rlucas Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) Hi all, In my searching for drawings of a couple of drawings I found out a draftsman named John Sizer drew up some plans of planes I would like to model. Does anybody know a source that might have these plans available? There used to be SAMS in the UK, but they don't exist anymore. Many thanks in advace, Edited February 23, 2023 by rlucas mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc2 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) Years ago I bought his drawing of the Hawker Fury (Biplane), I have to say I was not that impressed - too much balsa and not very scale. As far as I know he only published plans for flying scale models, in this case rubber power free flight. There are a couple of his FF Rubber plans available on Outerzone. There are better plans out there for most subjects - what you after? M. Edited February 23, 2023 by Malc2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 15 hours ago, Malc2 said: There are better plans out there for most subjects - what you after? M. That would have been my question, too, @rlucas. I adore good scale drawings, but have never come across John Sizer (which doesn't imply anything on the quality). But if he has done drawings for flying stuff, then they are in a corner of the market where I do not usually look. AvNews had a sizeable range of drawings for interwar subjects, many by Ian Stair. Alf Granger also had an emphasis on interwar types. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrik Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 On 2/23/2023 at 12:02 PM, rlucas said: Hi all, In my searching for drawings of a couple of drawings I found out a draftsman named John Sizer drew up some plans of planes I would like to model. Does anybody know a source that might have these plans available? There used to be SAMS in the UK, but they don't exist anymore. Many thanks in advace, If you name the types you're interested in, I will have a look in my collection. However, on the first sight, the name doesn't ring a bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 On 2/24/2023 at 10:59 PM, tempestfan said: AvNews had a sizeable range of drawings for interwar subjects, many by Ian Stair. As has been noted before, the big problem with Av News drawings is that they have been electronically reproduced so many times that they have been distorted in the process, to the point where they bear only a passing resemblance to what originally came from the draftsman. The classic that springs to mind is the Av News Sunderland drawing. It looks really nice at first blush (and I'm sure that it WAS very nice when it came off the drawing board), but on my copy the keel on the underside plan wanders around like a road up the side of a mountain! The rest of the drawing shows similar distortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlucas Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 Hi all, Many thanks for your replies! John Sizer did both; balsa flying model drawings but also failry large size scale drawings. Quality was slightly varied, the drawings you bought were large sized, like A2 paper size or so. The one I was most after: DH 37 Sylvia Blackburn Cubaroo De Havilland 11 Oxford Blackburn Bluebird and Bluebird IV Avro Aldershot There are ofcourse some Putnam drawings, but I am looking for more detail if possible; the DH 37 Putnam doesn't have ribs drawn in or so. Many thanks if anyone has something in the way of good drawing son these! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrik Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 16 hours ago, rlucas said: DH 37 Sylvia Blackburn Cubaroo De Havilland 11 Oxford Blackburn Bluebird and Bluebird IV Avro Aldershot Unfortunately, no type on your wishlist is in my collection and none appears to be published e.g. by Aviation News either. 16 hours ago, Admiral Puff said: As has been noted before, the big problem with Av News drawings is that they have been electronically reproduced so many times that they have been distorted in the process, to the point where they bear only a passing resemblance to what originally came from the draftsman. The classic that springs to mind is the Av News Sunderland drawing. It looks really nice at first blush (and I'm sure that it WAS very nice when it came off the drawing board), but on my copy the keel on the underside plan wanders around like a road up the side of a mountain! The rest of the drawing shows similar distortion. This is why I collected - over the years - paper originals of the plans on my wishlist. Some may be yellowed and quite fragile, but they are still useful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimK Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 I wish I knew of a source of John Sizer's drawings. He was an aircraft engineer and design draughtsman who lived in Lowestoft until his death in 2002. He produced more than 100 detailed drawings with dimensions and sometimes wing sections, mostly at 1/20 scale. His plans for flying models were much fewer. Both kinds used to be available through SAMS (I have the full list) but I've seen no sign of them since. I have copies of his drawings of the Nieuport London, Gloster Gannet, Gloster IV, a separate drawing of the Gloster IVa and IVb, and the Gloster VI. The London drawing is fairly basic but the Gloster ones look pretty good. For the record he was born in 1913 and apprenticed to Blackburn at Brough. By 1939 he was at Hamble working for Folland. He designed the systems for the Folland 43/37 up to the firewall and is quoted in Philip Jarrett's article on the type in the Nothing Ventured series (Aeroplane Monthly June 1991). This involved working between Hamble, Eastleigh, Cheltenham and Staverton and liaising with Gloster, where Henry Folland had been chief designer. He went to the USA for the Air Ministry after WW2, later joined Bristol and was on the Brabazon's first flight in 1949. Any more information would be very welcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc2 Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Hi Tim, That's really interesting, thanks for the input. Any chance you could post your list of his drawings? Malc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripod Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Alf Granger drew the Bluebird IV. They were published in Wingspan magazine, May 1992. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 1:00 AM, Patrik said: Unfortunately, no type on your wishlist is in my collection and none appears to be published e.g. by Aviation News either. This is why I collected - over the years - paper originals of the plans on my wishlist. Some may be yellowed and quite fragile, but they are still useful. Mine were gathered in the same way. The originals had gone through at least one (and probably more) electronic reproduction process (even if it was just photocopying) before they made it into print. There's no way to know how distorted they are without putting a straight-edge and square over them - and doing that might terrify you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Unless the copy was done by taking a picture, any distortion is likely to be unequal "stretching" of the document by the reproduction and/or printing process. This is easily checked by determining the scale consistency of major dimensions both horizontally and vertically. With respect to the multi-view drawing above, that is easily done even though the dimensions are not shown by comparing the overall length of the top and bottom views. They should be the same. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie22 Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Tailspin Turtle said: Unless the copy was done by taking a picture, any distortion is likely to be unequal "stretching" of the document by the reproduction and/or printing process. This is easily checked by determining the scale consistency of major dimensions both horizontally and vertically. With respect to the multi-view drawing above, that is easily done even though the dimensions are not shown by comparing the overall length of the top and bottom views. They should be the same. A minor caveat to that. Check what the dimension is actually quoting. It often depends on the A/C manufacturer or user. For tail draggers, for example, it can be tail up, (i.e. length projected on to the longitudinal axis), or tail down, (i.e. length projected on to the horizontal plane with the A/C on its wheels). Sometimes ancillary items such as pitot tubes are not included. I have also come across spans quoted which are the true span, (i.e. measured along the dihedral), and not the projected span on to the horizontal plane. Showing my age, but I remember the mantra that was drummed into me: "Never measure from a blueprint!" Peter M Edited March 1, 2023 by Magpie22 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 6 hours ago, Magpie22 said: A minor caveat to that. Check what the dimension is actually quoting. It often depends on the A/C manufacturer or user. For tail draggers, for example, it can be tail up, (i.e. length projected on to the longitudinal axis), or tail down, (i.e. length projected on to the horizontal plane with the A/C on its wheels). Sometimes ancillary items such as pitot tubes are not included. I have also come across spans quoted which are the true span, (i.e. measured along the dihedral), and not the projected span on to the horizontal plane. Showing my age, but I remember the mantra that was drummed into me: "Never measure from a blueprint!" Peter M Yes - more here on that: https://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2012/05/accurate-three-view-drawings.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 I have a few of John Sizer's drawings, including the Gloster IV. Haven't looked at them for a good while... Some of them are great, some less so, as mentioned above. The SARO Cloud for example, as sold by SAMS, consists of side and top elevations with a good interior layout but no front elevation. Far from useless but very frustrating! I also have a drawing of the DH 37 Sylvia, although I can't remember if it's by John Sizer or Roy Tassell. I'll dig them out of the archive and reply here in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc2 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 @rlucas and @TimK I have found the supplier who took over SAMS model business and the good news is they have the following (all?) John Sizer scale drawings available to purchase. The company is called The Vintage Model Company (VMC), they currently don't have the plans listed on their website but will send them out by request as they are still sorting through the stuff they have acquired. There are a lot more plans than I thought there would be! I have asked what the 'Avro Ty' is and am waiting for a reply. Website:- https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/ Contact:- [email protected] Here is their reply to my enquiry:- These are all paper plans and will need to be scanned digitally. If you let me know of any that interest you, I can get them scanned, printed and sent out to you. Our standard price is £9.00 + shipping for a printed plan but we could probably do you a deal if you need many plans. Gloster VI Schneider 1929-31 Westland ‘Lysander’ 1935 Parnall Pixie 1922 Austin Whippet 1919 Saunders Roe A-37 1939 Avro 562 Avis 1923 - 24 NDN-1 Firecracker Sopwith Camel 1917 Warwick W4 Hot Canary Avro Avian MK IVM Perry Beadle Flying Boat 1913 Saunders Roe SRA1 Flying Boat Avro 604 Antelope BF108 BY Taifun 1934 Blackburn L-1 Blue Bird 1924 Sopwith Triplane 1917 Simmonds Spartan 1928 Heston A-2 Paulhan-Tatan Aero Torpedo 1911 - 1912 Hawker Fury MK1 1929 Handley Page HP.38 (HP50) 1938 Hanriot HD1 1916 Sopwith Tabloid Schneider Trophy 1914 Desoutter MKII 1930 Sopwith Hawker Rainbow 1919 Heston A2/45 Saunders Roe A-27 London Saunders Roe A-17 Cutty Sark 1929 Blackburn Pellet N.1.B N.56 1918 - 24 Waco 10 1927 Heston Nuffield Napier 1938 - 40 Lake L4 Buccaneer Amphibian 1946 Macchi M33 1924 - 25 S E Saunders Beadle Schneider 1926 Percival Mew Gull E.2.H Avro 80 HP Scout 1914 Gloster Gladiator 1 1934 Comper Streak 1933 - 34 Curtiss R3C-2 Schneider 1925 Avro 643 MKII Cadet Bristol Burney X-3 1913 - 14 Parnall Imp 1928 Beardmore WB XXIV Wee Bee 1 1924 Avro 584 Avocett Parnall Panther 1917 - 18 Carter Type B Schneider 1930 Supermarine Spitfire 1940 Saunders Roe SR45 1948 - 52 Handley Page Harrow II B29/35 1936 Vickers Supermarine Sea Otter MK II Grumman F.4.F Wildcat 1942 Grumman F8F-2 Bearcat 1944 Saunders Roe S36 Lerwick 1936 - 38 S E Saunders - Vickers Valentia 1918 Vickers Supermarine Spitfire VA 1940 Travelaire 2000 1924 Lake L4 Buccaneer Amphibian 1946 Gloster IV A & B Schneider 1927 Saro SR53 Saro A19 Cloud 1930 Hawker Tempest MK VI 1945 Messerschmitt Bf109-G 1941 - 42 Sopwith Baby Seaplane Hawker Hart 1928 Avro Ty Aeronca 15 AC Sedan 1947 - 51 The Gnosspelius Gull 1923 Martin Baker MB5 1944 Sopwith Bat Boat Amphibian 1913 DeHavilland DH71 Tiger Moth 1927 Dornier Super-Wal 1927 - 34 British Aircraft Corporation BAC TSR2 1964 Westland Widgeon III 1926 - 27 Supermarine S6B Schnieder 1931 Macchi M67 Schneider 1929 DH53 Light Hummingbird 1923 Lockheed P38 J Lightening 1939 Short Bros Ltd Sunderland III 1941 Fairley FD2 1954 Hannover CLIII 1917 Miles Master III Westland Wagtail 1918 - 19 Cessna 337 Skymaster 1971 - 72 Saunders Roe A33 1934 - 38 Focke Wulf Ta 152 - C - 1944 Felixstowe F1 1915 Hawker Osprey 1930 Norman Thompson NT 2B 1916 DeHavilland 37 1922 - 32 Dornier Do 18D Flying Boat Westland Wyvern S.MK.4 Blackburn T.4 Cubaroo 1 Martinsyde Semiquaver 1919 S E Saunders Valkyrie 1927 Airco 11 Oxford 1918 Eastchurch P.V.8 Kitten 1917 Felixstowe F5 1918 Short Bros Ltd Solent North American P51D Mustang 1944 Short Bros Ltd S45 Seaford / Solent Short Bros 184 1915 - 18 Gee-Bee Model R1 1932 Super-Sportster ABC Robin 1929 Fokker D.VII Fighter 1918 North American X-15 1959 Hawker Horsley MK1 Fokker DR1 Triplane1917 Dunne D.10 Swept Wing 1912 Felixstowe F5 Flying Boat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimK Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Great discovery Malc. Many thanks and best wishes. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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