Jump to content

USN Light Grey


nheather

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

Not looking for precise accuracy but the paint that I just purchased online has surprised me a little.

 

This is for painting early (1942) USN Wildcats.  This is just for 1:200 wargaming miniatures so not looking for precise accuracy but even so the colour I purchased isn’t what I was expecting.

 

I mostly have Vallejo so decided to stick with that - I chose 71.298 M495 Light Grey from their USN set - I bought the individual, not the whole set.

 

In my head, I was expecting quite a pure light grey but this I would describe as more of a light grey beige.

 

The scheme is this for lower surfaces and 71.109 Faded PRU Blue for the upper surfaces.  This is the era with the stars in the circles, after the red Centre but before they added the bars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "color number" has been a point of confusion for decades, but those numbers had nothing to do with the individual color values.  M-485 was the Navy spec for all camouflage lacquers, including Light Gray.  When Blue Gray was invented, the spec was revised, adding the new (unnumbered) color to M-485a.  Camouflage dopes were listed under M-495.  Some earlier publications assumed the numbers distinguished Light Gray from Blue Gray, but both unnumbered colors appeared in both specs.

 

With the introduction of the Gull Grays in 1943, BuAer offered the following mixes:

 

Gull Gray Dark -- ten parts Light Gray to one part Black

Gull Gray Light (which became 36440) -- two parts Light Gray to one part white

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Dana Bell said:

The "color number" has been a point of confusion for decades, but those numbers had nothing to do with the individual color values.  M-485 was the Navy spec for all camouflage lacquers, including Light Gray.  When Blue Gray was invented, the spec was revised, adding the new (unnumbered) color to M-485a.  Camouflage dopes were listed under M-495.  Some earlier publications assumed the numbers distinguished Light Gray from Blue Gray, but both unnumbered colors appeared in both specs.

 

With the introduction of the Gull Grays in 1943, BuAer offered the following mixes:

 

Gull Gray Dark -- ten parts Light Gray to one part Black

Gull Gray Light (which became 36440) -- two parts Light Gray to one part white

 

Cheers,

 

Dana

 

Dana - thanks for stepping in. Was there a mix of white and black for Light Gray?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Tommy,

 

There were field mixes for Light Gray and Blue Gray while the Fleet awaited factory production of the paints - that's the good news.  The bad news is that I've had to put those files (aka piles of unsorted papers) to the side while I try to finish two other projects.  I'll try to publish the info here once I can get back to work on the USN WW2 aviation camouflage book later this summer.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/04/2023 at 11:20, Dana Bell said:

The "color number" has been a point of confusion for decades, but those numbers had nothing to do with the individual color values.  M-485 was the Navy spec for all camouflage lacquers, including Light Gray.  When Blue Gray was invented, the spec was revised, adding the new (unnumbered) color to M-485a.  Camouflage dopes were listed under M-495.  Some earlier publications assumed the numbers distinguished Light Gray from Blue Gray, but both unnumbered colors appeared in both specs.

 

With the introduction of the Gull Grays in 1943, BuAer offered the following mixes:

 

Gull Gray Dark -- ten parts Light Gray to one part Black

Gull Gray Light (which became 36440) -- two parts Light Gray to one part white

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

 

So finally we can mix Light Grey - just remove one part white from Light Gull Grey!

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
On 4/26/2023 at 10:44 AM, Dana Bell said:

Hi Tommy,

 

There were field mixes for Light Gray and Blue Gray while the Fleet awaited factory production of the paints - that's the good news.  The bad news is that I've had to put those files (aka piles of unsorted papers) to the side while I try to finish two other projects.  I'll try to publish the info here once I can get back to work on the USN WW2 aviation camouflage book later this summer.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

Anxiously awaiting your work on the somewhat elusive blue-grey.  Have tried everything on the market and even made some mixes based on three relics I have viewed in person and it’s a tough color to match.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's a post to Hyperscale from Dana Bell answering a question about the use of model paint Aeromaster and PollyScale ANA 602 for USN Light Gray.  The next to last paragraph of his reply suggests an alternative match for Light Gray. Perhaps Dana will add more.

 

Don

 

**************

 

DanaBellColors

Confusing Light Grays...

Jul 27 '13 #4

 

Is ANA 602 light grey right for Birdcage Corsair under early blue-grey upper/grey lower camouflage scheme?

Have in mind scheme B "Daphne" in Tam Corsair instructions [1/32].

Of interest both Aeromaster 1047 "US Lt. Gull Gray ANA 602," a holdover from the Before Times and PollyScale 505380 "US Gull Gray Lt" have a decided tannish hue. Is tannish hue right for early war BirdCage?

TIA

 

As noted, the original Light Gray for the pre-war monochromatic camouflage and for the wartime Blue Gray/Light Gray scheme was a color all to itself. Although often called Neutrality Gray, that's a modern name that saw no wartime use. (It seems to combine the Navy's Neutrality Patrol with the AAF's Neutral Gray.)

When the ANA colors came along, Light Gray became ANA 602. I've compared my 1943 color chip with prewar samples at the National Archives, and the color is a pretty good match.

When using US camouflage paints for British aircraft, Light Gray was an accepted (if rarely used) substitute for Sea Grey Medium.

With the end of the Navy's use of the Blue Gray/Light Gray scheme, Light Gray eventually fell out of use. By the 1950s, it was no longer useful enough to rate a translation into the new federal specs.

Light Gull Gray came about in early 1944, eventually designated ANA 620. With Light Gray 602 out of favor, Light Gull Gray was ALSO allowed as a substitute (again, rarely used) for Sea Gray Medium. In FS 595, Light Gull Gray became 36440.

In the late 1960s, the Navy was giving out stacks of free ANA color standard booklets, and many modelers were able to get copies for the cost of postage. Trying to match 602 to FS 595, it turned out that there were no good matches; the closest was none other than 36440, which was browner and a bit darker. With two colors noted as "equivilent" to 36440, many thought the original WWII paints were identical - they weren't. The fact that Aeromaster called their paint Light Gull Gray 602 indicates the depth of the confusion - a color can be Light Gull Gray or it can be ANA 602, but it cannot be both.

So that's where the problems come from. As you noted, both paints are tannish, and neither will work very well for Light Gray. (That is, of course, unless you like the color, in which case it's just fine!) Any fairly light, pale gray will do. Oddly enough, you might even be happy with Sea Gray Medium - THAT would be a switch! (I'd darken it ever so slightly, but it's not so awful.

Good luck finding the right color - wish I had a favorite I could advise you to use...

Cheers,


Dana

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...