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Help and advice - panel lines and rivets


Bill1974

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Hiya 

 

I have been wondering (and there has to be) if there are sites like for tanks that talk about all the different tank / modifications / ethos etc etc

 

Like this but for planes....

 

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/

 

If there is I have not found it as I have searched, but the I twrnwt is a ma-who-sive place and what I want is rather niche.

 

Is there a place I could ask about this so that others can post their site recommendations?

 

I like to read all about the model I'm making, the design, manufacture and use, also all the factual stuff about revision of design / timeline changes and such.

 

There are some websites I lookup when I want photos, but they also do aircraft, but new additions to photographic database would be great.

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited by Bill1974
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Hmmm, how about this one ;)

https://plane-encyclopedia.com/

 

I cannot say how good the info there is. In general, sites with such a wide scope of covered aircraft types and eras are limited in how far they can go into minute details for specific designs (possible exception are sites dedicated to a specific aircraft/airforces/eras but quality varies of course). So for specific info dedicated forums like this one often are a better option.

 

 

Cheers

Markus

Edited by Shorty84
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9 hours ago, Bill1974 said:

and what I want is rather niche.

 

Is there a place I could ask about this

Here. 

This is one of the best places to ask.   Hyperscale is good for US types.

Modellers are very good at 

9 hours ago, Bill1974 said:

the design, manufacture and use, also all the factual stuff about revision of design / timeline changes and such.

as this affect the model.  We also have members  on here who quite literally have written the book on various subjects, and will get answers that are the results of years of study. 

 

Unless you just happen to like research,  the simplest thing is to ask about a specific subject here.    Tip, add britmodeller into a google search term, as it searches the site very well.  I suggest this as if you don't get your answer,  link any relevant/related threads you have found, which shows you have made a basic foray into what you wish to find out.  

Many of the questions you may want answers to have quite possibly been asked,  and from personal experience, you will get answers to questions you didn't even know to ask....

Also, think about your thread heading, the more precise the better as this shows your question at a glance looking at the forum, and a good question creates interest.

 

You may not get a definitive answer though, sometimes the data just runs out, or has been lost etc. 

 

HTH

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58 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

You may not get a definitive answer though, sometimes the data just runs out, or has been lost etc


 

More questions!!

 

I am relatively new to this site and don't know where to ask.

 

1) Where do I find info on panel lines paint advice. Is this stuff just really fine paint that does in recesses?

 

I see tamiya and vallejo stuff and never knew what the ‘thing’ was as I mostly made tanks at that point, now I'm moving into aircraft I think I need to learn up a little but have no idea of the extra bits and bobs I should buy and or to read up on let alone where it is.

 

2) panel line engraving tools, which ones to buy and how to use for best effect. What tools does a new modeller of planes need?  I'm tooled up for tanks and stuff and have lots of perspex type stuff and plastic sheets, strings and wire etc.

 

I've seen them ‘panel line tools’ advertised and wondered what the ‘thing’ was mostly making tanks. Same as above really need to learn and not sure where to start.

 

3) I've been looking through some of the old wip project and see people using paints I have no idea of and getting really good metal effects on engines and such.  I've mainly used water based acrylics from vallejo but it seems I'm missing something with the metallic paints and effect but I don't know what that is, where is the place to ask and where to read up.  My eyes spin as there is so much info on this site I can't see the wheat for the chaff as it were.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

I'm going to do as you suggest and search google with the ‘britmodeller’ tag thing.

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6 minutes ago, Bill1974 said:

1) Where do I find info on panel lines paint advice. Is this stuff just really fine paint that does in recesses?

yes.

You don't 'need' it.     

FWIW, I use artist oil paint thinned with lighter fuel, which makes a very thin, very seeking and very fast drying wash.  Use over an acrylic gloss.  I use it neat over Vallejo.  Good quality oils have finer and better pigment,  but you only need a tiny amount. 

 

  Don't use neat black.   

It is screams wash or panel liner, it's too much. 

All a wash does is add shadow and break up a surface. 

33477289498_a8b4dc203c_b.jpg

 

in the background, some lighter fuel, and oil paint, the really old tubes, black and burnt umber, date from about 1973 (I know this as they are German, from a years spent in Germany then)..... the white is merely from the late 70's....

I just used lighter fuel as a solvent, applied it, wicked, scrubbed it off etc etc.... using a either black/brown, or with some white for dirty grey.

it's worked quite well, added some depth to panel lines, and added a bit of tonal modulation.

33485574868_8c824a6022_b.jpg

 

47300573662_eb9c2b105b_b.jpg

 

46448006295_6a6004f9f5_b.jpg

 

dirty grey, adds shadow to the panel lines, and the little bit left on the surface breaks up the base colour a little bit

matt varnished

47334121592_aa55db8b85_b.jpg

 

it's nothing really clever,  just some artistic shading.   

 

 If you go to my profile, and look at the 'about me' you'll find the few things I have completed, they have WIP, and you can see if you like what I use.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Bill1974 said:

panel line engraving tools, which ones to buy and how to use for best effect. What tools does a new modeller of planes need?  I'm tooled up for tanks and stuff and have lots of perspex type stuff and plastic sheets, strings and wire etc.

you probably have most if what you need from armour.   Same basic tools.

You can buy engravers, which remove a thin sliver, but a sewing needle in a pin vice* will work for most things, or the tip of scalpel. 

UNless you are planning on rescribing an old kit, you probably don't need one.

 

*a sewing needle in a pin vice  is a tool I use a lot, line scribing, as a centre point for drilling, adding tiny drops of superglue. 

 

10 minutes ago, Bill1974 said:

I've been looking through some of the old wip project and see people using paints I have no idea of and getting really good metal effects on engines and such.  I've mainly used water based acrylics from vallejo but it seems I'm missing something with the metallic paints and effect but I don't know what that is, where is the place to ask and where to read up.  My eyes spin as there is so much info on this site I can't see the wheat for the chaff as it were.

There are different types, in some ways it will depend on what type of paint you like and how you apply it.   

I can't advise on this, I've not done bare metal as yet.    Find a build you like, and ask.   

 

These would have been better in the paint sections, and tools and modelling techniques.

 

As  with all this, note my SIG line,  it's what works for YOU.   I added this as there are lots of techniques and styles that go in and out of style, and modellers then building models that look like other models,  rather than looking at the real thing, how they wear and weather.

I see models on here at times that are skillful, but silly.  A month old Spitfire looking like 2 year old unit hack for example. 

Study photos, if in doubt, ask for references..   

 

 

I'd also suggest doing a work in progress, or joining a group build, and asking in those, but most of it is experimenting on scrap and seeing how it things work.

HTH

 

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7 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

but most of it is experimenting on scrap and seeing how it things work.

HTH

 

I've been reading some articles using the ‘britmodeller’ google search and have watched a very interesting video where this guy made the panel lines after painting by scribing the paint gently so that it left a thin line showing the black undercoat beneath the finished colour, very clever and better looking.

 

Also found a revell rivet tool which I'm gonna buy.  Great advice, thanks!

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Ah, panel lines. A pet subject of mine!

 

When looking at pics of the real aircraft, you will notice that there is a lot of variation. The panel lines vary, some are just panel lines between two adjacent panels. Sometimes it's a hatch that opens, the line then becomes more prominent to the eye. Sometimes it's around a moving surface.

 

To try to reproduce these variations is great fun! I often find the panel lines in any kit to be too uniform. Why not introduce variation by various levels of depth and width to the panel lines? Too broad and/or blunt lines can be made finer by careful sanding with fine wet'n'dry. 

IMHO, the best scribing tool in my rather large toolbox is the etched ones from Radu Brinzan; RB Productions Scribe-R RB-T019. But other good one ones exist as well. Using several different on the same model will also give variation.

The kit manufacturers use different qualities of styrene. Test initially on the inside of a wing, to get o feeling for each particular kit, how it will respond to scribing. 

 

The second, complimentary way is by using paint or washes. Again, try to introduce variation by varying contrast. Start with just a slightly darker version of the basic color. You can then add darker versions. Variation can also be accomplished bu using different darkening colors, brown, gray, blue etc.

 

By slightly varying the shade of colour on different panels the same effect of variation will also be introduced. Small variations in the final top varnish, avoid uniformity. Shadow shading is another method.

 

 

But be careful not to overdo it! You're after so small variations that it should not be directly visible to the naked eye. But you'll find that it will give life to your model.

 

I'll never forget a 1/48 TBF Avenger made by a very skilled modeller at a competition. It was painted in the Atlantic escort scheme of medium grey and white. But every present modellers eyes were drawn to it, it looked SO realistic! We just couldn't understand why?

I turned out the the modeller had used over 40 different shades of the same gray! We couldn't really see it directly, it was so subtle. Numerous variations of the underside white, and innumerable variations of the washes used.

 

Practice, test! You will quickly develop your own artistic skills. Always remember; less is more.

 

Good luck! 

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've bought a revell rivet maker and a eclipse double ended scribe and intend on adding the rivets and panel lines to my saab viggen I'm making in wip at the moment.  It's an old esci kit and had raised panel lines that I have sanded off and I have tech ish drawings that is going to be my guide for panel lines and rivets.

 

My question is this:

 

Do you use a scriber (my new eclipse double ended scribe) and then use the rivet tool (my new revell rivet maker) or only one of those or a combination to give a varying look.

 

Also the revell rivet maker has rivet wheels A, B, C and D without stating what scales they are for and I have searched and can find nothing, help please!

 

Not having done any of this before I would like a steer!

Edited by Bill1974
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  • Bill1974 changed the title to Help and advice - panel lines and rivets

Hiya all,

 

After a long and arduous search I believe I have found the answer to the scales of the rivet tool, it seems the ‘trumpeter rivet maker’ and the ‘revell rivet maker’ are pretty much the same, and have the following scales;

 

A = 1/72

B = 1/32

C = 1/48

D = 1/24

 

I felt it was necessary to be very precise here as others who search for the answer to a simple query now have an easy answer ready for them by using the ;britmodeller internet search tag!

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Is there a technique I'm missing as I am really struggling to get an accurate line of rivets with this tool, they all seem to have a central metal rivet wheel that fits centrally so you can't see where to tools is running over or really where your going.

 

If this was an airbrush the paint pot would be huge and would obscure your view......

 

I must be missing something as I'm almost bumbling along like mr magoo on a bad day!

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