F4U-2 Night Fighting Corsair Colour Help

[Mark Cassidy]

Hi 

 

Am looking to pick pick some collective knowledge if I can. 

 

I am looking to build a F4U2 corsair nightfighter. These were birdcage corsairs converted to the role of night fighters with the addition of the AI radar on the starboard wing. These served in WW2 from both USS enterprise and from land bases in the Pacific. The later F4U 5N came much later and served in Korea. 

 

I have looked around the Web for images of the corsairs and I am trying to figure out the colour scheme , from the images some appear tri color scheme, some appear with the 3 colour scheme but with the dark blue extending all the way down the sides or that could just be the effect of light on the  bw photo and some appear in the early 2 colour scheme.

 

So all in all am a bit confused lol can anyone help me or point me in the right direction

 

Cheers 

 

Mark

[gingerbob]

Here's a start- and make sure to read the comments, too.

 

http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2013/06/f4u-2-color-scheme.html

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Mark Cassidy said:

some appear with the 3 colour scheme

read this and the link on the tri color scheme

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235123995-f6f-3-hellcat-paintingweathering-issues/

 

as I was typing @gingerbob posted,  and I'd not found @Tailspin Turtle  blog link.  Tommy is one of the USN researchers so 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mark Cassidy said:

I have looked around the Web for images of the corsairs and I am trying to figure out the colour scheme , from the images some appear tri color scheme, some appear with the 3 colour scheme but with the dark blue extending all the way down the sides or that could just be the effect of light on the  bw photo and some appear in the early 2 colour scheme.

they may well be in both....   depending on date

 

Vought F4U 2 Corsair VF(N) 101 Det B CVG 6 aboard CV 11 USS Intrepid off Truk 16th Feb 1944 

 

if the caption is right this is 1945

Vought F4U 2 Corsairs from VMF(N) 532 on board CVE 92 USS Windham Bay 12th Jul 1945

 

the above look to have their sides toned down with one of the Sea Blues, note the overspray onto the fin. 

 

there is a very detailed blog post here, well worth a read as the author was talking to one a the surviving pilots

 

https://forgottenhobby.wordpress.com/2017/01/05/daves-answer/

 

I'll have a browse of @Dana Bell  Corsair monographs later on as well. 

 

Not one of my best posts, it's a subject I'm interested in, but not that up on,   but have a read of the links.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Please excuse diversion, but the Intrepid photo has an interesting jeep being used as a tow tractor.  It shows signs of being repainted out of the production standard OD but not with the usual light USN grey seen on shoreside vehicles.  Presumably one of the middle-toned USN blue-greys of the period rather than aircraft paint.  USMC jeeps used a medium green so perhaps it could be this?  Note the clearance around the number and the wear around the side frame by the driver.

 

Some of us do model other things as well as aircraft.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Graham Boak
Minor improvement to text.

[gingerbob]

1 minute ago, Graham Boak said:

Some of us do model other things than aircraft.

 

There are other things?

 

Note that in Troy's second photo a Hellcat just managed to photo-bomb!

[Phoenix44]

5 hours ago, gingerbob said:

 

There are other things?

 

Note that in Troy's second photo a Hellcat just managed to photo-bomb!

Hellcat? I thought that was a Dauntless? 

[Phoenix44]

Note the flame dampening exhausts on the first aircraft in the first photo posted by Troy.

[Chuck1945]

23 minutes ago, Phoenix44 said:

Hellcat? I thought that was a Dauntless? 

Sure looks like a SBD to me as well. 

[Troy Smith]

31 minutes ago, Phoenix44 said:

Hellcat? I thought that was a Dauntless? 

 

7 minutes ago, Chuck1945 said:

Sure looks like a SBD to me as well. 

Hellcat at left, just the grin, SBD at rear.

I'd not noticed either,  was just looking to illustrate the F4U-2 !

6 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Please excuse diversion, but the Intrepid photo has an interesting jeep being used as a tow tractor.

I'd wondered about that myself!

Hmm, @Tailspin Turtle may have some ideas on colors/use? 

 

Glad the photos have been of interest.

[Troy Smith]

8 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

but the Intrepid photo has an interesting jeep being used as a tow tractor.  It shows signs of being repainted out of the production standard OD but not with the usual light USN grey seen on shoreside vehicles.  Presumably one of the middle-toned USN blue-greys of the period rather than aircraft paint.  USMC jeeps used a medium green so perhaps it could be this?  Note the clearance around the number and the wear around the side frame by the driver.

https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=78186

 

 

 

 

To me, the jeep looks the same colour as the inside of the lift,  and I presume would have been a US Navy color for deck equipment?

a flipped version with better color

 

 

 

Perhaps @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies  may have an idea? and may find this interesting. 

 

Oh, more here, 

https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=140351

 

with some rather color shifted images...

 

though this looks reasonable

 

USS Lexington, Activities on USS Lexington in South Pacific. Gasoline crew relaxes around during lull in operations. Nov. 1943

Though this look like Olive Drab too me, but does have a visible number.   One of the post on the jeep forum noted they have no windshields fitted.

 

pics came from here 

https://historylink101.com/ww2_navy/org/aircarr/index.html

 

Answering questions I did know I wanted to ask indeed....

 

[Graham Boak]

Thanks for finding these.  The Lex one looks like Sea Blue to me.   The next darker colour would be Navy Blue (not as dark as UK colour of the same name).   The Enterprise one might be the next colour down in the range - Ocean Gray - but I suspect probably Sea Blue too.

[David H]

9 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

read this and the link on the tri color scheme

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235123995-f6f-3-hellcat-paintingweathering-issues/

 

as I was typing @gingerbob posted,  and I'd not found @Tailspin Turtle  blog link.  Tommy is one of the USN researchers so 

 

 

 

they may well be in both....   depending on date

 

Vought F4U 2 Corsair VF(N) 101 Det B CVG 6 aboard CV 11 USS Intrepid off Truk 16th Feb 1944 

 

if the caption is right this is 1945

Vought F4U 2 Corsairs from VMF(N) 532 on board CVE 92 USS Windham Bay 12th Jul 1945

 

the above look to have their sides toned down with one of the Sea Blues, note the overspray onto the fin. 

 

there is a very detailed blog post here, well worth a read as the author was talking to one a the surviving pilots

 

https://forgottenhobby.wordpress.com/2017/01/05/daves-answer/

 

I'll have a browse of @Dana Bell  Corsair monographs later on as well. 

 

Not one of my best posts, it's a subject I'm interested in, but not that up on,   but have a read of the links.  

 

 

 

 

 

Gosh! I'd completely forgotten about that article. Not that much that i would change except i think Semi Gloss Sea Blue is actually slightly lighter than Non Spec Sea Blue. Jamie Duff could fact check me on this. Still think the fuselage flanks were over-painted with some sort of blue; not black.

 

-d-

[Troy Smith]

15 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

The Lex one looks like Sea Blue to me.

I'd still say no.   The flesh, uniform and deck all look about right,  and note top right, deck equipment in blue-grey.

All the WW2 sea blues are  purple-blue hued dark greys,  like the deck stain.    Unless it's the USMC green you mentioned above? 

 

note also the seats are very similar in color to the insides. 

 

3 minutes ago, David H said:

Gosh! I'd completely forgotten about that article.

No Idea you were one here as well!   Great story about doing a veteran a model. 

 

cheers

T  

[e8n2]

16 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Please excuse diversion, but the Intrepid photo has an interesting jeep being used as a tow tractor.  It shows signs of being repainted out of the production standard OD but not with the usual light USN grey seen on shoreside vehicles.  Presumably one of the middle-toned USN blue-greys of the period rather than aircraft paint.  USMC jeeps used a medium green so perhaps it could be this?  Note the clearance around the number and the wear around the side frame by the driver.

 

Some of us do model other things as well as aircraft.

Yes Graham, some of us do!  I just checked and at the time, the Intrepid was in Ms 32 3/a, the main colors being 5-O Ocean Gray, 5-L Light Gray, and Black.  To me, if they used the ship's colors, the wheels are 5-L Light Gray and the top and sides could be, but not limited to, 5-O Ocean Gray.  At that time the grays had a bit of blue in them and Ocean Gray looks a lot like FS 35237, or even Intermediate Blue.  In the spring of 1945 the ships colors started going to pure grays, mixtures of only black and white.

Later,

Dave

[Ed Russell]

When I made it I followed the Owl Decals instructions for Midnite Cocktail. They are usually quite well researched. Three colour scheme.

 

 

 

[Mark Cassidy]

Thanks everyone thats been really helpful, I knew I could rely on you all to help me get to the bottom of this. 

 

Cheers much 🙂

 

Mark

[Mark Cassidy]

3 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

When I made it I followed the Owl Decals instructions for Midnite Cocktail. They are usually quite well researched. Three colour scheme.

 

 

 

Cracking build mate, hope mines comes out half as good as that.

 

Quick question, the exhaust stubs, they look long, are they they flame dampners that I have seen mentioned in literature do u know? The later 5N had strakes high up on the forward fuselage to avoid blinding the pilot, but these seem different on the F4U2

 

Regards

[Tailspin Turtle]

33 minutes ago, Mark Cassidy said:

Cracking build mate, hope mines comes out half as good as that.

 

Quick question, the exhaust stubs, they look long, are they they flame dampners that I have seen mentioned in literature do u know? The later 5N had strakes high up on the forward fuselage to avoid blinding the pilot, but these seem different on the F4U2

 

Regards

Yes - flame suppressor or damper. See https://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2013/06/f4u-2-color-scheme.html. Note that these were to minimize its visual signature at night.

[e8n2]

On 4/1/2023 at 3:31 PM, Troy Smith said:

I'd still say no.   The flesh, uniform and deck all look about right,  and note top right, deck equipment in blue-grey.

All the WW2 sea blues are  purple-blue hued dark greys,  like the deck stain.    Unless it's the USMC green you mentioned above? 

 

note also the seats are very similar in color to the insides. 

 

No Idea you were one here as well!   Great story about doing a veteran a model. 

 

cheers

T  

There are two possibilities if you go with ship's colors.  One is 5-N Navy Blue, the other being 20-B Deck Blue.  For most of the war the Lexington was in Measure 21, overall 5-N Navy Blue, hence the nickname, the "Blue Ghost" since the Japanese claimed to have sunk it so many times.  It is now a museum ship.  20-B Deck Blue is a little bit darker than 5-N.  The flight deck was in stain 21 which is lighter than 5-N Navy Blue.  For more information you can always go to the Ships Camouflage web site at:

 

https://www.shipcamouflage.com/warship_camouflage.htm

 

I have no connection to the site other than the two guys who started it, John Snyder and Randy Short have been members of the club I go to in Sacramento, California, IPMS/Silverwings.  Randy is still a member and John has moved onto other things.

Later,

Dave

[Phoenix44]

On 02/04/2023 at 00:31, Troy Smith said:

I'd still say no.   The flesh, uniform and deck all look about right,  and note top right, deck equipment in blue-grey.

All the WW2 sea blues are  purple-blue hued dark greys,  like the deck stain.    Unless it's the USMC green you mentioned above? 

 

note also the seats are very similar in color to the insides. 

 

No Idea you were one here as well!   Great story about doing a veteran a model. 

 

cheers

T  

I'm not convinced by the flesh colour, unless they've all got jaundice! Very yellowy-white when you'd expect more red and perhaps more brown as they are at sea and outside much of the time. Digitised Kodachrome can produce very drab greens if not done carefully. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Phoenix44

[e8n2]

A little something here to add to the discussion:

 

This is the stern of a WIF PT-789 I am working on.  There was a PT-789 contracted but the contract was cancelled with the end of the war, so it was never built.  There was also a PT boat scheme Measure 35 8/p which apparently was never used.  Besides the hull red (actually copperoyd but hull red is good enough), with 5-P Pale Gray, 5-N Navy Blue, 5-O Ocean Gray, and 20-B Deck Blue.  Deck Blue was only used on the deck and superstructure and Navy Blue only on the hull.  At the stern you can see the difference between Deck Blue and Navy Blue,  In this picture the Ocean Gray looks more gray, but without the flash it is definitely a bluish color.  It is getting close to being gloss coated so the decals can be applied.

Later,

Dave

[e8n2]

On 4/2/2023 at 10:31 PM, e8n2 said:

There are two possibilities if you go with ship's colors.  One is 5-N Navy Blue, the other being 20-B Deck Blue.  For most of the war the Lexington was in Measure 21, overall 5-N Navy Blue, hence the nickname, the "Blue Ghost" since the Japanese claimed to have sunk it so many times.  It is now a museum ship.  20-B Deck Blue is a little bit darker than 5-N.  The flight deck was in stain 21 which is lighter than 5-N Navy Blue.  For more information you can always go to the Ships Camouflage web site at:

 

https://www.shipcamouflage.com/warship_camouflage.htm

 

I have no connection to the site other than the two guys who started it, John Snyder and Randy Short have been members of the club I go to in Sacramento, California, IPMS/Silverwings.  Randy is still a member and John has moved onto other things.

Later,

Dave

Randy Short was at our meeting tonight.  He said it would have been painted in Equipment Gray which is like a Neutral Ocean Gray.  Jaime @ Sovereign Hobbies should have plenty in stock.  It is also known as #17 Neutral Ocean Gray, meaning it reflects 17% of the available light.  If you don't need a tin of a naval color then something like FS 36176 or FS 36173 should do.

Later,

Dave