The Pro's and Cons of buying a Border models 1/32 Lancaster

[One 48]

Seriously considering one and decided to do my own Yes/No list

Pro: It actually made it into production and is available. Con: Its very very expensive.

Pro: Its amazingly accurate, well reliably reviewed and Tamiya like hi-fidelity.   Con: Cant think of something to negate that here ... Bonus points

Switching to Cons.

Con: I generally prefer to stick to 1/48 for an Aircraft scale   Pro: Do make exceptions for the best in 1/32 Aircraft scale.

Con: Its much more expensive than HK's 1/32 Lancs.  Pro: Its probably not going to be around forever and may gain in value even if I don't build it ... like 99% of Wingnut Wing kits too Oh, and is arguably much more accurate than 1/32 HK Lancaster's.

Con: Its massive, where would I display it?  Pro: To Hell with the Devil, worry about that later because we only live once. < -- Or is that a Con too?

To put things in perspective, recently bought Border's Lancaster nose kit and stand model and that is a very very good real life model taster too, have made a start on it and its awesome, Hannants masks are back in stock again for both version BTW ... but WOW its really made me want a full sized one.

What to do, what to do?

[Mark Harmsworth]

Half way through your post I was going to suggest one of the nose kits (I have the HK one - not yet built) but having got to the end I think you've probably answered your own question:

1 hour ago, One 48 said:

but WOW its really made me want a full sized one

all the best

Mark

 

PS but it is quite a pile of money . . . . and where would you put it !!  😉

[Mike]

Cons: You'll be £600+_ down

Pros: You'll have a highly detailed 1:32 Lancaster

 

it's easy

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, One 48 said:

Pro: To Hell with the Devil, worry about that later because we only live once. < -- Or is that a Con too?

Best ask the better half if you have one. If you don't you may have a short life expectancy. 

[One 48]

Continuing the Pro Con theme for this kit (and its just a bit of fun) I could probably buy. every other example of Tamiya's WW2 1/32 kits I don't own already and still have change!

[SafetyDad]

Dont' forget the uncertainty around the transparencies - quality of moulding and their packaging 

 

SD (who also had planned for a WW Lancaster, but has settled on a nose as more affordable/practical)

[bentwaters81tfw]

2 hours ago, One 48 said:

Con: Its massive, where would I display it? 

Stick it on a pole in the garden, run some aerial wires and you will have a rotary clothes line. Sorted, and her indoors will be impressed.

[One 48]

1 hour ago, SafetyDad said:

Dont' forget the uncertainty around the transparencies - quality of moulding and their packaging 

 

 

SD (who also had planned for a WW Lancaster, but has settled on a nose as more affordable/practical)

Is it really uncertainty of the kits transparencies SafteyDad or just unsubstantiated rumours? Perhaps its time to nip this one in the bud?

I own the Border Lanc kit Nose just now and first thing I looked at was the glazing, all of it, its fine to my eyes, also in the nose kit was a sort of explanation sheet about the potential problem from the company about what some people *might* be seeing?

Perhaps there has been some remedial work on the kits transparencies?, but more likely I think the fuss might have been down to more fussy modellers who have not seen the parts first hand? I don't know for sure?

But kit manufacturers have folded for less rumours than this.

I'm just glad someone was brave enough to take on the old Wingnut Wings project and bring it to fruition.

Safety Dad, your canopy turret and glazing parts will be the exact same as the bigger kit ones, do you see any glazing problems with your Nose Kit? I honestly have no problems with mine.

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by One 48

[One 48]

Sorry folks, going off on a little tangent here now because of a comment about large scale model kit glazing especially .. for nearly every fantastically built and especially weathered award winning kit and shows and featured kit, don't they all have perfect clear canopy glass? if you look at real weathered aircraft and especially a warbird coming home form a fight or a raid, none of them have especially crystal clear canopy's after a long flight and with muck and weather that accumulates up there  .. I'm not suggesting there should be a pure scale glazing standard, but hinting we should as modellers look more at kit canopy distortion that would obviously require higher moulding costs for thinner and more fragile canopy's and subsequently higher kit costs and so on too.

I know we al like to look outside in for clarity to see inside the fruits of our work detail wise.

Out of coincidence, reading a good book just now on the Spitfire early days, many pilots complained the early bulbous sliding canopy's gave distortion, much like some folk say fish in a bowl can see? Obviously this problem was overcome because such canopy's are popular now ... F-16 ETC.

All I'm saying at this juncture and I'm sad it was bought up in an otherwise innocent jocular feel good thread, is, there is nothing wrong with Border models glazing I can see, at lest in the nose kit IMHO.

[Graham Boak]

They are however polished clear before any flight.  Any model not displaying other signs of very recent use, such as damage, leaks and stains, would certainly be inappropriate with murky windows.

[IanHx]

6 hours ago, One 48 said:

 ... but WOW its really made me want a full sized one.

 

 

Should the BBMF be concerned ?   

[One 48]

8 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

They are however polished clear before any flight.  Any model not displaying other signs of very recent use, such as damage, leaks and stains, would certainly be inappropriate with murky windows.

I do hear what you say mate, and its my fault for steering this topic towards rocky shores perhaps? I hope not. What I was thinking of was window staining on public transport buse's, Trains and even Aeroplanes that dont get washed enough between flights ... some stunning builds have superbly weathered skin surfaces, even the canopy framings, but the glazing has to be ultra crystal clear, it wasn't always like that.

Speaking for myself and my own Border Lancaster nose kit, well it does not contain all the transparencies of the full kit, but what I see in the nose kit is perfectly fine and I've looked at them in all sorts of lighting and backgrounds behind them ... they are fine, honestly to me. If there are imperfections in current release kits, then I hand on heart cant see them, talking Nose kit only here, obviously

However there must have been a fuss because the nose kit does include a sort of explanatory sheet about this, its written by someone who's first language is not English, but makes good points ... for me and after seeing my nose kit ... and if I'm flush again, really would consider buying the full kit with no concerns whatsoever over the kits glazing ... does anybody have any pics of the kits bad glazing examples please? Really am curious to see them.

I honestly think its a storm in a teacup.


 

Edited March 22, 2023 by One 48

[SafetyDad]

 

15 hours ago, One 48 said:

Is it really uncertainty of the kits transparencies SafteyDad or just unsubstantiated rumours? Perhaps its time to nip this one in the bud?

I own the Border Lanc kit Nose just now and first thing I looked at was the glazing, all of it, its fine to my eyes, also in the nose kit was a sort of explanation sheet about the potential problem from the company about what some people *might* be seeing?

Perhaps there has been some remedial work on the kits transparencies?, but more likely I think the fuss might have been down to more fussy modellers who have not seen the parts first hand? I don't know for sure?

But kit manufacturers have folded for less rumours than this.

I'm just glad someone was brave enough to take on the old Wingnut Wings project and bring it to fruition.

Safety Dad, your canopy turret and glazing parts will be the exact same as the bigger kit ones, do you see any glazing problems with your Nose Kit? I honestly have no problems with mine.

 

Ahem. I'm a little surprised at the tone of your reply to me. My comments (plus the emoji) were intended as light-hearted, or as you say, 'jocular'. 

 

You asked for pictures - here they are.

 

For the nose kit it's entirely possible that the nose kit packaging is different, and therefore the transparencies aren't subject to the same possibility of damage.

 

Which I'm sure you will agree would be a good thing.

 

And I liked your original pros and cons approach to the subject of purchasing the kit. What a shame the thread has gone in a different direction.

 

SD

[Graham Boak]

4 hours ago, One 48 said:

I do hear what you say mate, and its my fault for steering this topic towards rocky shores perhaps? I hope not. What I was thinking of was window staining on public transport buse's, Trains and even Aeroplanes that dont get washed enough between flights ... some stunning builds have superbly weathered skin surfaces, even the canopy framings, but the glazing has to be ultra crystal clear, it wasn't always like that.
 

Except immediately post mission, then yes it was always like that.  A clear view was vital for the fighter pilots, bomber gunners and navigators (and hence the rest of the crew), and probably for all other pilots too.  Part of the ground crew duties after every flight was to clean and polish the transparencies.  In the outside world away from instant death, yes, such cleanliness has a lower priority, and it is not just "old men's moans" but quite genuine that standards of cleanliness in public transport have declined in comparatively recent decades.   But it wasn't always like that, and certainly wasn't in the WW2 air forces.  (Or nowadays.)  Yes the fuselage and wings could get rain-stained - although even then fighters could have these cleaned and polished to aid performance - and the belly covered in oil (especially but not exclusively) with Merlins, but not the transparencies.

 

Sorry for those who consider this a diversion and unnecessary, but such a claim otherwise is false and needs correcting before it settles into myth like so many others.

[Jonners]

£600? How much???

That's definitely a 'con'! (No pun intended.) Not necessarily because I couldn't afford it, but because I definitely would choose not to afford that huge sum for a plastic kit, no matter how detailed and accurate it might be. Other opinions are, of course, available...!

Jon

[NAVY870]

Just buy it ya pussy 😎

[Giorgio N]

I would add to the Pros: you will not spend time rueing about not buying it when in a month or a year you'll wish you had bought it because you can't find any.

Cons: should you find one in a year at half price you'll be forced to think that you could have avoided buying one at full price... but really I don't know how realistic are the chances of a kit like this being sold at half price in a year time.

 

Really, sounds like you're already halfway down the path to buying one... if you feel that £600 is money you're happy to spend on a single kit, then I'd probably just dive in and buy it! And if tomorrow you feel you should't have bought it, you can still resell it and you'll likely recover most of your money or even make a profit).

 

On the matter of the transparencies however I feel that in a £600 kit every part should be of the highest possible quality ! I don't care if the manufacturer encountered technical difficulties, any difficulty should have been sorted before putting a £600 kit on the market.

[One 48]

4 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 

On the matter of the transparencies however I feel that in a £600 kit every part should be of the highest possible quality ! I don't care if the manufacturer encountered technical difficulties, any difficulty should have been sorted before putting a £600 kit on the market.

Good post as usual from you Giorgio, thanks ... however one of the main reasons I posted what I did was ... I can see no fault in the Border Lancs transparencies in the clear parts included in the Nose kit ... and I've looked and looked, put my readers on and looked again, they are fine to me ... unless the problem is with the larger kits rear turret and mid upper turret transparencies ??

Or unless the problem is fixed now? All I was really trying to do was nip some rumours in the bud or put some ownership perspective on it, can someone show me pics of whats wrong with the transparencies please?

[One 48]

As regards buying the full kit, we shall see, in the mean time I have my Lanc Border nose kit to build first and the mask set from Hannants arrived today, so no stopping me there really ... but quite honestly even from the Nose kit alone I am in awe of the quality already and I'm used to the quality of modern Tamiya WW2 Aircraft too.  I think once I get stuck into the Border nose kit I'll start to feel I should have pushed the boat out for the full kit while its available.

Yep the full kit is a lot of cash at £600, but I don't mind spending a bit if it is of value to ME, some spend more on golf clubs ETC and they are not wrong in doing that, there should be no guilt associated with a high quality scale model kit like this if you can afford it ... LOL I recently spent almost £900 (import tax included) on an a triple MFD system for flight sim and solely for DCS FA/18 use, one of my good friends has called me a looney for doing that, but he has no problem spending more on an exhaust for his Sports Bike! we all have different and very valid idea's of what represents good value for money, also we are talking a high quality scale model construction kit of a classic British bomber on a Brit named scale model site ... this is well on topic IMHO ... sorry if I offended you Safety Dad BTW.

The only really issue here for me is space to display, and even there we have options, hang it from the ceiling (least desirable) or hang it from the wall, can be quickly detached occasionally for fond inspection of my work and to dust it off, or plonked temporarily on the coffee table for visitors to hopefully admire

[JohnT]

How often are you going to live?  If just the once then buy the Lanc if you like it. Life has enough sorrows and a little joy is not to be missed. I’d say save and buy. 

[One 48]

On 22/03/2023 at 08:39, SafetyDad said:

 

 

Ahem. I'm a little surprised at the tone of your reply to me. My comments (plus the emoji) were intended as light-hearted, or as you say, 'jocular'. 

 

You asked for pictures - here they are.

 

For the nose kit it's entirely possible that the nose kit packaging is different, and therefore the transparencies aren't subject to the same possibility of damage.

 

Which I'm sure you will agree would be a good thing.

 

And I liked your original pros and cons approach to the subject of purchasing the kit. What a shame the thread has gone in a different direction.

 

SD

 

SD ... My Border Lanc canopy is nothing like that, the thread you quote is from pre production days, times move on, please keep up. and also the quote you pulled is only half way through a very long thread where your point is most likely addressed? ... if not I'm addressing it here mate, from the evidence of a final release Border nose kit I have every confidence the full kit releases glazing will be especially good now.

I really am finger on the trigger here now purchasing the full kit, hovering hovering hovering, we only live once, am sure its not going to be a continual mass produced release, so even if I click buy just now it will at the very lest retain its value and may indeed increase its value ... and for those who doubt me about these investments, think Wing Nut Wings ,,, I once sold a WnW Gotha Bomber for 3 x times its value on Ebay.

 

Hovering on that buy button now ....

[One 48]

For sale at £620 here and in stock just now, dealt with these people before and trust them, ach so undecided ...

https://www.emodels.co.uk/border-models-1-32-avro-lancaster-b-mark-i-iii-ex-wingnut-wings-010.html

[One 48]

And bought from there ... very very excited, most expensive kit I've purchased in my life, easily and have every confidence in it its kits clear transparencies too

[FG2Si]

I was at Heritagecon today. This is the annual model show held at the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum where VR-A is. Most of the vendors present had at least two of the Border Models Lanc kits on sale. The best price I found was $800 CAD which is about $330-450 less than what I had seen them go for in shops. 

 

Having the kit already, my vote is that if you can afford to get one it's very much worth it. 

 

Carl

[Keeff]

£620 is alot to pay for the kit (he says while contemplating how to justify £267 on a 1/16 AFV), but looking at the pictures on e-modes, it looks worth it judging by the detail ...... and you've considered the pro's and cons. 

 

I suppose the question for me would be if I purchased it, where would I put it and can I give the time it would deserve to do it justice?  That kind of kit needs to be displayed and not just sat on a shelf (just my opinion!) 

 

 

Keith 😁