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All your Il-2 questions...


righidan

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I'm wondering if the single seater and straight wing 2 seater had essentially the same cockpit and instrument panel details? 

The reason I ask is as I was considering getting the Eduard fe1145 etch set ( I'm wanting it for a Zvezda straight wing 2 seater) which claims to be for the Zvezda il2 but doesn't say which aircraft, 1 or 2 seater. 

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5 hours ago, Pig of the Week said:

I'm wondering if the single seater and straight wing 2 seater had essentially the same cockpit and instrument panel details? 

The reason I ask is as I was considering getting the Eduard fe1145 etch set ( I'm wanting it for a Zvezda straight wing 2 seater) which claims to be for the Zvezda il2 but doesn't say which aircraft, 1 or 2 seater. 

 

Yes, the pilot's cockpit was essentially unchanged throughout production. I know there were some minor changes, but nothing major. I don't know if the Eduard instrument panel is pre-coloured, but the colour should be a light grey.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

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1 hour ago, Learstang said:

 

Yes, the pilot's cockpit was essentially unchanged throughout production. I know there were some minor changes, but nothing major. I don't know if the Eduard instrument panel is pre-coloured, but the colour should be a light grey.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

Many thanks for the confirmation, the Eduard piece is I believe coloured grey, I'll verify that of course and will likely get one for the kit. 

I do have your excellent book btw which I've just acquired, and will be consulting it of course. I have the Zvezda 2 seater and a AM single seater to work on ongoing. 

As regards the single seater I'd be interested to know details of the modifications to the guns etc to render it correctly with the metal fuselage as it stands in the kit...? 

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Thank you for buying the book! I'm attempting that conversion myself with the Academy kit. I want to build it as a semi-derelict Barbarossa 'victim' with the spinner missing. Your best bet for exactly how the guns differed (20-mm inboard, 7.62-mm outboard) would be to consult Massimo's site. I wonder if he's still having trouble with it. If you can't access the site, I believe there is a three-view profile of the metal-fuselaged single-seater in my book.* This should help with the placement of the guns and the different panels.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

 

*I just checked. There is such a profile.

Edited by Learstang
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I'll give the book a straight full read thru first, then pick at the details I need ! 

Oddly enough I was thinking of maybe doing the single seater as a derelict / wreck too, though I've got a couple of other alternative GPW candidates, a Lagg 3 and a Yak 1, that might end up as the above "casualty". 

I can access Massimo's site BTW and have it bookmarked, seems to be working at the moment. 

Edited by Pig of the Week
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21 minutes ago, Pig of the Week said:

I'll give the book a straight full read thru first, then pick at the details I need ! 

Oddly enough I was thinking of maybe doing the single seater as a derelict / wreck too, though I've got a couple of other alternative GPW candidates, a Lagg 3 and a Yak 1, that might end up as the above "casualty". 

I can access Massimo's site BTW and have it bookmarked, seems to be working at the moment. 

 

Massimo's site is the best English-language site for all GPW aircraft. I'm sure he goes into more detail on the very early Il-2s with the metal rear fuselages than I do, even in my book. Best of luck on your Il-2, and please post pictures!

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

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It's been a while since I've seen that - thank you for posting! That has some nice footage of the Il-2s. You can see the huge flash from those 23-mm cannons.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

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Eduard's instrument panel color reminds me of early war RLM02 color if anything....at least mine is. Far from the XF-22 color Tamiya would have you paint the interior surfaces. While the VVS site was still up, I remember seeing A-14 as an interior color being called out. If my memory serves me correctly, the FS reference stated was 26187...not exactly light, unless A-14 wasn't used in Il-2M3's

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24 minutes ago, DonM2.0 said:

Eduard's instrument panel color reminds me of early war RLM02 color if anything....at least mine is. Far from the XF-22 color Tamiya would have you paint the interior surfaces. While the VVS site was still up, I remember seeing A-14 as an interior color being called out. If my memory serves me correctly, the FS reference stated was 26187...not exactly light, unless A-14 wasn't used in Il-2M3's

 

A-14 Steel Grey is similar to the American Neutral Gray [sic] to my eyes. It is a dead-grey (no green nor blue) medium colour. However, it appears from photographs that the instrument panel was painted in a lighter grey. I've used Model Master Light Gray for it, and it looks good to my eyes. Too bad Model Master is pretty much dead, as least as far as enamels.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

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44 minutes ago, DonM2.0 said:

Eduard's instrument panel color reminds me of early war RLM02 color if anything....at least mine is. Far from the XF-22 color Tamiya would have you paint the interior surfaces. While the VVS site was still up, I remember seeing A-14 as an interior color being called out. If my memory serves me correctly, the FS reference stated was 26187...not exactly light, unless A-14 wasn't used in Il-2M3's

4 points

 

1.Eduard are notorious for getting their colour photo etch wrong for cockpit colours, and then denying there is a problem.  They do at least have an IL-2 in the Czech Republic though...  

 

2.XF-22 is Tamiya's call out for RLM 02, it not very good for that, and most of the Tamiya paint range isn't really matched to anything, though there are greys in the range that likely would do a better job.

RLM02 is often misrepresented, it's actually an olive grey. 

 

3.  The VVS site?  As in Hobbyvista VVS?  Hmm, not the best resource as while there was some good info, there was plenty that has since been discredited.

 

4. Any FS595 given as a match is the best in the limited range of colors in an FS 595 deck. 

This is a very useful guide on the use of these references, in particular the Fs595 comments

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/blogs/sovereign-about-us-research-and-development/references-how-to-tell-the-good-from-the-bad

"The widespread ownership of FS595 in particular has resulted in many enthusiastic people to compare artifacts which predate the 1956-onwards FS595 with a collection of colour chips which other people own. There's nothing wrong with this, but the qualifications often get lost as the references are repeated. Furthermore, compared to the NCS1950 colour system above, FS595 has 950 chips in total, a full 1,000 fewer than NCS1950. Worse, FS595 is split into three sections; FS1xxxx caters for gloss finish chips, FS2xxxx caters for satin finish whilst FS3xxxx caters for matt finish chips. Of the modest 950 chips in total in it, many colours are duplicated or triplicated even across the different finishes. This results in an extremely limited number of discreet colours to compare things to, such that the closest match in FS595 may not actually be very close at all! !

 

Often cited as widely available in the USA,  but unless it refers to an actual FS595 color,  it's the closest available.   Problem is that they are taken as an "match" rather than "closest too" 

In the case of VVS colors it's of use,  at present @Massimo Tessitori  site  has exceeded the monthly bandwidth allowance, so I can't check what is suggested there.

FS595 is quoted, but often a pair of colors with some qualification, but only really of use if you actually have a FS595 deck to examine in daylight.

 

 

@Learstang  may have the sites A-14 FS595 "match" noted, but as he stated it is a neutral gray.    I'd also trust him on what the lighter grey a quick search has shown up.

 

You may already know the above, but you are a new member and may not and perhaps will be of some help. 

We have some incredibly knowledgeable members here, and you can get answers literally from people who write the books,  but it can be quite an information overload to what may seem to be a simple question... hence my sig line about answering questions you didn't know to ask.....

 

HTH

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I also found the Il-2 pilots handbook manual, but translated into English (which is handy) a most interesting read with great period illustrations, as below... memorise this lot and you could probably just about start one up and fly it ! 

Hopefully this link works.. 

https://www.allworldwars.com/IL-2-Illustrated-Flight-Manual.html

 

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Edited by Pig of the Week
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On 2/25/2024 at 7:04 PM, Troy Smith said:

4 points

 

1.Eduard are notorious for getting their colour photo etch wrong for cockpit colours, and then denying there is a problem.  They do at least have an IL-2 in the Czech Republic though...  

 

2.XF-22 is Tamiya's call out for RLM 02, it not very good for that, and most of the Tamiya paint range isn't really matched to anything, though there are greys in the range that likely would do a better job.

RLM02 is often misrepresented, it's actually an olive grey. 

 

3.  The VVS site?  As in Hobbyvista VVS?  Hmm, not the best resource as while there was some good info, there was plenty that has since been discredited.

 

4. Any FS595 given as a match is the best in the limited range of colors in an FS 595 deck. 

This is a very useful guide on the use of these references, in particular the Fs595 comments

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/blogs/sovereign-about-us-research-and-development/references-how-to-tell-the-good-from-the-bad

"The widespread ownership of FS595 in particular has resulted in many enthusiastic people to compare artifacts which predate the 1956-onwards FS595 with a collection of colour chips which other people own. There's nothing wrong with this, but the qualifications often get lost as the references are repeated. Furthermore, compared to the NCS1950 colour system above, FS595 has 950 chips in total, a full 1,000 fewer than NCS1950. Worse, FS595 is split into three sections; FS1xxxx caters for gloss finish chips, FS2xxxx caters for satin finish whilst FS3xxxx caters for matt finish chips. Of the modest 950 chips in total in it, many colours are duplicated or triplicated even across the different finishes. This results in an extremely limited number of discreet colours to compare things to, such that the closest match in FS595 may not actually be very close at all! !

 

Often cited as widely available in the USA,  but unless it refers to an actual FS595 color,  it's the closest available.   Problem is that they are taken as an "match" rather than "closest too" 

In the case of VVS colors it's of use,  at present @Massimo Tessitori  site  has exceeded the monthly bandwidth allowance, so I can't check what is suggested there.

FS595 is quoted, but often a pair of colors with some qualification, but only really of use if you actually have a FS595 deck to examine in daylight.

 

 

@Learstang  may have the sites A-14 FS595 "match" noted, but as he stated it is a neutral gray.    I'd also trust him on what the lighter grey a quick search has shown up.

 

You may already know the above, but you are a new member and may not and perhaps will be of some help. 

We have some incredibly knowledgeable members here, and you can get answers literally from people who write the books,  but it can be quite an information overload to what may seem to be a simple question... hence my sig line about answering questions you didn't know to ask.....

 

HTH

Troy, thank you for that...I have lurked on here for quite some time and have noticed there are some very knowledgeable people on this site, yes. Neutral grey it is then

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7 hours ago, Pig of the Week said:

For what it's worth, here's the colored etch I just received, I'd say the grey is on the item perhaps half a shade darker than the pic appears (crappy camera on this tablet thing sorry ) 

 

 

I'd say that grey looks usable.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

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2 hours ago, Learstang said:

 

I'd say that grey looks usable.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

Yes, the thing in hand certainly looks OK to me, compared to photos of the real thing... I may get one for the AM single seater too, speaking of which I've ordered one of the replacement prop and spinner sets for it, the kit part looking rather dodgy! 

 

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2 minutes ago, Pig of the Week said:

Yes, the thing in hand certainly looks OK to me, compared to photos of the real thing... I may get one for the AM single seater too, speaking of which I've ordered one of the replacement prop and spinner sets for it, the kit part looking rather dodgy! 

 

 

Good - the Vector part is much better. Strangely enough, even though it's not as good as some other Il-2 kits, the Toko Il-2s have a very good spinner and propellers.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason 

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1 minute ago, Learstang said:

 

Good - the Vector part is much better. Strangely enough, even though it's not as good as some other Il-2 kits, the Toko Il-2s have a very good spinner and propellers.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason 

I suppose you could "Frankenstein" an ll-2 out of all the decent bits of various kits 😁

I seem to recall someone, probably on another forum, who was less than impressed with the Tamiya kit (for some reason) was going to get one purely for the prop/spinner and a few other bits ! 

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I think I know who're you're talking about, and that chap was wrong - the Tamiya Il-2, both in 1/72nd and 1/48th scales are excellent representations of a late-war Il-2.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

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1 minute ago, Learstang said:

I think I know who're you're talking about, and that chap was wrong - the Tamiya Il-2, both in 1/72nd and 1/48th scales are excellent representations of a late-war Il-2.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

Indeed, I can't imagine that the Tamiya one is lacking in any way, every other opinion I've seen, including your good self, rates it as a very good representation, I believe it's an "arrow" type wing configuration isn't it ? 

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Yes, it is, and in my humble opinion the best arrow in 1/72nd scale. I've built it, and it's very accurate and a good build. The 1/48th scale version is the best arrow in that scale also, at least until, someday, Zvezda come out with one (they've already come out with the single-seater, and straight-winged two-seater in that scale).

 

Best Regards,

 

Jasone

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