Deffo Dad Dat's a Defiant....Done!

[Zephyr91]

....well I hope it will at the finish!  😁

 

Welcome to part 2 of my repatriation to the hobby. 

 

For background, the first instalment was here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235120976-rookie-errors-revisited-first-build-for-36-years-with-apologies-to-spitfire-fans-finished/page/3/

 

I learned a lot and really appreciated the generous advice and encouragement.  Major lessons I think were

1. I need to greatly improve my application of dark green over dark earth

2. Wheels are wheely ( ) difficult!  I had some major painting traumas in those previous builds

3. I was rather too zealous with the filing and my scribing skills are almost negligible so I need to guard any surrounding details if I need to do this again

 

But on the plus side

4. I got a lot of sanding sponge material of different grades that will last a lifetime!!

5. I really enjoyed fiddling   around with the internal details - even though they can't be seen in 72nd scale

6. I learned useful stuff like being able to scale printed plans to the correct size

7. Despite the attentions of the Domestic Accounts Department, I've managed to collect a few  more models for the stash (there was a sale on dear!  )  as well as some new paints and gadgets    (which of course are all essential  )

 

 

I know there are many threads for this rightly popular subject.  I hope you don't feel its a case of "Oh no! Not another one!".

 

Anyway, to business.  I decided that I needed to have a go at some things in prep for this build.  Looking at my illustrious predecessors with this model, I rather liked the idea of addressing the wing tip lights and improving upon the "silver paint" approach.  I also noted in the walk around thread (https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234999078-boulton-paul-defiant/ )  that the landing lights are very prominent.  The kit supplied transparencies look a bit un-refined, shall we say.  So could I do anything about them?

 

Whilst in the loft I came across what must be the only relic from my former modelling days.  I think it was by Revell in the 1960's and purports to be a Hurricane.  By modern standards  it can only be described, borrowing from Douglas Adams, as being almost entirely but not quite unlike a Hurricane.  So I had no compunction in attacking it with my newly acquired (actually I've had it a long time dear) razor saw. 

 

The wing tips seemed to work ok using transparent sprue.  And I was really pleased with the

landing light "dish".  This was made using a cheap n cheerful hole punch made from a handy wooden peg, drilling a hole of the right size, then using the drill bit non-business end to poke through the silver foil.  After a couple of tries, I found that the foil from wine bottles was the right combination of stiffness and maleability.   It has the advantage of being readily available ..... but I won't say how readily

The hard part was the clear covering over the front and I haven't solved that yet.  In the picture above is sticky tape.  Although it's the best I've tried I'm not quite sure it will actually stick in place.    I thought I'd come up with a brill idea of heating some spare acetate and when soft enough moulding it around the wing leading edge.  The shape wasn't bad.   It was close but I couldn't get it to adhere in a non-messy way in the right place!    Glue everywhere!    

So any hints or tips would be gratefully received.  

 

Until I find a solution I'll try the wing tip lights on the Defiant but not the landing lights upgrade.......

 

The other thing I did in preparation was thouroughly check all the parts and try and plan ahead to avoid "eventualities".   Learning from previous posts, I dry fitted a fair number of parts.  However, due to the very delicate state of some of the very tiny bits there were accidents.  I seem to have badly bent, but not yet fractured,  one of the undercarriage leg stays whilst still on the sprue!    

 

The other things that suffered were the machine gun barrels!!!  Impressive for this scale in plastic I thought, but so delicate.    But I had an answer!   I treated myself to some After Market items!!!    This is new for me apart from decals.   In the post I received some beautiful little brass replacements by Master 

 

 

They're so nice I can't bear to think of applying paint - especially with my ham-fisted approach. 

 

 

Anyway,  persistence points if you've got this far!    All constructive comments welcome.

 

Thanks for looking

 

Rob

[bigbadbadge]

Nice choice Rob, nice Barrels too.

For the landing light covers on the Hurri you could try sellotape,  some modellers on here use that.  

Chris

[2996 Victor]

+1 for the nice choice - gotta love the anachronistic Defiant!

 

For the Master gun barrels, you could try Carr's Metal Black - it doesn't coat the metal like paint so you won't lose details.

 

Looking forward to seeing this one coming together.

 

Cheers,

Mark 

[Dunny]

Rob,

 

Nice work on the lights - those details really do lift a build. Acetate is a good choice for the lens - you could even use your existing model to make a mould using the wing leading edge,

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[Zephyr91]

12 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

Nice choice Rob, nice Barrels too.

For the landing light covers on the Hurri you could try sellotape,  some modellers on here use that.  

Chris

Thanks Chris.  The almost-Hurricane mule in the pic above, has indeed got sellotape.  It certainly allows the visibility of the light.  But I would need to cut closer to the opening,  which will exacerbate the adhesion problem, and i felt it was a bit thick at the edges (bit like me! ).   I'll have another go at the mule and see if I can improve it.

 

cheers

[perdu]

Excellent pre planning Rob, a hint or two if I might.

 

(Incidentally I am about to take hints myself Carr's Metal Black, straight on to my shopping list)

 

Acetate makes very good transparent lamp covers if you use the wing leading edge.

 

Get it floppy over a heat source and drape it forcefully over the leading edge outside the actual lamp location.

The thickness of the acetate means that it will need an allowance made for the shape, by using the thinner taper from the outboard section you will find the shape's exterior will fill the hole nicely.

 

Glue for clear parts, use Formula 560 cockpit glue.

 

It dries clear and can be thinned with water and encouraged to fill any gaps with a small paint brush.

[Zephyr91]

10 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

gotta love the anachronistic Defiant!

 

For the Master gun barrels, you could try Carr's Metal Black

Thanks Mark.  I almost used the same description but couldn't speel it!     Good idea about the Carr's approach.  Will read up about it - can just hear the questions from the Domestic Authorities "What?  More noxious chemicals?" 

 

cheers

 

Rob

[Zephyr91]

10 hours ago, Dunny said:

Acetate is a good choice for the lens

Thanks Roger.  Seems like i should have another go.  And not the only one to recommend it .....

 

4 minutes ago, perdu said:

Acetate makes very good transparent lamp covers if you use the wing leading edge.

Thanks @perdu.   I'll definitely have another go and see if it works on the Hurricane impersonator.  And I've not heard of the cockpit glue but will have a look at that too.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[2996 Victor]

31 minutes ago, Zephyr91 said:

"What?  More noxious chemicals?"

Yeah, I can imagine.....I'm very lucky that I can hide myself away in my own little den. Years ago I was subject to interrogation by my ex over a nasty smell in the kitchen - I'd been painting an exhaust manifold with VHT paint and used the oven to cure it.....

 

Anyway, Carr's Metal Black for brass (there's also one for steel/whitemetal). My bottle must be 30 years old but I used some recently for the bicycle chain landing gear on my Arma Wildcat.

 

Cheers,

Mark

[alt-92]

Must admit I'm not a great fan of adhesive tape, personally. Experience may differ, but over time the glue can discolour. 
Instead, I tend to go for thin acetate or similar thin plastic sheet you can find in some foodstuff wrappings, or the stuff from window envelopes. 
Once cleaned, it can be used in the same way Perdu says. 

[Zephyr91]

3 hours ago, alt-92 said:

thin acetate or similar thin plastic sheet you can find in some foodstuff wrappings, or the stuff from window envelopes. 

Thanks and noted.  It seems I'll have to do a bit of experimentation ........ I may be some time

 

Rob

[Zephyr91]

Some time later ..........

 

Well that was educational - even if only for students of arcane language .   

 

It's amazing to me how the properties of the acetate were altered after application of heat.  It becomes SO springy!   Having successfully curved it around the leading edge as decribed by @perdu and others, I found that once I'd cut a piece to size it was intent on escaping my clutches.  It was like Zebedee* on speed!   Honestly I lost 2 pieces to the carpet monster/messy table before finally grappling one onto position.

 

Anyway, the mule is earning it's feed as shown by the following pic

 

 

The acetate version is the one on the right of the picture.  If I had some of the magic Formula 560 it might come out better, but I'm not sure.    The sellotape version on the left is also messy but is actually clearer - largely because it's thinner I think. 

 

So.  On balance I don't have enough patience to keep practicing for long enough to get the acetate method working properly, and  therefore will go with the selloptape method.   Wow!  A Decision.  Whatever is the world coming to .......

 

But I also have a backup, which is to try and drill into the back of the kit pieces of clear plastic and see if I can insert a lens.  It won't have much finesse but will at least stand a chance of a neat finish if I can't make the sellotape version work ( I nearly said "stick", but that would be just too daft ). 

 

Just to hopefully round off the prep phase here, I'd seen in  another build wip that the wing trailing edges might be a bit thick (I have so many things in common .......).  Having demonstrated my cavalier filing skills on the Spitfires () I eagerly took the opportunity to have a go at the thinning on the inside surfaces before joing top and bottom halves together.   Before I started I measured the thickness of the TE when  dry fitting the parts together at 1.3mm which converts to a full scale of approximately 3.5 inches.  

 

Too much indeed.    I think others have discussed the merits of the method of manufacture which has led to this.  Pity as it's generally a finely moulded kit.  

 

 

This is by way of showing I'm actually doing something on the Defiant (as opposed to merely waffling about it!!!).  This is "in progress" and I will do a little more, but you can see here the thickness of the aileron which is wholly integral to the lower wing piece.   I'm just going to have to live with this as I don't have the skills to restore the surface detail if I was to improve things here.

Ho hum

 

Thanks for looking

 

Rob

 

* - https://tenor.com/en-GB/view/zebedee-magic-roundabout-springy-gif-21545274

 

[perdu]

Acetate needs practice but isnt usually as awkward to use as that

 

It must be drooped over the target area whilst it is still loose and floppy That bit is an absolute, still very hot and let it cool in place

 

Look just did this to illustrate

 

Piece of odd acetate, found on my untidy bench

 

heated over that feeble little tea light and dropped over a screw thread for example

 

 

I gave it a little push to close the edges and took it off to illustrate how easy it was

 

Taken away it displayed the screw threads.

 

It took me longer to find a stub of tea light with a piece of burnable wick than it took to do the minidemo

 

I have used sellotape as a  transparent piece

 

Such as on this Hind but it was hell avoiding damaging it in use

 

It does cover almost invisibly but masking tape pulls it off...

 

[Galligraphics]

And in my experience Sellotape does discolour over time. Quite a long time, granted, but when you're looking back at a model in 20 years time (and wondering how the h*ll your eyesight was that good back then) and the transparent bits have gone yellow, you'll wish you'd used something different.

[RJP]

One thing to watch out for is the tape's adhesive drying out and letting go. 

 

I can't speak to brands but I seem to recall 3M Scotch brand on my desk at the time.  It looked fine in the short term, a few years maybe.  After that it seemed to lose interest.

[Zephyr91]

Thanks @perdu @Galligraphics and @RJP for the helpful comments.    I did use a tea light and can corroborate the issue with the wick !  🕯️

 

I also managed to get a decent shape from the leading edge of the outer wing.   My problem lay more in the cutting to size and handling - basic aptitude for which I'm afraid i may be beyond help .  I'll have a think about it ......

 

cheers

 

Rob

[perdu]

Practice is what you need.

Cut it over far enough to set the size alongside the edge then use tape to hold it while you set the cut sides out.

[Zephyr91]

Thanks @perdu I'll have another go.

 

Meanwhile I've made a start on the internals .......  thought I should actually do something on the Defiant

 

 

Some base colours then mucking things up with my preferred water-colour washes.  Easily corrected if wrong     Usually takes a try or 2.    Some details still to pick out on the side panels as well as seat belts and bits and bobs that i can manage.  

 

I used the IP decal as I couldn't feasibly improve on it at the moment.  However, I have tried to add a representation of a compass onto the bottom edge.  There is a little shelf provided but no other detail.

 

I've also been looking at various photos and notice that in most cases when the aircraft are "at readiness" they seem to have cockpit canopy open along with turrent doors open and guns pointing up and stbd.  Whilst there is an option for the cockpit to be posed open there isn't for the turret glazing.    Hmmm.  Thinks ....... 

 

I'd better go to bed before a bad/mad idea takes hold.

 

Thanks for looking

 

Rob

[Zephyr91]

Having slept on things a bit, I had another go at the acetate and got something ok on the mule.  So will try this approach.  Thanks @perdu for persisting with the coaching.   Just awaiting delivery of the recommended glue.

 

Meanwhile, the thickness of the aileron trailing edges was bugging me.   So I decided to sacrifice some of the detail on the underside (it's going to be sitting on it's wheels) and got it much thinner - still overscale but a lot better than it started. 

 

 

Difficult to appreciate, but it looks a lot better to my eye.    And since the photo was taken I've also sorted the gaps in the inboard trailing edge. 

 

You might also see that I've almost finished tinkering with "the office".   I aim for a representation rather than a replica, but one of the prominent things in photos is the handbrake  😜  thing I assume to be the seat height adjustment lever, so that's now included.  I'm also rather pleased with the look of the scuffing around pilot's heel area in front of the rudder pedals - small things but I'm enjoying these bits.

 

Oh.  I forgot to mention.  I really shouldn't imbibe port and stilton before sleep!!      After unsettling visions     ................. I woke up convinced I could cut the back off the turret glazing and pose it open.  

 

Good griffon!  What was i thinking?? 

 

Before I came to my senses we got here .....

 

 

Over ambitious or what?  It was those brass bits and the new razor saw what done it mister!  

 

But it's done.  Not a great photo, but there have been "representative" bits added to the inside of the turret to enhance the look - allegedly  .     This is all dry fitted to make sure it does all go together.  Alignment seems good so far  - just wait til I remember to put the dashboard in!!  That'll wipe the smile ....

 

 

Thanks for looking

 

cheers

 

Rob

[Fritag]

Office(s) look(s) good, Rob.  And another enjoyable thread to read.  What’s not to like 

[Zephyr91]

56 minutes ago, Fritag said:

Office(s) look(s) good, Rob.  And another enjoyable thread to read.  What’s not to like 

Thankyou sir.  You are too kind in your comments.  Especially considering the 21st C 3-D CAD and printing masterclass you are conducting .........

 

cheers

 

Rob

[Zephyr91]

Well, that was an un-anticipated break!.   Apologies if you've been on tenterhooks waiting for an update - says he with an over-inflated sense of self-importance

 

I do my modelling on the main kitchen/dining table.  It had to be cleared over the Mother's Day weekend for the temporary return of daughters to the fold, and was actually used for it's intended purpose.  Humph. 🙄

 

When I eventually got access to the "bench", I got rather bogged down in trying to do the, by now called wretched, landing light clear covers.  I could just not get it right, despite @perdu's detailed coaching.  It was becoming     so I decided to retreat from this approach on this model and resort to sellotape;  with the aim of returning at some unpredictable time in the future to upgrade - once i'd spent a lot more effort abusing the mule to refine techniques.    I can mould the material to shape - it's the cutting to size that defeats me for some reason.   I was improving but the discard pile was getting a bit alpine in height, and I was getting frustrated.  So moved on. 

 

I went on to the much easier bit of doing the glazing on the turret .   Oh dear.  Feel free to make up your own story here.   Gradually getting there.  Then I did some other bits and started putting things together cos i wanted to see an aeroplane*.   THEN I remembered I hadn't taken any photos .........

 

 

The fuselage went together really easily.  I'd taken a lot of care to dry fit evething beforehand and that paid off.  Only minor fettling needed to clean up the seams.  On my previous builds I had a problem with filling and sanding and removing lots of surface detail, so was a bit trepidatious here.  But it turned out not too bad.  I used a correcting fluid pen to do the main seams which worked well for me.  It looks a bit grubby because i used an acrylic paint that dried quickly as a "witness" coating to see if I needed more sanding.   Of course, because I use enamels for my main painting I had to remove it - I've had trouble with enamel on acrylic before and don't want a repeat learning experience thanks very much

 

The wings have joined with the fuselage amazingly well, I think.  Just a couple of little gaps underneath require attention.  I'm debating best filler for these as they are too awkward for the correction fluid pen.  I'd have to buy talc and more CA if I was to try that often recommended approach, but I have just taken delivery of some Mr Surfacer (in 3 different grades) so might use this with a paint brush.      I'm still very much in learning mode       , so thoughts welcome here. 

 

Another couple of things.  Firstly you may notice a couple of spots of filler on the upper wing surface.  When i was bending floppy acetate over the wing leading edge, I used a rather aggresive clip/grip as an extra pair of hands and didn't notice the damage until too late.   Oaf!      

 

The second thing was that the tailplanes wanted to adopt a positive dihedral angle.  The only contemporary aicraft I can think of with obvious tail dihedral is the wonderful Beaufighter.  This was not right, so i needed to do something.   The fit appeared good and I didn't want to mess that up by sanding and bodging, so i applied the liquid poly then used masking tape to hold the tips down until set.  You can see that in the pic.   I've now removed the tape and that seems to have worked.

 

So, apart from the wretched (no, be positive) wonderful leading edge lights I think we're back to enjoyable mode.  It's beginning to look a bit more Defiant-like methinks.

 

Thanks for looking

 

Cheers

 

Rob

 

* - One of my dad's favourite ancedotes was that when I was 5yrs of age I could spell aeroplane but couldn't tell the difference (in my elementary reading book) between cat, mat and sat.  😁   Ha!  Look at my speeling now!  

[bigbadbadge]

Crikey, great update Rob, good to see this progressing well. Nice job fella.

Chris

[Zephyr91]

This project seems to get bogged down very easily.  Not too much progress over the weekend due to obligations elesewhere.

 

Slight digression by way of explanation : other musically talented members of the family required my "roadie and taxi" services to get them to the concert they were playing in on Sunday evening, whilst on Saturday they were rehearsing so needed feeding and watering 😝.    All rather obstructive to "bench time".   This was the reason ..

 

  

 

Great concert concluding with an encore of the Imperial March from Star Wars conducted using a Light Saber!!

(Good job it wasn't real otherwise the stand she was on would have been in bits!)

 

Apologies just felt the need to share that.

 

To business.  Another reason for slow progress was my learning experience concerning thinners!  🙄   I'd been preparing the underside of the Defiant for its first coat of Sky.  It was a bit dusty and through sanding I'd managed to degrade some of the panel lines, which needed a bit of gentle scouring out thus causing more bits etc.   After removal, clearly there had been a lot of handling and the now dust-free surface looked a bit grubby. 

 

So I decided to clean it up with a quick wipe of something.   Being too lazy to get off my posterior and get a splash of washing up liquid&water I grabbed the nearest enamel thinners and put a slight amount on a corner of paper towel and used that!  Well, it got the grubbiness off but the surface of the plastic started to react!!   In a moment of panic I'd thought I'd accidently used some liquid poly

 

Thankfully not.  But the surface was slightly altered including leaving some areas a bit whiter than they started and a bit rougher.     I've since found that a gentle use of very fine sanding sponge seems to get it smooth although the whiter patches are still visible - bring on the paint!!

 

Out of curiosity, on some spare sprue I tried the other solvents available to me to see if they did the same.  Results -

Colourcoats thinners - no effect.

White spirit - no effect other than a very slightly oily "feel"

IPA/Rubbing Alchohol - no effect.  Tried this on clear sprue; also with no apparently adverse effects.

Humbrol Enamel thinners - same effect as upon the wing !!!! 

 

Now this is not by any means an exhaustive test, but is this a well known phenomenon?   I'm a retired aerodynamicist, not a chemist so it's not really in my knowledge gift.  I've looked around but can't find too much.   Answers on a postcard please ...........  No rush, I already know what I won't be doing in future!! 

 

Meanwhile, to show a more positive experience, I've almost got as far as I can with the turret - just a few tweaks to go.

 

 

I think the angle of the photo suggests the guns are pointing off to the right, but it doesn't look like that IRL. 

 

Having cut the back off the kit transparency, the bits appeared too thick to use as the open parts of the doors.  But, to plagiarise Milligan, I have the ears of a bat, the eyes of a hawk and the brain of a newt and so came up with a solution. 

 

In my stash was a set of vac-form canopies which included parts for a Defiant.  The main canopy looked a bit over-large and not an improvement on the kit parts in my opinion.  So I was quite happy to butcher the accompanying turret glazing to provide me with the open doors.  Still got to tint the guns, but nearly there.

 

The main canopy I have started by painting the inside of the frames with interior green.  Unfortunately can't be seen very well due to the flash reflection but hopefully you get the gist.  Still awaiting the paint to harden before wielding the cocktail stick to tidy it up. 

 

Thanks for looking.

 

Stay safe - there seem to be a lot of coughs, colds and covid around

 

Rob

[2996 Victor]

Hi Rob,

 

the concert looks to have been really good - great selection of themes there!

 

What a PITA with the thinners. I'm not sure I've got anything to contribute, but if in future you're looking to strip paint off a model then Mr Thinner is effective and doesn't affect the plastic (not tried it on transparencies, though!). For dusting, when my Dad had his motor body shop, prior to painting he would always wipe the panel over with a Tak-Rag, literally a tacky cloth that doesn't leave any residue on the surface to be painted. This sort of thing - think I should get some myself!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark