On Heather's Workbench - Strike Hard, Strike Sure: RAF Bomber Command 1940

[junglierating]

Heather wonder if you can help me out does the valom hampden come with two types of prop?Only I have the old airfix item but need some new props...I have yet to find any suitable after market...yet.

It was the first model I made getting back to the hobby and its been languishing on a shelf collecting dust .

Meanwhile BZ as usual

 

[Heather Kay]

14 minutes ago, junglierating said:

Heather wonder if you can help me out does the valom hampden come with two types of prop?

The one I’ve built only came with a single pair of props. As to aftermarket, I’m not sure. I think the props were fairly typical for aircraft fitted with Mercury, Pegasus and similar engines. Perhaps that might help searching?

[AdrianMF]

I hope Mr H is feeling a bit better today. Terrific scribing going on.

 

Presumably the ailerons will be Frize ones, and so will be narrower on the top surface than the bottom (this doc, page 4, figure 6.7, puts it in a nutshell) - that adds a bit of complication to any aileron rebuilding you might feel inclined to do.

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Heather Kay]

12 minutes ago, AdrianMF said:

I hope Mr H is feeling a bit better today.

This morning was rough, but he’s perked up enough to polish off a large evening meal. We both hope this is the start of an improvement overall. Thanks for asking. 
 

I will need to read technical information more thoroughly, but I’m not entirely sure the Stirling had Frise-type surfaces. There’s a few good photos around that show the upper and lower leading edges appear the same. I was tending towards simply modifying the kit parts without further thought. I’ll revise that and check the specs.

 

 

[junglierating]

1 hour ago, Heather Kay said:

The one I’ve built only came with a single pair of props. As to aftermarket, I’m not sure. I think the props were fairly typical for aircraft fitted with Mercury, Pegasus and similar engines. Perhaps that might help searching?

Hmm good idea thanks Heather

[Heather Kay]

More on the aileron question. Here’s a handy MkIII being finished off at, I think, the Short factory in Northern Ireland.

 

 

From this site. Lots of other useful photos for other bombers there.

 

I'm not an expert, but those don’t look like Frise ailerons to me. Also, good illustration of how the flaps operate. I’ve seen that block of stencilling on the wing root in other photos: I can’t find anything that tells me what it reads.

 

[davidl]

Heather

You wrote

" but those don’t look like Frise ailerons to me. Also, good illustration of how the flaps operate. I’ve seen that block of stencilling on the wing root in other photos: I can’t find anything that tells me what it reads. "

The stenciling almost certainly reads to the effect " Do not tread here "  This is only a bit of thin metal covering the Fowler flaps

I think you are right, they are not Frise ailerons

If you have Megas Tsonos' series of articles in Air Modeller on his superb 1/48 scale scratch built Stirling you will find a wealth of detail information

Your photo shows an interesting  blotchy appearance to the upper surface camouflage ... Is this evidence of recent rain ?

If not ... Can anyone say if this blotchy appearance is typical of factory applied camo ?

Regards

David

Edited May 22, 2023 by davidl
additional info

[jackroadkill]

28 minutes ago, Heather Kay said:

From the looks of that it seems that we modellers spend far too much time and effort getting a tidy paint job done, doesn't it?

[Heather Kay]

10 minutes ago, davidl said:

Can anyone say if this blotchy appearance is typical of factory applied camo ?

I am fairly certain the plane is in the final stages of building. The unpainted engine cowlings, for example, give that impression. My guess is the fuselage and wings have been painted on the production line, and what we see is repairs with primer or rough top coats which presumably will be corrected before handing the plane over.

 

That said, Stirling wings in service were generally absolutely filthy - top and bottom!

[davidl]

Thanks Heather

It makes sense that the finish would be finessed/ corrected before being accepted by  (or acceptable to) the RAF at handover/ delivery

 

Confirming that the words stenciled in white on the wing root fairing over the Folwer flaps reads

 

DO NOT

TREAD

HERE

 

REGARDS

DAVID

 

 

 

[AdrianMF]

17 hours ago, Heather Kay said:

I’m not entirely sure the Stirling had Frise-type ailerons

Me neither! If the plans show the same aileron width top and bottom then you're good to go.

 

[edit] having looked at your two wing photos on top of the plans, it looks like the ailerons are the same size top and bottom on the plan, so please disregard my ramblings!
 

I threw it out there because I have had to correct it on a couple of builds of older kits - I think the FROG Whitley was the most egregious example.

 

Regards,

Adrian

 

Glad to hear about Mr H too...

[Pete in Lincs]

Milliput. It will harden in the box over time. Warm it up on a radiator or under a mug of tea. It will be much easier to mix.

Use spit to smooth it out. Much better than just water. 

The Stirling is looking better. Hope Mr H is the same.

[Brandy]

19 hours ago, davidl said:

DO NOT

TREAD

HERE

 

REGARDS

DAVID

Nice of them to stencil the "regards David" bit. It adds a little more personality.

 

Ian

[Mac-endo]

I am an old Japanese modeler. I'm not good at English, so please forgive the strange expressions.

I also made a Stirling in '09.

At that time, compared to the WARPAINT drawing, the outside engine position of the kit was outside.

It required a very difficult surgical operation, so I gave up on the correction.

 

Anyone know which one is correct?

[Heather Kay]

21 minutes ago, Mac-endo said:

At that time, compared to the WARPAINT drawing, the outside engine position of the kit was outside.

I noticed that as well. There are one or two other odd things about the drawing when I compare it against good photos. I am going to quietly ignore the outer engines being a bit too far out. There are limits to upgrading 60 year old kits!

 

Welcome to Britmodeller, Mac-endo. Don’t worry about language. Your post was understandable and clear - way better than my Japanese! 

[Mac-endo]

Thanks for your feedback, Heather.

I agree with your opinion.

Of course, drawings are not always correct.

That's why I always try to check the correctness with photos.

But I don't have the latest software to calculate exact dimensions from photos.

Therefore, it is not always possible to judge accurately.

 

If anyone solves this question, please let me know the result.

[PeterB]

Hi Heather,

 

Only just found this thread- very interesting.

 

The Hampden came out well - I did another of the old Airfix kits a few years back having heard mixed reports of the Valom one. I modified the wing tip profile as it was not quite right and had a few problems with the rear gun positions which are rather basic, but it does not look too bad. I also did another Airfix Stirling - this time a Mk I as my original build was a Mk III. I did have a reference showing, amongst other things, how the various windows changed over time, but could not lay my hands on it at the time - I might have another look - it would be easier if I could remember what the thing was called. I do have one called "The Stirling File" which is quite useful - it gives details of all Stirlings built and their fates (at least in theory) if that would be of any interest/use to you.

 

With regards to the ventral turret my sources vary - one states a very few early ones hade a FN19 ventral turret whilst another says FN24, but my book on gun turrets covers neither so no pictures. However I have read that due to the not unusual tendency of the turret to lower itself during flight with all the incumbent drag problems, it was soon replaced with waist/beam guns in the Mk I, prior to the introduction of the mid upper turret.

 

Pete

Edited May 24, 2023 by PeterB

[Heather Kay]

59 minutes ago, PeterB said:

Only just found this thread- very interesting.

Thanks Peter. Perhaps I’m being a bit perverse in my ambition to try to build a really early MkI Srs1. It’ll be an unusual sight, I hope! 
 

I think I have a handle on the various windows. As far as I can see, all I need to do is add a couple of new apertures to the rear fuselage, and work out how to revise the incorrect shape. The ventral turret, as you say, was quickly dropped on the production line, but as I’m trying to build one of the first ten or twenty planes off the line I ought to include it. Currently it seems no more than a circular patch just aft of the bomb bay, though some images seem to show some kind of small plate or fairing at the rear hanging in the airflow. I can’t make it out and there are no clear exterior images I’ve turned up yet.

 

This research is all part of the fun.

[Heather Kay]

Today saw some sticking action going on. About bloomin' time, I hear you mutter.

 

To carry the requisite bomb load to meet specification, the Stirling had three bomb cells in each wing, between the fuselage and inner engine nacelles. The parts are in the kit to show the cells open or closed. I’m going for bomb bays buttoned up, so I don’t need to do a ton of fiddly detailing in the nether regions. Pictured are the cell doors. These sit on ledges at each end of the cells, and as they will need tidying to make things flush with the wing surface I thought it might help to add a brace strip halfway to support the middle. You can see an outbreak of rivets even got this far - on a kit this size, it must have been a punishment detail for the mould maker concerned!

 

 

I think this is self-explanatory. I failed to photograph the results of fitting the second doors, but let’s just say the result is smaller than the width of the cells they’re suppose to cover. I’ve had to insert a fine strip of styrene to fill things, and there’ll be a load of filler to make it all neat and tidy. You win some, you lose some.

 

 

All the pegs! The wing halves have been joined, trying to align details as best as possible. The trailing edges will be quite thick, and I’m not even going to worry about it. I think I may need to work out how to fit the modern Hercules cowlings to the ancient Hercules nacelles, but I’m sure it’ll work out okay in the end. I’ve also glued some black styrene sheet (because it’s what I had in the scrap box that suited the task at hand) to begin the process of plugging the mid-upper gaping chasm.

 

 

All the control surfaces and the fin parts were joined together. The toy hinges and slots are currently being plugged with more scrap styrene. 
 

Should be ready for paint this time tomorrow. As if!

[Samuraiwarrior]

Who's been a busy bee! 

That looks like real progress has been made. 

Nice work Heather. 

Thanks for sharing 

Kevin 

[Brandy]

Always fun to correct these oldies, although I don't think I really want to get involved in the Sterling. 

 

Stranger things have happened though.....

 

Ian

[Pete Robin]

Meanwhile.......Heather's laundry is currently blowing over three counties!

 

Hope ya don't run outa pegs soon Heather. Might need a trip to Arkwrights.

 

Regards

Pete

[Heather Kay]

16 hours ago, Brandy said:

Always fun to correct these oldies, although I don't think I really want to get involved in the Sterling.

I would, as I think I probably mentioned back near the start of this megathread, have preferred the Italeri kit. When I realised I wanted a Stirling, though, the MkI was like rocking horse poop. I couldn’t find one for love nor money. I also read about the rather exaggerated panel lines and the efforts folk went to in order to minimise them. If I was going to have to do a lot of remedial work on an expensive modern kit - and, don’t forget, I hadn’t learned the version I really needed didn’t have the mid-upper turret and would have involved more surgery - it made more sense to spend a lesser amount on an older kit. So far, not counting time and research materials, I’ve spent around half the cost of the Italian plastic. Arguably, I’m having more fun, too, though that is debatable!

 

I carried on with some work last night, chiefly tidying up the hinge plugs on the control surfaces. I also added some scrap styrene fillets to reshape the inner ends of the ailerons, and applied a couple of layers of filler to the wing bomb cells, First job this morning, then, was to see how it all looked in daylight.

 

 

Even with my centre tabs, the doors sagged. Oh well. One more thin smear of filler, I think, followed by a good sanding and some very gentle scribing.

 

 

The remedial work on the ailerons (and rudder and elevators) sadly meant the fine raised tape lines were lost. They weren’t exactly prominent on the real thing, so I’m not going to replace or scribe new ones. Perhaps a spot of preshading, or fine pencil lines after painting might happen. What am I saying? Of course it won’t happen!

 

 

The tail feathers. I am going to mark up and drill holes for brass wire pegs to fix the control surfaces. I realise the leading edges of the various moving parts are probably more rounded than in reality, down to the toy-like moving parts. There are inevitable compromises with this kit bash and, like the thick trailing edges, I’m going to not worry about them.

 

 

You can just make out I’ve scratched in locations for new fuselage windows. These will be drilled and filed out. You may wonder why I’ve matched the shape to the incorrect kit windows. Well, I ran a needle round the window from the opposite fuselage half laid over, if you see what I mean. The current plan to correct all the window shapes involves UV-setting clear epoxy resin and suitably shaped paint masks. Waiting on the delivery of the resin right now.

 

Where the Italeri kit scores over the 1960s Airfix is internal detail. While there is a cockpit floor, instrument panel, navigator's station, and something along the bomb bay, it is very basic. I’ve bought in the Eduard PE upgrade set, designed for the Italeri model, plus the Falcon vac form glazing, and I’ve located a copy of the Italeri instructions. Between them, I hope to be able to scratch together a reasonable representation of the cockpit area. Channelling @AdrianMF and his preternatural skills at making something from nothing is also on the cards!

 

Then there's grafting the modern Airfix engines on to the wings. In a brief investigation yesterday, I worked out the Lancaster B.MkII was fitted with different propellers to the Stirling, presumably to match later marks of the Bristol Hercules engines. So, while the new engines and cowlings should usable, plus the streamlined prop fairings, I will need to use the old Stirling propellers. I’ll also need to scratch four early straight pipe exhausts. Making a master and resin copies would be the right way, but I don’t have the skills or equipment for that. Making a 3D print would also be sensible, but again skills and equipment lacking. Brass tube and files will be the way forward, I think.
 

It’s turning into a right old hodge-podge of a build, and I'm having quite a bit of fun! I hope those following the saga are having fun, too.

[Zephyr91]

17 minutes ago, Heather Kay said:

It’s turning into a right old hodge-podge of a build, and I'm having quite a bit of fun! I hope those following the saga are having fun, too.

Indubitably* Heather.  Please keep going.  Loving it.

 

Rob

 

* - had to look that up  🤣

[Brandy]

Absolutely! As mentioned previously, I just love upgrading these oldies.

More popcorn and beer on the way!

 

Ian