RDM2 Special Night - your suggestions for replicating.

[Stephen Allen]

My next Beaufighter build is going to be a very early Night Fighter Beaufighter in Special Night RDM2. For this early airframe I suspect the RDM2 would have been applied over a gray primer, or as a repaint from TLS, rather than the later practice of applying a coat of ordinary night then RDM2 - not sure on this and would appreciate views on when the practice of undercoating with standard night began. This will be a factor when it comes to wear on the RDM2 topcoat, as in, what finish it will be wearing back to as it flakes off, and how much of the underlying coat it takes with it when it goes.
 

 I am interested in your preferences for, and views, about replicating RDM2. At this stage I am agnostic about the type of paint, beyond a preference for enamels, but very interested in how to replicate the very matt, very sooty, very black appearance of RDM2. I can get to normal Night easily, using the Colourcoats enamel, but RDM2 doesn’t appear to have a dedicated colour in any range. Once I am happy with the basic approach to depicting RDM2 I will work my way onto how best to weather it.

 

Thoughts appreciated, as I am gathering my own thinking about how to go about it. Base paints, mixes, use of varnish top coats etc etc, I am interested in anything you have tried.

 

For those interested I will be backdating the Tamiya 1/48 kit - its easier to get to a very early Beaufighter 1F from there, than from the Revell kit.

 

Steve

[RJP]

It's years since I did one but I had some success (well, I thought so) by applying the Special Night after all else was done and decalled.  The reasoning being that everything else was painted using finishes that were less matt so the roundels and other markings tended to show up as comparatively glossy.  Vintage photographs bear this out if you know to look for it.

 

This meant the trick was to apply a dead matt black finish and no overcoat of any kind.  I also found that Testors flat black from the square glass bottles gave a very matt finish, no sheen at all.  There were few Testors colours I thought much of but the flat black was amazing. Oh, and I brushed it on neat, no thinner and no airbrush.

 

As I said, a long time ago.  I still see the stuff in shops but haven't been building much lately.  I hope they haven't changed the formula.

[Stephen Allen]

Thanks for this - its exactly the kind of thinking I am looking for. I am considering a similar approach, but perhaps painting the markings over the primer/previous camouflage, then masking as you did, and then doing the RDM2 top coat. I’ll look out for the Testors Black, though it might be hard to obtain in this country. What I plan to do is experiment with some different approaches on a practice piece - I usually use a plain white bathroom tile - then go with what looks best. This is certainly one paint job where the differences in sheen will be as important as anything else.

 

cheers

 

Steve

[rossm]

3 hours ago, RJP said:

It's years since I did one but I had some success (well, I thought so) by applying the Special Night after all else was done and decalled. 

I did the same sort of thing many years ago using Tamiya XF-1 Flat Black and airbrushing - https://www.hrmtech.com/sig/articles/Magna_BeauII_72_build.asp

 

I now need to do something similar for a nightfighter Hurricane so will watch with interest to see if there are more modern solutions to the problem.

 

[Stephen Allen]

That looks to my eye to be a very good rendition of an unweathered RDM2!

 

Steve

[tempestfan]

Revell 8 (enamel) in the old days used to be very matt, but I'm talking about the mid-90s here - it may have changed significantly. One thing I recall from some magazine article, probably even earlier, was the use of some Plaka matt black, which was supposed to give about the mattest finish possible - IIRC. As Plaka is not solvent-based, it may even be possible to mail order a bottle.

[FinnAndersen]

what about a matt varnish?

 

[Stephen Allen]

Thanks to both of your suggestions. I have seen the suggestion for Plaka poster paint in another thread here discussing RDM2. It sounds promising but durability during handling and weathering might be an issue. Revell matt black is certainly on the list, as is the possibility of a varnish coat - Revell matt enamel varnish from experience is very, very flat, so much so that I usually cut it with some gloss to achieve the  sort of ‘in service’ very slight sheen you often see, even with matt camouflaged aircraft.

 

I have also found some very useful youtube comparisons conducted by miniature/wargame painters on various blacks manufactured by hobby paint companies. All acrylic and in a couple of cases using the fairly exotic blacks that are now available, getting closer to the Vanta black end of the spectrum where almost no light is reflected at all. This would be overkill, even for RDM2!

 

In any case, there are quite a few paints I can try.

[Work In Progress]

16 minutes ago, Stephen Allen said:

durability during handling and weathering might be an issue.

This would of course be perfect scale representation.

[Stephen Allen]

Too true! Lots of reports of the stuff rubbing off on people’s hands. Not a paint to wear your immaculate white overalls near.😁

[Troy Smith]

11 hours ago, Stephen Allen said:

My next Beaufighter build is going to be a very early Night Fighter Beaufighter in Special Night RDM2. For this early airframe I suspect the RDM2 would have been applied over a gray primer, or as a repaint from TLS, rather than the later practice of applying a coat of ordinary night then RDM2 - not sure on this and would appreciate views on when the practice of undercoating with standard night began.

there is reference to that, here

 

and more in this

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Bristol-Beaufighter

 

There is also discussion on RDM2 in this

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Boulton-Paul-Defiant

and possibly in these, 

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/De-Havilland-Mosquito

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Bristol-Blenheim

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Douglas-Boston-Havoc

 

 

11 hours ago, Stephen Allen said:

This will be a factor when it comes to wear on the RDM2 topcoat, as in, what finish it will be wearing back to as it flakes off, and how much of the underlying coat it takes with it when it goes.

very little. It didn't stick well.

11 hours ago, Stephen Allen said:

 I am interested in your preferences for, and views, about replicating RDM2. At this stage I am agnostic about the type of paint, beyond a preference for enamels, but very interested in how to replicate the very matt, very sooty, very black appearance of RDM2. I can get to normal Night easily, using the Colourcoats enamel, but RDM2 doesn’t appear to have a dedicated colour in any range. Once I am happy with the basic approach to depicting RDM2 I will work my way onto how best to weather it.

The Plaka Black was suggested in the Scale Models BoB series of aircraft build in 1979/80.

 

If you want to make anything dead matt, add some talc.   While RDM2 was dead matt, I don't know if it was as black as Jet, the gloss black used late war and by the US on the P-61.  I think you would find RDM2 would like a very dark grey.  It was also noted that when incorrectly applied it could take a whitish bllom.

 

As for weathering and wear,  you might want to try pastel or pigments,   I have found that chalk pastels, sanded on very fine abrasive into a palette,  add lighter fuel and brush onto a matt surface.  The LF flashes off in seconds, and the pastel is hard to remove.

I've not had problems with chalk pastels coming off,  seems that making the LF/pastel slurry means the very fine dust stuck in the slight roughness of the matt finish.

 

Avoid an overall varnish coat, as you can keep variation in surface sheen,  it's not always picked up in photos, but is noticeable in person.  

 

whileI was typing I recalled that you might also want to look into this paint

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouache

 

"Gouache is designed to be opaque. Gouache has a considerable history, having been used for at least twelve centuries. It is used most consistently by commercial artists for posters, illustrations, comics, and other design work.

Gouache is similar to watercolor in that it can be re-wetted and dried to a matte finish, and the paint can become infused into its paper support. It is similar to acrylic or oil paints in that it is normally used in an opaque painting style and it can form a superficial layer. "

 

This may give you the dead matt you want, and be easy to weather off.

 

Hopefully will give you some ideas to play with, but I think you will need to get a mule and play about. 

 

HTH

[Graham Boak]

Dead matt yes, but also dead black, as it was based on (was?) the camera black used inside cameras to trap all light.  I don't think it would look grey when new, other than the general advice to tone down black when modelling to avoid unreal effects.  Photos do show a very dark effect with lighter areas showing wear.  The effect of blooming might change that...

 

Humbrol black used to provide very much the dead matt black effect, but I'm not sure how well that could be represented by the current recipe.  However a basic coat of Night (Colourcoats which is satin), then followed by dabbing on a very matt black paint, is what I would use.  Some talc might well create a good effect, but must be easy to overdo.  After all, you don't want the stuff to come off in your hands.  You could try getting carbon from a candle flame, but using something else as an intermediate rather than holding the model directly above - if you do don't say I recommended it!

[PatG]

Another vote for Colourcoats Night Bomber Black (ACRN 17) which as Graham says has a satin finish and would be a very good start point from which you can then use a very matt varnish and/or a very fine carbon dust or soot.

 

Pat.

[Stephen Allen]

I tend to agree with Graham on the ‘blackness’ of RDM2, I think any variation to this will be occurring at the wear and weathering stage, not in the base application.  Also, if I use a matt varnish, it will only be on the RDM2 to further reduce reflectivity and only if needed, and I will mask off everything else so that the reflectivity of other colours is maintained. Troy - thanks for the tip about pastels and lighter fluid - I will have a go at this while I am fiddling about with which black I use.

 

By my crude reckoning R2101 would have been within the serial range of the first eighty, indeed first fifty, production airframes, so it looks like a repaint into RDM2 from TLS occurred. I have the above Beaufighter publication. What I don’t know yet is whether this would have been preceded by an undercoat of ordinary Night. I will keep trawling to see if I can turn something up.

 

Steve

[Stephen Allen]

And this is how they should have refinished the aircraft at Squadron or MU level. I wonder how much of this was actually followed in the heat of the Blitz as simply waiting for the paint to dry, let alone rubbing it back, was time intensive.
 

The film clearly dates from a little later in the war, the Spit is a Mk IX I think. Its the first time I have seen how the freehand camouflage technique was followed when aircraft were refinished. Sure this has been seen plenty of times here before, but it is relevant to the discussion.

 

Looking at the way they worked with very toxic chemicals without precautions, how did any of our grandparents survive as long as they did?

 

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/F02334

[brewerjerry]

29 minutes ago, Stephen Allen said:

 

29 minutes ago, Stephen Allen said:

 .....

Looking at the way they worked with very toxic chemicals without precautions, how did any of our grandparents survive as long as they did?

 

 

Hi

    The old painters told me they used to drink a pint of  milk to line their inards

 

   if this was an 'old wives ' tale i don't know

 

  but as an apprentice in the 70's i used to hear lots of ww2 tales from the craftsmen ( of various trades ) i came across

  desert army & navy tales and RAF lines 

   great days at work

      cheers

         jerry

[Paul Lucas]

5 hours ago, brewerjerry said:

 

Hi

    The old painters told me they used to drink a pint of  milk to line their inards

 

   if this was an 'old wives ' tale i don't know

It's not an 'old wives tale'. Air Ministry Weekly Order 17/18 dated 27 March 1918 entitled 'Doping of Aeroplanes'  concludes with the statement that "...and it is important that dopers (especially women) should be allowed a sufficient break in the morning to allow of refreshment. Milk is especially valuable in this connection."

[Stephen Allen]

Paul

 

I can recall my Dad, who had a sideline in respraying cars during the fifties and sixties, saying the same. I’d appreciate your thoughts on the thorny subject of replicating RDM2, and the likelihood that a Squadron issued aircraft, such as R2101, would have gone the whole strip, prime and repaint route. I was wondering in particular whether the earlier experience and problems with using Special Night on bombers, would by late 1940 have led to some care being taken in application?

 

regards

 

Steve

[Paul Lucas]

Steve,

Without seeing the Form 78 for R2101 that might give a firm timeline for its Service history, I have no way of knowing where it was when the relevant policy decisions with regard to Night Fighter camouflage were taken.

 

It would appear that the decision to finish RAF Night Fighters in Special Night overall was taken on 30 October 1940. The minutes of this same meeting also mention arrangements being made to supply Beaufighters in primer with the final camouflage scheme being applied according to role at ASUs. For Fighter Command, the camouflage scheme was to be Special Night overall.

 

The earliest document that I have seen that mentions the use of Night as an undercoat for Special Night is a letter from the MAP to HQ 43 Group dated 29 November 1940. Entitled 'Colouring of Beaufighter, Defiant and DB7 Fighter Aircraft', the second paragraph states that 

"The Special Night finish for Fighter Command should be applied over a coat of Night dope, Stores ref 33B/195-197 or 33B/204-206 with the object of reducing to a minimum the quantity of Special Night dope required there being a shortage of supplies at the present time."

These 33B numbers are for Night Cellulose to DTD 308  and Synthetic to DTD 314 respectively.

 

I don't think that it would have been a realistic proposition to strip a Beaufighter of whatever paint finish it already had before repainting it in the Special Night scheme. I suppose it might have been the case that the airframe could have been rubbed down along the lines of the provisions of DTD TC No.23 of April 1940 that was intended to provide a smoother surface to an existing finish prior to the application of the new finish though.

 

With regard to replicating a Special Night finish on a model, that strikes me as being very much a matter of individual taste and artistic interpretation. I have no idea what paints you might have available locally, but I suggest that you start with finding a match for Night that you are happy with, and then find something that is more 'black' to represent Special Night.

 

Night was made from a combination of Carbon Black and Ultramarine Blue pigments but Special Night only contained Carbon Black.

 

There is currently a thread running in the 'Paint' section entitled 'RAF MAP and BSc Paints' in which Casey has provided matches for Night in several different brands of modelling paint and I suggest that you start there.

 

With regard as to how much care was taken with the application of the paint, I suspect that it would depend upon how much time was available to do the job, something that is probably unknowable today. However much care was taken, problems of one sort or another with Special Night occured throughout 1941.

 

 

[Stephen Allen]

Paul

 

Thank you very much for this considered response. You are right, at this remove and without specific documentation on the particular airframe, much will remain speculative, or at best, founded on assumptions about the practices and state of urgency in late 1940, early 1941. You have certainly enlightened me on the timeframes involved in the specific painting instructions related to the introduction of Special Night for Night Fighters.

 

I have been following Casey’s thread. For now, I am comfortable that if I apply a Night undercoat, I can use one of the available matching paints - for preference it will be the Colourcoats version as I have plenty of that on hand. It them comes down to finding an appropriate matt black for the depiction of RDM2/2A. 
 

cheers

 

Steve

[rob]

I know this probably sounds a bit OTT but back in the late '70's I was building Airfix's 72nd scale Mossie as an NFII but when I went to paint the exterior I found my Humbrol matt black was a thickened gloopy mess as I'd left the lid loose and I was out of thinners, so I looked for an alternative, the only thing I could find was some of my sisters nail polish remover! so I tipped some in and got to the correct consistency to brush paint It went on brilliant, but it dried to the most matt finish I'd ever seen, and looked perfect to my eyes, this technique might by worth experimenting with on some scrap plastic to see if it still works..

[Stephen Allen]

Thanks, but given I will be using other paints as a substrate, I don’t think acetone or similar is going to be a good idea in this case. 
 

cheers

 

Steve

[AndyL]

I thought you might like to see this for reference, in particular the variations on the finish. The rear fuselage has been repainted, as you can see where they have painted round the serial number and the stencil on the rudder. I'm pretty sure that this is one of the Defiants that were on strength with the Fighter Interception Unit at Ford, where they were used to develop Mk VI radar.

[Stephen Allen]

Thanks Andy

 

It’s a handy shot, as it shows the variation in reflection from the surface very well, along with a lot of chalking. There is clearly a circular section surrounding the fuselage roundel where it has been refinished, possibly in the standard night finish judging by the higher reflectivity.
 

One of the fascinating aspects of researching this has been viewing photographs, developed or filtered in different ways, which change the appearance of the Special Night paint job quite radically. I have just been looking at photos of the same aircraft, a Mk IIF, photographed on the same flight, with one shot showing the aircraft as quite light in tone with a lot of surface chalking and flaking evident, juxtaposed with another shot in which the aircraft looks very dark and matt indeed ( page 42, Wingleader Photo Archive No.10). There is a third shot from the same sequence in the old camouflage and markings publication.

 

It is possible that, given the very black finish, some photos were taken and/or developed in a way that sought to better depict the aircraft and its details, but only at the expense of substantially altering the viewer’s perception of the paint finish. This is the photographic equivalent of a modeller depicting black as a very dark grey. I am more and more thinking that in replicating this finish, an attempt at ‘scale black’, while it may add interest and conform to the establishment view, will move away from the essence of the Special Night finish. If I end up with a Black Hole on the shelf - so be it!

 

I have just finished up a test piece in which I have sprayed two different brands of Matt Black over a base of Colourcoats Night Bomber Black. I’ll post some photos tomorrow. Not by any means a scientific comparison, but it has proved interesting nonetheless.

 

Steve

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Something to bear in mind is that although the "camera black" was used because it absorbed more light than standard black paint, matt paint can still reflect more light than gloss, depending upon the angle of the light.  This is because the coarser surface has more angles to reflect light.  This is why glossier black finishes as in the USAAF Jet Black or the RAF's Smooth Night replaced the matter Night towards the end of the war, because the gloss reflected less light from the searchlight back to the ground viewers than the grainy matt paint.  A similar principle operates with stealth aircraft aircraft nowadays, where it is desirable to have as few angles as possible on an aircraft that will deflect radar back to the receiver.