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UA Leopard


Bozothenutter

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Saw something related on reddit. Leopard fitted with an ERA.At the time the photo was taken, it looks like the front, with some framework on the turret face?

https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/125wxfk/leopard_fitted_with_an_era/?sort=new

 

Seems that there are 1/35 ERA blocks as aftermarket for those that cant wait.

Edited by NoSG0
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  • 3 weeks later...

Noting that the great majority of Leopards currently pledged to Ukraine are actually 1A4s and 1A5s.  The German-Dutch supply of about 180 Leo 1s outnumbers the Leo 2s more than 3 times over.  The large German, Dutch and Belgian surplusses of several hundred Leo 2s have all been sold off already.  The decommissioned Spanish ones are largely too far gone to rework, having been left to rot and not stored properly.  Norway may be able to pass over its current 2A4s once it gets its new 2A7s but that will be some time hence.  Likewise Poland once its M1A1s, M1A2s and K2s have arrived in sufficient numbers to replace its Leo 2s.

 

Ukraine will almost certainly fit its own additional defensive aids, as noted by NoSG0.  The Turkish practical experience of Leo 2A4s in Syria has shown them to be vulnerable to Russian munitions.

 

There has been talk of establishing K2 production in Ukraine - in the West of the country, not at vulnerable Kharkiv - or supplying K2s from Polish production.

 

Many other countries have tanks they could supply but are choosing not to get involved.  Jordan apparently has about 350 Challenger 1s and 350 Khalids in storage, both still viable against T-72/80/90 and very viable against the T-62 and 55 that Russia is now apparently forced to field.  Ammunition for those would, however, be a problem (as it is for CR2) as production has ceased and would need to be re-established.  Although Jordan prototyped a new 120mm smoothbore gun turret for CR1 but chose not to proceed.  That could be revived and perhaps adapted to the Khalid hull.  The CR3 turret might be compatible with the CR1 hull and might perhaps be made compatible with the Khalid hull, which shares automotive components with CR1.  Israel has many decommissioned Merkava 1s and 2s, but these may be too far gone to refurbish after years in open storage.

 

But in order not to replicate Russia's mistakes, Ukraine needs large numbers of infantry mobility vehicles to accompany its new tanks.  And why are the US Bradleys being supplied without armament?

 

 

Edited by Kingsman
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On 19/04/2023 at 11:39, Kingsman said:

And why are the US Bradleys being supplied without armament?

 

 

Good question, is it just the chain gun or are the missiles not being supplied eother?

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On 4/19/2023 at 8:39 PM, Kingsman said:And why are the US Bradleys being supplied without armament?

 

 

They are being supplied with armament. There’s a picture of two in a training environment with the barrels (& maybe the bodies, as well) of the 25mm guns. That is a normal procedure when the gun is not required. It can be fitted in minutes. 

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9 hours ago, Paul in Napier said:

Although those nets look b awful, would save on a pixel camo mask job (or most of it!)

 

Who does the best Bradley please?

Don't think their there to look pretty 😉😁

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There have been unconfirmed reports in the press. About the fact that Leopard 1A5s will also be handed over to Ukraine. Quite a few are stored in warehouses. I assume that they will be fine-tuned in Ukraine, for example by adding reactive Contact-1 armor. This could be an interesting what if project.

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Confirmed that Germany and The Netherlands are jointly funding the refurbishment and supply of up to 180 1A5.  I haven't seen the source of the tanks concerned identified.  A Leo 2 has been seen fitted with ERA as per the top photo, and it is logical to assume that this will be applied to all Leo 2s and Leo 1s, which are in greater need of it.

 

I had only seen photos of unarmed Bradleys at the time, but then I hadn't specifically been looking.

 

The pixel cam is a bit too low-contrast to be really useful.  The nets are much more useful in breaking up the vehicle outline when moving and can quickly and easily be stretched out on poles or vegetation when static to further break up the shape.

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How is a Leo 1 better than T-72/64?

Not political, just technical please.

A lot of fun was being made of russians mobilising old tanks, but isn't this the same?

All I read about is UA not using them in direct battle but infantry support. 

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22 minutes ago, Bozothenutter said:

How is a Leo 1 better than T-72/64?

Not political, just technical please.

A lot of fun was being made of russians mobilising old tanks, but isn't this the same?

All I read about is UA not using them in direct battle but infantry support. 

It's not really better. It is probably about equal to early T-72 and T64 models.  It is better than T62 and T54/55. Later T72B3 and T80/90 are superior to the Leopard 1a5s, not so much because of equipment but because of armour. The 1a5 is restricted on it's penetration capability because it is using the British L7 105mm Cannon (the same gun on the first m1 tanks which was then replaced by the now standard 120).

I think the making fun of Russia is because they supposedly have 10,000 tanks in reserve, thousands of T-72 and T-80s and years to prepare (they knew they were gonna invade)...but we are seeing them delve ever further backwards to find workable tanks. Ukraine on the other hand is having to make do with whatever they are given.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 7 months later...

Depends how much russian propaganda you soak up. After 705 days of war, there's a lot of that out there. 

 

Leopard 2A6s were used during the initial summer offensive, which suffered large losses. Of the 21 donated 2A6s, 12 were confirmed casualties (4 were destroyed, 5 damaged and abandoned, 3 damaged and recovered for repair). 2 damaged 2A6s were repaired in Lithuania and were returned last month. Lithuania has faced delays in repairs due to difficulty in attaining replacement parts.

 

Leopard 2A4s are far more numerous, 40ish supplied initially from Canada, Finland, Norway, Poland, and Spain. Since then, an additional 14 were announced from the Netherlands and Denmark. They have 7 confirmed destroyed, 3 damaged and abandoned, as well as 5 damaged but not abandoned. 2 2A4s have been noted as being repaired in Poland. 

 

The 10 Strv122's from Sweden suffered the worst, 1 destroyed and 5 damaged and/or abandoned.

 

Of the Leopard 1A5s, 1 has been damaged of an estimated 30 delivered as of November. They're expected to received over 170 1A5s.  

 

While these tanks are by no means a game changing weapon system for Ukraine (especially being supplied in such numbers), what is important is the crew survivability of these tanks, something much better than the previous equipment they've been operating. There's a video from October of a Strv122 taking a direct ATGM, the blowout panels working properly, and then the crew gets out and survives. While these tanks are getting damaged and destroyed (as everything does in war), their crews are surviving. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, JTninja said:

Depends how much russian propaganda you soak up. After 705 days of war, there's a lot of that out there. 

 

Leopard 2A6s were used during the initial summer offensive, which suffered large losses. Of the 21 donated 2A6s, 12 were confirmed casualties (4 were destroyed, 5 damaged and abandoned, 3 damaged and recovered for repair). 2 damaged 2A6s were repaired in Lithuania and were returned last month. Lithuania has faced delays in repairs due to difficulty in attaining replacement parts.

 

Leopard 2A4s are far more numerous, 40ish supplied initially from Canada, Finland, Norway, Poland, and Spain. Since then, an additional 14 were announced from the Netherlands and Denmark. They have 7 confirmed destroyed, 3 damaged and abandoned, as well as 5 damaged but not abandoned. 2 2A4s have been noted as being repaired in Poland. 

 

The 10 Strv122's from Sweden suffered the worst, 1 destroyed and 5 damaged and/or abandoned.

 

Of the Leopard 1A5s, 1 has been damaged of an estimated 30 delivered as of November. They're expected to received over 170 1A5s.  

 

While these tanks are by no means a game changing weapon system for Ukraine (especially being supplied in such numbers), what is important is the crew survivability of these tanks, something much better than the previous equipment they've been operating. There's a video from October of a Strv122 taking a direct ATGM, the blowout panels working properly, and then the crew gets out and survives. While these tanks are getting damaged and destroyed (as everything does in war), their crews are surviving. 

 

 

I thought only four Leopards came from Canada. I could be wrong, although I'm here I have no way to really know and I'm not in the army circle. Hopefully it is more, we have  a bunch. I have an unbuilt Tamiya1A4 but I doubt those would be used, unless it could be converted easily into a 1A5. I was going to use it to practice armour weathering and building with. How would you model that cam netting in the photos? Armour isn't my thing but would like to give it a go.

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Initially 4 Leopard 2A4s from Canada, but then an additional 4 were announced and donated after the 1st anniversary of the war. All 8 were delivered by mid April '23. 

 

I've never done netting myself, but a quick search on youtube has a few good guides for making it yourself. Additionally, there is aftermarket stuff you can use. Here's one thread featured on this forum

 

 

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