humbrol, Tamiya, Vallejo metal colours, Revell & K-Colors (Metallic paints - alcohol based)

[Yes_Man]

17 hours ago, Bill1974 said:

Does anyone feel the need to wear a respirator when air brushing, I havent so far without an issue, I'm wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

 

I only ever use vallejo acrylics and now the Stynylrezand try to keep a minimum spray on low pressure.

 

Thoughts please?

 

Depends. If I'm doing detail work I don't bother as I spray very small with lower PSI so there's very little coming out of the airbrush that doesn't end up on the model taking out by my extractor fan. If it's large jobs like priming, varnishing or just large coats of paint I'lll put a respirator on. Even if it's water-based you're still vaporising paint particles that you may breath in which is just not going to be good for you. I use a 3M one similar to what @CFSter posted.

[Tojo72]

Vallejo primer sprays very nicely if you use their thinner and flow improver,but as a primer,it's not very good not sandable at all and not real tough.

I thought Stynlerez looked great and leveled nicely,but it plays havoc with my airbrush kept clogging requiring deep cleaning.

Oh,speaking of deep cleaning,did you mention alcohol and Vallejo,they do not mix,it will really jam up your airbrush badly.

I bite the bullet and use Tamiya primer,works like a charm,is tough,and levels nicely.Of course I spray in my basement with a respirator,not everyone has a place to do that.

[Bill1974]

Hiya all,

 

Thank you so much for your contributions I really appreciate your input and I find it all very informative and valuable, so thanks very very much. 👍

 

I have a secondary query regarding spray booths....

 

I have had a starter look online and there are so very many and it seems a maze of choices, therefore;

 

Requirements - I will not be able to vent to outside as although I have windows I will not be able to spray right next to them due to orientation of room and furniture.  Therefore it will need to be a filter based system and energy efficiency and noise are issues.

 

- Any recommendations as to manufacturer?

- Any ideas on replacement filters or cleaning / washing them or whichever?

- Cost of the unit and replacement filters together with electricity use and noise will be a large factor, especially the energy efficiency rating.

 

All suggestions / ideas and such would be welcome and most appreciated!

[Bill1974]

Hey hey hey!

 

I'm answering my own question here and after some searching ;britmodeller I have come up with a £300 option which is;

 

https://www.modellingtools.co.uk/graphicair-a300s-d--plus-spare-filter-offer-11996-p.asp

 

Or something a little more lower priced and a little smaller at circa £130;

 

https://www.bartsharpairbrush.co.uk/product-category/portable-airbrush-spray-booth-and-accessories/portable-airbrush-spray-booth/?doing_wp_cron=1683249153.0733230113983154296875

 

Comments and suggestions welcome!

Edited May 5, 2023 by Bill1974

[CFster]

Probably Benchvent is the best quality booths over on your side of the pond. I built my own. It’s a double walled cardboard moving box (less than $5) attached to a Rubbermaid container. A $32 294cfm 6” bathroom vent fan is attached to the top of the tote. I find this has a higher cfm rating than most consumer spraybooths costing less than $600. The tote creates a vacuum chamber that sucks air through the whole filter, which is a regular 16”x20”x1” furnace filter from the home store for $10. I change it probably every month but I could go longer. On top is a cheap dimmer control knob for the fan. I like to turn it down sometimes. In my case the fan blows air through a portable A/C unit hose out the window (there’s an adapter that the window closes on). Works great. I added some white foam board to brighten it up which I can flip around and replace easily. I just wedge it in there. The whole thing used to be deeper. But it took up too much space so I cut it back, and am considering cutting it back even more. The air is drawn through the filter regardless, and it’s close enough to me that I can don’t even really need to turn toward it if I’m doing light detail airbrush work. 
 

You may ask why have a filter at all if the air is going straight out the window, and that’s a two part answer. First, it keeps particulates from building up excessively on the blower motor. Second, when it’s the dead if winter and I don’t want to exhaust my heated air out of the house I have another solution, below. 

 

In your case, if you’re just spraying water based paints like Vallejo and want to cut down on the inevitable particulate buildup on your furniture and inside your lungs, here's what I would do:

 

Get or make a spray booth with a filter. As you can’t vent outside, get a 5 gallon bucket with a lid. Cut a hole in the lid the size of the exhaust hose coming out of your spray booth. Stick the hose through the lid and seal it in place with duct tape. Fill the bucket part way with water. Don’t submerge the hose into the water - it just needs to go into the bucket. Now everything the filter misses will get blown onto the water which will catch and trap it. And particulates DO make it past the filter - the inside of my hose has colored dust in it. Drill a couple smaller holes in the lid so air has a way to escape. You can improve on this by adding a carbon filter if you think you’re going to be spraying some lacquers. You can get pads of activated charcoal - just tape it to to the end of the hose. The beauty of this design is you’re not emptying heated or air conditioned air through a window out of your house…
 

As for noise level, I mean you know it’s on, but it’s not nearly as loud as the A/C unit I have in the wall next to it. And like I said, I’ll turn it up full blast when shooting Alclad or something, then turn it down and let it run while the model is still outgassing for a bit. I can’t tell you how much electricity it uses. It’s probably negligible. It’s not like it’s running for hours at a time. 
 

Some people say exposed electric blower motors can spark and cause an explosion if you’re spraying flammable paints. I don’t believe this, and have some data supporting it. I think the vapor concentrations in any cloud of paint you’re going to generate are far too low. However, if you’re nervous about it, there are “explosion proof” motors, and there are also “squirrel cage” motors that remove the electric motor outside of the airflow - the motor drives a blower via a sealed shaft. Some of the higher end spraybooths use this design - many don’t…

 

 

 

[Bill1974]

1 hour ago, CFster said:

Probably Benchvent is the best quality booths over on your side of the pond.

 

Wow, thanks for the great ideas and clear build instructions and such.

 

You have a great and very well organised work station, I am hugely envious.

 

I have to manage with a medium sized wheeled table thing you see in hospitals and half my sofa filled with kit and paints.

 

I am unsure of what I might do at present, although I'm leaning towards the cheaper option I posted because it's collapsible and reasonably priced and will fit in my flat together with a jsp half face mask and dust filters designed for spraying and dust and such.

 

Anything will be better that what I have a present which is absolutely nothing bar a compressor with air storage and a sparmax pistol grip airbrush which I have fallen in love with when it's not jamming with bloody vallejo primer 😬 as per original question. My pistol grip works really well with everything else I've put in it.

 

It's totting up to about £150 in total to be safer than I am at present.

 

I had wondered where all the black or white dust came from not realising it was the primer and paint.... ‘Dop.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Bill1974

[CFster]

I’m sure that will be fine. And, you’ll be surprised how much room you can find in your space when this hobby takes over your free will! 
 

One thing I found with non metal booths is they tend to attract dust due to static electricity build up. I have the same problem. Air rushing past those plastic surfaces only makes it worse - that builds up a static charge. It’s one reason why the more professional booths are of metal construction which is grounded through the power cord.  
 

So I’d be getting some dust in my paint jobs. I find wiping the surfaces (and model) down with a drier sheet or Kimwipes helps with that, and sometimes I spray a mist of water on the bottom surface to catch floating dust. Also depends on your climate...

[Bill1974]

My stynylrez has arrived! Ordered white as that was all they had in stock, left a note on the order asking that I preferred grey and grey has arrived!  Marvellous!!!

 

Gonna try it out now on my viggen!

Edited May 5, 2023 by Bill1974