Absolute frustration - rigging!

[Roland Pulfrew]

May I ask for some advice please?  Do any of you WW1 aircraft builders have any top tips on doing rigging?

 

I'm trying (and currently failing) to do some half realistic rigging on an 0/400.  I am attempting to use EZLine and superglue, but I end up gluing the rigging lines to the tweezers and not the right position on the airframe.  The headache I have is splitting!! 
 

Any top tips gratefully received!!

[Sabrejet]

Use Uschi van der Rosten + Bob's Buckles.

 

Then the key is to put the line through the ferrule (tube), through the loop on the aircraft, back through the ferrule and then pull it hard and at a slight angle! This is the key. That way, the ferrule is forced right down by the ring/aircraft joint and your tweezers are maybe a couple of inches from where you'll be supergluing. Then dab a spot of glue on the ferrule and let capillary action do its thing. If you snip the 'tweezer' end of the line then you usually don't see the cut end as it will retract into the ferrule.

 

As a short cut, you can miss out the ferrule then do the same thing (make sure to stretch after you pass through the loop) and though you do get a visible cut end, you can tidy it up afterwards.

[Mark Harmsworth]

Drill two holes. Put drop of glue on one end of thread. Stick it in hole. When cured pull other end of thread through second hole with drop of glue on thread. Glue will be pulled through and into hole. Use something to hold thread taught. When cured cut off excess thread. 

 

Imagine hole no. 2 being in bottom wing of bi-plane.

 

Well that's one method.

Good luck and keep glue away from fingers and tweezers

Mark

[dov]

May I ask you to look on all my figging threads! And some of my examples. Use low cost materials.

I opposition to the answer you got, I do absolutly not recomend Uschi material,  since theycget such a heavy electric load which pulls on your nerves! Avoid them. Use monofills.

The web link from WW1 models is quite good too.

My way: Save money and nerves!

Stay away from expensive aftermarket products, for bigger models with 120 eyelets!

Happy modelling 

[Sabrejet]

51 minutes ago, dov said:

I opposition to the answer you got, I do absolutly not recomend Uschi material,  since theycget such a heavy electric load which pulls on your nerves! Avoid them. Use monofills.

 

 

Just me ten pen'orth: I've used Uschi material a lot and have never had any issues. Take as you find, but it's the best there is from my experience (but used with Bob's Buckles).

[Roland Pulfrew]

Thanks for all the comments so far.  I perhaps should have said, that this is 1/72 scale.

[Sabrejet]

7 minutes ago, Roland Pulfrew said:

Thanks for all the comments so far.  I perhaps should have said, that this is 1/72 scale.

I did guess but couldn't remember if the WNW kit had been released.

[Tim R-T-C]

I have used 0.07mm metal wire previously on 1/144 rigging. It comes on a spool but opens out straight so you can cut lengths and place with tweezers, very different to using elastic thread.

 

It is shiny, making it far more visible and easier to handle as well as more visible on the finished model (good for me for table displays at model shows) but not necessarily authentic.

[Mark Harmsworth]

1 hour ago, Roland Pulfrew said:

 I perhaps should have said, that this is 1/72 scale.

You could have a try with invisible mending thread. I think it is nylon and it's not really invisible but that's what it's called. Mine is smoke coloured.

 

Like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Supercrafts-Merlin-Invisible-Sewing-Thread/dp/B07BK8PJ5M/ref=sr_1_8?crid=1SDNR0U3MCOG4&keywords=invisible+mending+thread&qid=1676750595&sprefix=%2Caps%2C298&sr=8-8

 

This is my attempt at the aerials on a 1:48 Avro Anson before cutting the ends off:

 

 

and for the tail:

 

 

[Ray S]

Hello @Roland Pulfrew. The way I do it on 1/72 kits is to use something like InfiniModels fine rigging line or AmmoMig's fine rigging thread. I don't (now) drill holes, but the way I attach it is like this:

1. Measure and cut a slightly under-length piece of rigging thread
2. Add a dot of CA to the start point on the wing/fuselage/tail as required (I use some fishing line as the applicator - being slightly curved it gives better access if held correctly)
3. Dip the thread into CA Accelerator
4. Place the wet end of the line onto the dot of CA and hold for a couple of seconds
5. Add a dot of CA to the end position on the other wing/fuselage/tail etc
6. Dip the loose end of the thread into Accelerator
7. Add that end to the second CA dot and hold for a couple of seconds. 
8. Job done
9. Repeat for other wires!

I hope that helps, it certainly did for this 1/72 kit:

 

 

The main reason I have shied away from drilling is that I could never fill the holes properly, and was always worried about collapsing the kit at the final(ish) hurdle, and this way works well for me.

 

Ray

[stevehed]

Does the CA stick to paint?

[Ray S]

55 minutes ago, stevehed said:

Does the CA stick to paint?

 

I have had no problems Steve with that, and it works a treat for me.

 

Ray

[Paul Thompson]

3 minutes ago, Ray S said:

 

I have had no problems Steve with that, and it works a treat for me.

 

Ray

It all depends on how much tension you use. With elastic thread, usually fine. And if not, easy to fix.

 

I'd try to avoid anything like a tube or a loop on an 0/400 anyway, in any scale, simply because there weren't any on the real thing, just bespoke attachment fittings for the RAFwires, certainly almost impssoble to see in 1/72nd. (And yes, I get to repeat once more, no turnbuckles, first time this year!)

 

 

Paul.

[Black Knight]

1 minute ago, Paul Thompson said:

 . . . (And yes, I get to repeat once more, no turnbuckles, first time this year!)

Nope, its the 2nd time  

 

 

[Patrik]

4 hours ago, Roland Pulfrew said:

Thanks for all the comments so far.  I perhaps should have said, that this is 1/72 scale.

In worst case, you may try my rather heretic approach. 23 years of happy 1/72 biplane modelling, and - despite all well-meant advices of fellow Britmodellers, Modelforumers, and all other -ers - still cheerfully ignoring all temptation to add the rigging.

 

Edited February 18 by Patrik

[Black Knight]

I use monofilament fishing line, superglue; Rocket Rapid and a glue-loop to apply

I drill holes through the wing or fuselage; glue one end of the line then pull through the hole and pull tight, apply a drop of superglue Rapid using a glue-loop and within seconds the line is glued and the hole filled. I leave off to do another, . . .  and another. By the time I've done the last line all the first are cured and I trim the excess off with a razor blade

Sometimes a small dot of fillers is used to finish off the hole tidily 

Works for me

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Black Knight]

6 hours ago, Roland Pulfrew said:

I'm trying (and currently failing) to do some half realistic rigging on an 0/400.  I am attempting to use EZLine and superglue, but I end up gluing the rigging lines to the tweezers and not the right position on the airframe.  The headache I have is splitting!! 

Might be a bit late but afair the Airfix O/400 wings are in top & bottom halves with rigging holes already in the bottom of the top wing and upper of the bottom wing

[Old Man]

4 hours ago, Roland Pulfrew said:

Thanks for all the comments so far.  I perhaps should have said, that this is 1/72 scale.

 

 

I have done a lot of 1/72 rigging.

 

I use EZ-Line and CA accelerator and CA gel.

 

Put a tiny dab of the gel where the end of the line should go.

 

Wet the end of the line with CA accelerator. Don't bother with the atomizer. Unscrew it and use the end of its intake tube for an applicator, just touch it to the line. Leave the wet bit, about a quarter inch or so of it, anyway, protruding from the tweezers pinch.

 

Touch it to the bit of CA gel, hold it there for a slow ten count, as near to motionless as you can manage.

 

Make sure when removing the tweezers you don't snag things.

 

If it doesn't take (but usually it will), just try again. Keep a sharp blade handy to cut off failed glue.

 

It's a good idea to at least start with a little hole into the plastic.

 

The first end is the easiest one.

 

Break a leg!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18 by Old Man

[Putty Animal]

If I can offer an alternative, I would suggest straight lengths of wire, rather than elastics and thread.

 

Keep an eye out for the pre-straightened nickel silver wire available from the UK company, Albion Alloys.  I use them a lot and find them easy to cut to length and position with PVA or UV setting glue. That way you get much more time to position the wire than CA, which is always a race against time. The big advantage of the straight wire is that there is no tension pulling on it, so way less glue is needed. If you cut one piece to the correct length, you can use it as a yardstick or template to create more for the next wing too. Which speeds the whole process up immensely.

 

The 0.2mm Albion wire would be good for the HP O/400.  When test-fitting the lengths, try putting a dab of water at the base of each strut. Which allows capillary action to temporarily hold the wire in place while you check the fit. It prevents you from dropping them all the time! 

 

Putting each piece of wire in place is like leaning a broom against a wall. Here's a pic of my Fe2b in 1/144 scale. I used .05mm wire for this one but the principle is the same. There's absolutely no way I could have done it with stretchy thread! 

 

 

Edited February 19 by Putty Animal

[Black Knight]

On one type or series of aircraft I can think of wire rod beats my nylon line & holes; Single seat SPADs

The rigging wires have to cross exactly at the middle of the inner interplane struts

Its a real burgerbar and hit or miss if you/I can get it with the line & holes but with wire, or heat-stretched sprue ( aka HSS) its far easier to get it

 

[Old Man]

4 hours ago, Putty Animal said:

If I can offer an alternative, I would suggest straight lengths of wire, rather than elastics and thread.

 

Keep an eye out for the pre-straightened nickel silver wire available from the UK company, Albion Alloys.  I use them a lot and find them easy to cut to length and position with PVA or UV setting glue. That way you get much more time to position the wire than CA, which is always a race against time. The big advantage of the straight wire is that there is no tension pulling on it, so way less glue is needed. If you cut one piece to the correct length, you can use it as a yardstick or template to create more for the next wing too. Which speeds the whole process up immensely.

 

The 0.2mm Albion wire would be good for the HP O/400.  When test-fitting the lengths, try putting a dab of water at the base of each strut. Which allows capillary action to temporarily hold the wire in place while you check the fit. It prevents you from dropping them all the time! 

 

Putting each piece of wire in place is like leaning a broom against a wall. Here's a pic of my Fe2b in 1/144 scale. I used .05mm wire for this one but the principle is the same. There's absolutely no way I could have done it with stretchy thread! 

 

 

 

 

That stuff stays straight, Sir?

 

I do use some 3thou brass wire for short bits, like cabane stuff and incidence wires. It doesn't stay straight if the length is over an inch or so. It is a treat to just use white glue....

 

I have some heavier wire from them I intend to use on 'Golden Age' monoplane bracings: these were pretty substantial.

[DennisTheBear]

7 hours ago, Patrik said:

In worst case, you may try my rather heretic approach. 23 years of happy 1/72 biplane modelling, and - despite all well-meant advices of fellow Britmodellers, Modelforumers, and all other -ers - still cheerfully ignoring all temptation to add the rigging.

 

Ditto

 

DennisTheBear

[Putty Animal]

50 minutes ago, Old Man said:

That stuff stays straight, Sir?

I can give it a test. What sort of length and angles are you working with?

[Old Man]

18 minutes ago, Putty Animal said:

I can give it a test. What sort of length and angles are you working with?

 

I  mis-read, it seems. You are using 0.2mm, and I read it as 2 thousandths, which excited me awfully. It's about eight thousands, which in 1/72 scales to a bit over half an inch.

 

I have some 0.1mm Albion nickel silver wire, and appreciate being reminded of it. I am contemplating another Bristol Fighter (interwar, at Shanghai with No.2(AC) in 1927. I've had some joint issues made rigging as I described above a bit more tricky than I like anymore, and the Brisfit has an awful lot of wiring. But this nickel silver stuff just might turn the trick.

 

I'll have to refrain from dropping the thing. One thing about the elastic lines is that they do lend some structural strength, and by varying lengths (and hence pull) some small adjustments in alignment can be made.

 

Thanks for putting me on a good track!

[Roland Pulfrew]

Thank you all for the top tips so far. 
 

12 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

I did guess but couldn't remember if the WNW kit had been released.

 

I’m doing the old Airfix kit. Lots of patience (aaagh), filling and sanding required.

 

12 hours ago, Tim R-T-C said:

I have used 0.07mm metal wire previously on 1/144 rigging. It comes on a spool but opens out straight so you can cut lengths and place with tweezers, very different to using elastic thread.

Any particular brand?  This might be a viable option (although 1/144 is waaaaay too small for my eyes).

 

10 hours ago, Ray S said:

Hello @Roland Pulfrew. The way I do it on 1/72 kits is to use something like InfiniModels fine rigging line or AmmoMig's fine rigging thread. I don't (now) drill holes, but the way I attach it is like this:

1. Measure and cut a slightly under-length piece of rigging thread
2. Add a dot of CA to the start point on the wing/fuselage/tail as required (I use some fishing line as the applicator - being slightly curved it gives better access if held correctly)
3. Dip the thread into CA Accelerator
4. Place the wet end of the line onto the dot of CA and hold for a couple of seconds
5. Add a dot of CA to the end position on the other wing/fuselage/tail etc
6. Dip the loose end of the thread into Accelerator
7. Add that end to the second CA dot and hold for a couple of seconds. 
8. Job done
9. Repeat for other wires!

This might be the solution. Although I have already attached one end, using the holes Airfix provide. My error was not measuring the lengths of EZLine, so no correct length to dip the unattached end into the accelerator.

 

8 hours ago, Patrik said:

In worst case, you may try my rather heretic approach. 23 years of happy 1/72 biplane modelling, and - despite all well-meant advices of fellow Britmodellers, Modelforumers, and all other -ers - still cheerfully ignoring all temptation to add the rigging.

 

 

A brilliant solution!

 

10 hours ago, stevehed said:

Does the CA stick to paint?

It has so far Steve

 

8 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I use monofilament fishing line, superglue; Rocket Rapid and a glue-loop to apply

I drill holes through the wing or fuselage; glue one end of the line then pull through the hole and pull tight, apply a drop of superglue Rapid using a glue-loop and within seconds the line is glued and the hole filled. I leave off to do another, . . .  and another. By the time I've done the last line all the first are cured and I trim the excess off with a razor blade

Sometimes a small dot of fillers is used to finish off the hole tidily 

Works for me

 

 

I’m definitely not going to have the patience to match the rigging on your HP!!  

 

8 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Might be a bit late but afair the Airfix O/400 wings are in top & bottom halves with rigging holes already in the bottom of the top wing and upper of the bottom wing

You are quite correct, and I’m wishing I’d just followed the Airfix instructions on rigging, even if it does look a little simplistic.

 

6 hours ago, Putty Animal said:

If I can offer an alternative, I would suggest straight lengths of wire, rather than elastics and thread.

 

Keep an eye out for the pre-straightened nickel silver wire available from the UK company, Albion Alloys.  I use them a lot and find them easy to cut to length and position with PVA or UV setting glue. That way you get much more time to position the wire than CA, which is always a race against time. The big advantage of the straight wire is that there is no tension pulling on it, so way less glue is needed. If you cut one piece to the correct length, you can use it as a yardstick or template to create more for the next wing too. Which speeds the whole process up immensely.

 

The 0.2mm Albion wire would be good for the HP O/400.  When test-fitting the lengths, try putting a dab of water at the base of each strut. Which allows capillary action to temporarily hold the wire in place while you check the fit. It prevents you from dropping them all the time! 

 

Putting each piece of wire in place is like leaning a broom against a wall.

 

 

I’ve used AA products before (mainly their brass tubing) so this might be an option - although I did envisage me just ending up with lengths of rod that were just too short for anything!!