"Standard gauge" 4ft 8½in, where to measure?

[bootneck]

I note that the measurement for a standard guage rail track is 4ft 8½in but where do I take the measurement?  Is it between the inner part of the rails, outer, or down the middle?

 

cheers,
Mike

[RAF4EVER]

Rail gauge is the distance between the rails, measured between the insides of the heads slightly below the top, as the rail head is slightly rounded, both when new and when worn.

 

Taken from here:

 

https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjxh6Hu15D-AhVC-qQKHdqmDfwQFnoECDUQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.festipedia.org.uk%2Fwiki%2FRail_gauge&usg=AOvVaw1sRCpYM7UIrHYAOU2Q9YFG

[bootneck]

Thanks. I want to scratchbuild some bits and pieces but I didn't know where to take the distance from.

 

cheers,
Mike

[Planebuilder62]

Dear Mike

Have you thought about buying EM gauge parts to make tracks and such? Apparently these are more accurate than normal OO gauge track.

Regards Toby

[bootneck]

Hi Toby,

 

My plan is to scratchbuild a section of track at 1:35 scale for a diorama.  I just needed to know what were the dimension of the standard gauge was, so that I could scale it to 1:35.

 

cheers,
Mike

[Planebuilder62]

How about O gauge Peco Streamline track? Will that be cloe enough?
 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Planebuilder62
typo

[bootneck]

I hadn't thought about that, it should be close enough for what I need.  Thank you for the suggestion. 

 

cheers,
Mike

[malpaso]

Commercial model railway track is generally hideously out of scale for scale modellers.  No one would accept a model P-51D with an 88% wingspan - that’s 00 for you!

 

1435mm Standard gauge at 1/35 = 41mm

so Ogauge too small at 32mm

and 1gauge too big at 45mm

 

TBH your best bet is to get some rail and set it out to the correct gauge for scale on scratch sleepers.  Commercial rail track is often overscale, especially in height, resembling massive modern mainline whereas most real world track is lighter, especially in the past.

Model rail is usually sold by Code, which equates to thousandths of an inch, so Code 40 rail is 1mm high and Code 100 = 2.5mm.

 

For older UK rail track you would want bullhead rail (BH) which is quite a different section to flatbottom (FB) used virtually universally in the rest of the world since the early days.

 

For a NW Europe diorama There’s this option.  if it’s still available.

[bootneck]

Thanks Malpaso.  This is the type of scenario that I hope to be able to construct for a GB.

Only a section of it, of course!

 

 

Cheers,

Mike

[Grey Beema]

You can buy track components (Rails, Sleepers, Rail Chairs etc and build the track how you want to.  If you only want to build a short length that might be the way to go.

 

This is an example.  Never user these suppliers but it will give you the general idea..

 

https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/online-store/Rail-Chairs-c32279085

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Grey Beema

[Planebuilder62]

These nice people in Sheffield might be able to help http://www.marcway.net/

 

regards Toby

[Planebuilder62]

Or this one https://peco-uk.com/products/flexible-flat-bottom-track-wooden-sleeper?_pos=13&_sid=0327aeb4f&_ss=r

regards Toby

[malpaso]

Those photos show quite light FB rail with bolted clips to wooden sleepers.  Unusual but not unknown in UK, could be a training establishment by the Austerity(?) tank.

Apart from the rail itself, you'd be better off avoiding railway modelling establishments as this track is not the type sold for layouts (except esoteric light or narrow gauge ones).

[Circloy]

1 hour ago, bootneck said:

Thanks Malpaso.  This is the type of scenario that I hope to be able to construct for a GB.

Only a section of it, of course!

 

 

Cheers,

Mike

From the logo on the side of the crane it's a Smiths steam crane (check this 1950s advert)  https://graces-guide-s3-live.s3.amazonaws.com/gracesguide/2/2c/Im1960v210-p522aa.jpg

They would be self propelled so no need of a loco.

 

To make your own track try PECO Individulay for track & track components for scratch building - code 143 should be fine for 1/35  https://peco-uk.com/collections/peco/143

IL-7fb for rail & IL-712 for chairs. You would need to fashion your own sleepers.

 

Interesingly the light colour of the sleepers in the second picture suggests they are untreated wood.

 

 

[bootneck]

Thanks everyone, such helpful advice indeed.  I shall spend the weekend looking through those links for ideas.

 

The photos were taken at the Marchwood military port, Southampton.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

 

 

[Circloy]

12 hours ago, bootneck said:

Thanks everyone, such helpful advice indeed.  I shall spend the weekend looking through those links for ideas.

 

The photos were taken at the Marchwood military port, Southampton.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

 

 

Just a thought & possible option.

 

Whilst it's obvious from the earlier pics and those on the link in your post that standard gauge track is in use many industrial locations, inluding docks, used narrow gauge track, a common one being 3ft 6in. If you were to build in 1/35th then PECO's O gauge track would scale out @ 3ft 8in which might be considered to be a 'close enough' compromise.

 

Railway equipment manufacturers would offer narrow gauge a one of their standard options so in real life it wouldn't be an issue to the manufacturers of the crane.

[albergman]

Mike

 

I have 3 display steam engines now sitting on display tracks that I 3D printed.  I know you have some familiarity with this stuff and you'd get the perfect size you're looking for.   I even printed the metal plate-thingies that hold the rails in place.   The sleepers were done with real wood but could easily have been printed too.   Mine were done on a filament printer so not the best for fine stuff but your resin printer would work great.

 

Frank

[bootneck]

Hello Frank,

 

yes, I had been considering doing the track in 3D, it's just the cold weather that is putting me off.  I don't want to go putting heaters on to warm up the resin; however, there does seem to be some improvement on the weather so, who knows?

 

Cheers,
Mike

[dcrfan]

If your building scale models of railway rolling stock not in a traditional 'model railway' gauge, which 1/35th scale isn't, please don't be bound by existing model railway gauges. By all means use existing model railway components but building scale track is easy as pie as is regauging wheelsets. My unfinished 1/35th scale Rhodesian Garratt (3ft - 6in gauge) is a severe kit bash of two 1/35th scale standard gauge WW2 German locomotives using wheels, wheel bearings, driving rods (length changed) and boiler backhead details etc. Do have look at the 1/35th German WW2 diesels as a source of wheels etc like this one  https://www.knotmodels.com/products/trumpeter-1-35-german-wr-360-c12-locomotive-1-35-plastic-model

 

I used the standard gauge track sections that come with the two kits, and available separately by several manufacturers (in my case regauged to correct Rhodesian Cape narrow gauge.

 

 

Thinking about it I still have all the original tender wheels from the kits, what diameter wheels do you need?  You can get standard gauge 1/35th wagon wheels from Miniart https://www.ebay.com/itm/143611666092 

There are also sources of resin 1/35th wheels suitable for non running rolling stock. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by dcrfan

[bootneck]

That is a fantastic looking model you have built dc. I have been advised that the loco in my setting was a J94 Austerity loco, built 1944, and I think it looks like the Airfix Saddle Tank.  I might get one of those, just for measurements and scale it up to 1:35.

 

The steam cranes appear to have much smaller wheels than standard locomotives.  Like the saddle tank, I don't know the size of these wheels so I'll probably just make some up with styrene sheet.

 

With regard to the track guage, I found this drawing which does show the guage to be 4ft 8½in so I shall keep to that.

 

 

cheers,
Mike

[halfwit]

The austerity was quite different to the Aifix kit linked to I'm afraid. Airfix did make a suitable kit (of the similar J94), which was then re-released by Dapol, but the moulds were destroyed in a fire. Surviving unbuilt examples are out there, but are now quite collectable. However, the smaller Airfix loco is easier to find (again Dapol have re-released it), and smaller so might be a better choice to copy for 1/35.

 

I have a 4mm Austerity on the go, a detailed RTR model, but I've just realised that I haven't touched it for 10 years!

[bootneck]

There you go Paul, you've given yourself a wake up call for you to get on with finishing it.   That way, I can ask you for some measurements etc!  Did your kit come with a diagram or plan?

 

cheers,

 

Mike

EDIT:  I've just looked at your blog Paul and seen your work on the loco wheels.  I have a mini-lathe, although I've not really learned how to use it yet, and I could have a go at making the loco wheels for my steam crane.

 

[halfwit]

I don't think that I have any kit diagrams or plans that would be of use to you, but I do have scale drawings that I could probably copy. I'll dig them out later if needed.

[bootneck]

Hi Paul,

 

I would be grateful to get hold of copies, if you find them please.  I'll send you a pm with my email addy if you can scan them.

 

I have just received this kit of a Russian gauge railway track set.  The gauge is 5 foot but I shouldn't have any problem resizing the gap to 4ft 8½ in.

 

 

cheers,
Mike

[halfwit]

I'll have a dig about and get back to you Mike.