HMS Norfolk camo 1941?

[TallBlondJohn]

Vague plans to partner my widely inaccurate Airfix Suffolk with a correct Norfolk for the Denmark Straits- but what were the colours? The only decent Admiralty pattern photos are 1943 and just the starboard. But I don't think she was just Home Fleet Grey - an image on WW2 cruisers seems to show a splinter pattern on the superstructure and funnels (maybe to make her look like a C, D or E class). Are there any sources?

 

Thanks

 

John

[Rich75]

No expert I'm afraid but this may be of interest until some more info comes up

https://www.shipcamouflage.com/3_1.htm

 

[Troy Smith]

23 hours ago, TallBlondJohn said:

Are there any sources?

Various members, @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies @iang @foeth @dickrd are people I would ask.

 

this is worth reading through

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/collections/royal-navy

note

"With our extensive primary source research, Sovereign Hobbies offers the most accurate Royal Navy model paints in the world.

We realise we have our work cut out given that so many people are familiar with the erroneous colour palettes published by other authors who did not use the original Admiralty documentation, but it is work which we believe needs to be done.

Our research papers available here summarise our findings, but perhaps more importantly list the unimpeachable primary source references we have used in separating facts from assumptions on this subject. All references are available in the public domain (although to access them without paying for copy services you will need to visit the archives in person). Nothing in our research is anything that you, yourself, cannot read in full."

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/colour-schemes-references-colourcoats-research

 

The links posted by @Rich75  maybe an example, listing 507B medium grey, which IIRC was an assumption that 507A was homefleet dark grey, 507C was a light grey for foreign stations, and 507B was a mix of the two, when  it seems it was a matt version of 507A... 

 

There are various pdf in the 2nd link with all the research, but hopefully you will get a more precise answer from some more knowledgeable members than me! 

HTH

 

[Rich75]

Sovereign hobbies is my primary go to as well

[TallBlondJohn]

First place I looked TBH, but nothing on Norfolk - I'm pretty sure she wasn't just Home Fleet grey. Due to her involvement in the hunt for the Bismark I thought there would be more research on her than there seems to be - but I guess if the sources aren't there it is what it is.

 

A shelf of 1941 ships will be rather dull though, especially compared to 1943. At least my 1941 Suffolk is resplendent in her Airfix specified 1930s China station scheme!

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, TallBlondJohn said:

First place I looked TBH, but nothing on Norfolk - I'm pretty sure she wasn't just Home Fleet grey. Due to her involvement in the hunt for the Bismark I thought there would be more research on her than there seems to be - but I guess if the sources aren't there it is what it is.

well, the actual naval scheme folks have not been on since I posted,  so you might get a better answer later if they see their notifications.

[michaele]

TallBlondJohn:

 

Check here at the 5:20 mark:

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060007001 

 

And here:

 

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6188&start=340

 

HTH!

 

Mike E.

Edited March 30, 2023 by michaele

[dickrd]

@TallBlondJohn Everything I have says that Norfolk's port side in May 1941 was as seen in the WW2 Cruisers "probably 1941" photo (it is) and on the starboard side as seen in the IWM film of her on return from the Bismarck action that @michaele has provided a link to. In other words the more complictated hull patterning of 1940 to be seen at Michael's second link had been painted out and the whole hull was one dark colour other than a small, lighter, triangular panel at the bow to create a more steeply angled false bow, and with the light & dark splinter pattern on the bridge and funnels that you have noted. I am unaware of any source to tell us for sure what the colours were but the obvious candidates are dark grey (507A) & light grey (507C). It is obviously a 'ships staff' scheme not an early Leamington one that would have used the then new MS&B camouflage colours. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by dickrd

[Francis Macnaughton]

"British Heavy Cruisers 1939-45" by Angus Konstam (Osprey NVG190)  shows a starboard side view  of Norfolk from the Bismarck period with virtually all of the hull and upperworks aft of A 8" turret in what would probably be 507A apart from the centre and forward funnels and some of the bridge while A turet and the bow are in 507C.  No source is mentioned to  indicate where this came from.