1:48 Boulton Paul Defiant ASR Mk.I *FINISHED*

[Dunny]

Hi All,

 

My next project will be Airfix' Defiant, back in my more familiar quarter scale after a number of 1:72 builds. Now I have built this kit before as a 'standard' Mk.I, so I thought rather than the usual day or night fighter schemes, I'd go with something a little less common. As @Fritag is currently engaged in a frankly superb 3D printing-enhanced rendition of a target tug, I settled on an Air Sea Rescue variant instead. I shan't bother with the box art or sprue shots as you've all seen them before! 🤣 As my subject I've selected V1121 of 277 Sqn RAF, based at RAF Hawkinge in 1942. Now there are a couple of versions of this scheme available, the first one being this:

 

 

I personally do not believe that DFS would have been used for this mission, so I am going for TSS instead:

 

 

I'm also going to go for dark red aircraft codes- I have not found a photo of this aircraft, but did turn up the following of an aircraft of 276 Sqn:

 

 

As you can see TSS is noted, as are the Dark Red codes and the absence of a Sky identification band. Not apparent are the wing-mounted dinghy pods shown on the schemes. I did turn up a couple of pics relating to these:

 

 

 

I will design these in Fusion and 3D print them, but otherwise the build will be mostly OOB. I will however give Rosie the Riveter a day in the sun, as the kit's surface detail displays not a single rivet:

 

 

As you can see they are a prominent feature of the Defiant, so hopefully that will lift the build a little. I'm rather looking forward to this one!

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Roger

Edited April 22, 2023 by Dunny
Spelling

[bigbadbadge]

Nice choice Roger, looking forward to this one, sorry if I missed the others, I have been frantically looking in RFI and WIP looking for your other two builds, struggling for time to keep up at the mo

Chris

[Dunny]

10 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

Nice choice Roger, looking forward to this one, sorry if I missed the others, I have been frantically looking in RFI and WIP looking for your other two builds, struggling for time to keep up at the mo

Chris

Chris,

 

Nothing missed - just thought I'd kick this one off!

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[bigbadbadge]

Phew, glad I hadn't missed them.

Chris

[Fritag]

Excellent! this’ll be one to enjoy.

 

I expect you’ll get to the painting stage before me Roger , I shall look to you for some tips 

 

I seem to recall that there may be no photo’s of the Defiant with a dinghy being carried in the dinghy racks; but that the set up is the same or similar to the Lysander.    I will double check in the few references I gathered for my TT build.

[Dunny]

20 minutes ago, Fritag said:

Excellent! this’ll be one to enjoy.

 

I expect you’ll get to the painting stage before me Roger , I shall look to you for some tips 

 

I seem to recall that there may be no photo’s of the Defiant with a dinghy being carried in the dinghy racks; but that the set up is the same or similar to the Lysander.    I will double check in the few references I gathered for my TT build.

Steve,

 

Good call - I shall duly trawl the darker corners of t'interweb,

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[AliGauld]

Another build that's got me salivating.

Looking forward to this one Roger.

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[AndyL]

With reference to the load out on ASR Defiants, the port wing carried the dinghy and the starboard carried four smoke floats in the early carrier designed to carry 20lb bombs. I had some images sent to me by the son of an ASR Defiant pilot which shows this set up. The last surviving Defiant in Cosford museum, still has these small attachment points fitted for the bombs.

[Dunny]

4 hours ago, AndyL said:

With reference to the load out on ASR Defiants, the port wing carried the dinghy and the starboard carried four smoke floats in the early carrier designed to carry 20lb bombs. I had some images sent to me by the son of an ASR Defiant pilot which shows this set up. The last surviving Defiant in Cosford museum, still has these small attachment points fitted for the bombs.

Andy,

 

That's very useful information - thank you! I may have such a carrier in the spares box somewhere,

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[Fritag]

On 4/22/2023 at 4:51 AM, Dunny said:

I personally do not believe that DFS would have been used for this mission, so I am going for TSS instead:

 

FWIW Roger, the Airframes Detail No 5 'The BOP defiant A Technical Guide' by Richard A Franks, that I have agrees.  He says that all the ASR machines weer in the TSS scheme and all in the type B pattern.

 

On 4/22/2023 at 4:51 AM, Dunny said:

I'm also going to go for dark red aircraft codes- I have not found a photo of this aircraft, but did turn up the following of an aircraft of 276 Sqn:

 

The Franks book suggests that there are wartime photos of 276 sqn aircraft with dull red codes (as in your example photo) but that the colour of the squadron codes varied but generally were initially Sky and then Medium Sea Grey.

 

Also, the book has a small colour plate of a 277 sqn aircraft (N3398 ) BA -A with Medium Sea Grey codes, Sky spinner and no fuselage band - so red codes might not be correct for a 277 sqn aircraft.

 

Another book I have - 'Boulton Paul Defiant: An Illustrated History' by Alec Brew has a couple of photo's of 277 sqn aircrew standing in front of Defiants, unfortunately no codes can be seen but the aircraft definitely have spinners the same colour as the undersides - so presumably Sky; which may indicate the absence of red codes.

 

Whereas there's a photo of another 276 sqn aircraft - T3997 which also seems to have red codes.  

 

 My guess therefore is that red codes was a 276 sqn thing and not 277 sqn.  But in the absence of a contemporaneous photo who really knows?

 

 

 

 

[Dunny]

1 minute ago, Fritag said:

 

FWIW Roger, the Airframes Detail No 5 'The BOP defiant A Technical Guide' by Richard A Franks, that I have agrees.  He says that all the ASR machines weer in the TSS scheme and all in the type B pattern.

 

 

The Franks book suggests that there are wartime photos of 276 sqn aircraft with dull red codes (as in your example photo) but that the colour of the squadron codes varied but generally were initially Sky and then Medium Sea Grey.

 

Also, the book has a small colour plate of a 277 sqn aircraft (N3398 ) BA -A with Medium Sea Grey codes, Sky spinner and no fuselage band - so red codes might not be correct for a 277 sqn aircraft.

 

Another book I have - 'Boulton Paul Defiant: An Illustrated History' by Alec Brew has a couple of photo's of 277 sqn aircrew standing in front of Defiants, unfortunately no codes can be seen but the aircraft definitely have spinners the same colour as the undersides - so presumably Sky; which may indicate the absence of red codes.

 

Whereas there's a photo of another 276 sqn aircraft - T3997 which also seems to have red codes.  

 

 My guess therefore is that red codes was a 276 sqn thing and not 277 sqn.  But in the absence of a contemporaneous photo who really knows?

 

 

 

 

Steve,

 

Most interesting - thank you. Sky spinner and MSG codes it is!

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[2996 Victor]

Hi Roger,

 

Great subject - I'll pull up a chair if I may as an ASR Defiant is on my to-do list, along with a Spitfire and Thunderbolt. I'll be interested to see how you tackle the stores.

 

Incidentally, I thought ASR Spit codes were yellow. Would Defiants not have been the same?

 

Cheers,

Mark 

[Dunny]

4 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

Hi Roger,

 

Great subject - I'll pull up a chair if I may as an ASR Defiant is on my to-do list, along with a Spitfire and Thunderbolt. I'll be interested to see how you tackle the stores.

 

Incidentally, I thought ASR Spit codes were yellow. Would Defiants not have been the same?

 

Cheers,

Mark 

Welcome aboard Mark! From the above photo I would say definitely not yellow, although dark red and MSG seem to be both viable depending on the squadron concerned,

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[AndyL]

My images of 276 Squadron Defiants at Harrowbeer show red coded letters and both black and sky coloured spinners.

[Troy Smith]

On 23/04/2023 at 07:17, Fritag said:

ut that the colour of the squadron codes varied but generally were initially Sky and then Medium Sea Grey.

After their Hurricane book, I'm cautious of anything by Mr Franks without supporting evidence elsewhere. 

On 23/04/2023 at 07:17, Fritag said:

Also, the book has a small colour plate of a 277 sqn aircraft (N3398 ) BA -A with Medium Sea Grey codes, Sky spinner and no fuselage band - so red codes might not be correct for a 277 sqn aircraft.

know what I say about profiles.....

 

I'd think the answer is Sky, it was the standard code colour by this point. 

see

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235070538-air-sea-rescue-hurricanes-with-276sqn/#elControls_3636774_menu

 

Image posted by @dogsbody  for @Carl V

Note there is an entire scanned article in the link.

 

note in 2nd shot the codes and spinner are a good tonal match, both are in direct sun.  the lower side of the spinner in shadow is a good tonal match for the underside.

20 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

I thought ASR Spit codes were yellow. Would Defiants not have been the same?

The yellow of the fuselage roundel and tips is darker tonally 

 

@Dunny  I don't trust Xtradecal research either.   Does it have a source reference for the 277 Sq scheme?         

 

also shows smoke floats and dinghy rack.

 

 

HTH

[dogsbody]

Here are those two Defiant photos but a bit larger:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Dunny]

7 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

note in 2nd shot the codes and spinner are a good tonal match, both are in direct sun.  the lower side of the spinner in shadow is a good tonal match for the underside.

Troy,

 

I would tend to agree with you, and given the date Sky would make sense. I do not believe there is a source quoted for the Xtradecals scheme so shall go with Sky codes and spinner!

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[Fritag]

The magazine article on Chris’s thread also has a few decent photo’s of dinghy packs on Lysanders 👍

[Dunny]

13 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Here are those two Defiant photos but a bit larger:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

Thanks very much Chris - much appreciated!

[Grey Beema]

I am no expert but the contrast between upperside camouflage colours on BA°A seems high for TSS which usually in photos seems to be difficult to distinguish between colours.  Some areas it is very high as if there has been some repainting going on and whilst on the subject is the pattern non standard too?

[Dunny]

1 hour ago, Grey Beema said:

I am no expert but the contrast between upperside camouflage colours on BA°A seems high for TSS which usually in photos seems to be difficult to distinguish between colours.  Some areas it is very high as if there has been some repainting going on and whilst on the subject is the pattern non standard too?

I did think exactly the same thing GB, although it could be the exposure? I think on balance I'm still going for TSS,

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[Fritag]

FWIW Roger, the Franks profile ( @Troy Smith's warning about the same duly noted and deferred to) also says that BA- A was in TSS -  but had a non standard-camouflage pattern (as spotted by @Grey Beema)  and a wavy lower-fuselage demarcation.

 

Franks suggests that the non standard-camouflage pattern/wavy lower-fuselage demarcation were probably due due to a repaint at unit level.

 

Sounds plausible but I'm not a student of markings and am vaguely surprised to find myself posting on such matters 

[Dunny]

7 minutes ago, Fritag said:

FWIW Roger, the Franks profile ( @Troy Smith's warning about the same duly noted and deferred to) also says that BA- A was in TSS -  but had a non standard-camouflage pattern (as spotted by @Grey Beema)  and a wavy lower-fuselage demarcation.

 

Franks suggests that the non standard-camouflage pattern/wavy lower-fuselage demarcation were probably due due to a repaint at unit level.

 

Sounds plausible but I'm not a student of markings and am vaguely surprised to find myself posting on such matters 

Steve,

 

I must admit I had not noticed the wavy demarcation, which I think definitely worth incorporating. Your (vaguely surprised) addition to the discourse is more than welcome!

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[Phoenix44]

On 24/04/2023 at 15:58, Troy Smith said:

After their Hurricane book, I'm cautious of anything by Mr Franks without supporting evidence elsewhere. 

know what I say about profiles.....

 

I'd think the answer is Sky, it was the standard code colour by this point. 

see

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235070538-air-sea-rescue-hurricanes-with-276sqn/#elControls_3636774_menu

 

Image posted by @dogsbody  for @Carl V

Note there is an entire scanned article in the link.

 

note in 2nd shot the codes and spinner are a good tonal match, both are in direct sun.  the lower side of the spinner in shadow is a good tonal match for the underside.

The yellow of the fuselage roundel and tips is darker tonally 

 

@Dunny  I don't trust Xtradecal research either.   Does it have a source reference for the 277 Sq scheme?         

 

also shows smoke floats and dinghy rack.

 

 

HTH

From the reversal of the red and blue in the roundel and fin flash, is that not ortho film? If so, yellow and red would appear very dark whereas the codes do not. If it is ortho therefore the codes are almost certainly not yellow or red. I can't see roundels on either upper or lower wings either, unlike those profiles. Something odd on the upper rudder too?

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Phoenix44 said:

From the reversal of the red and blue in the roundel and fin flash, is that not ortho film?

the yellow is not really dark, on ortho is looks near black,  so I'd suggest it's not ortho film, but a filter, possibly a blue filter? The lighten blues and darkernd red and yellow, but a google says these are unusual for B/W film use, so likely a filter and film type effect.

 

I'll @JackG  as he's good on these details and possible colour from these variations.