The Valley Of The Vixens, where Avons love to tread.

[The Spadgent]

Looking fantastic Bill, with decals on especially so. I have only used BMF for panels thus far. Not brave enough to embellish an entire air frame. But as we all know, you “Tweak the nose of terror and laugh in the face of the horrible spindly killer fish”  keep on doing your stuff. It’s great. 🙌❤️

 

 Johnny

[Brandy]

9 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Tweak the nose of terror and laugh

Ah, so just like Hamlet then!

 

Ian

[perdu]

 

 

Really not pleased with this but, 'tis what it I think I have finished tweaking noses on the Lightning.

 

Yesterday I made a hugely massive big mistake, I took the Lightning to 'club' for judgement day but by a massive oversight forgot to arm it.

 

To paraphrase Capitano Bertorelli, "Whada Mistaka To Makea"!

 

(G and M, please note this cod Italiano is a copy of a common phrase in 'Ello 'Ello! a TV comedy show.)

 

Now returned home, tail firmly hidden between one's legs I added the missing missiles

 

These after-market devices even came with a decal sheet for detailing the detailing, wow...

 

After-market stuff I used included a Pavla cockpit interior, resin wheels and nose wheel undercarriage.

 

A master pitothead seems de rigeur of course and decals from the Xtradecals roundels sheet which positively hated being added over Bare Metal foil.

 

The BMF was a mistake too, won't be doing an airframe again any time soon.

 

Anyway, here's a final few shots for your consideration.

 

 

Yes them is orrible gaps under the pylons, must try to sort them out one day.  

 

 

OK OK already, yes I will fix those pylons

 

 

Next a Sea Vixen and a naval helicopter.

[Zephyr91]

21 minutes ago, perdu said:

yes I will fix those pylons

If it was me, I'd just leave the o/w tanks and pylons off.  I always think they spoil the look anyway. 

 

Twas just a thought.

 

I love the metal effect.  You might have hated it but I think it was worth the effort.

 

cheers

 

Rob

[hendie]

You said "pylons" and I kept peering under the wings, wondering what you were blethering on about.

 

Eventually I said "Oh!"

 

She still looks damned fine though.

 

 

 

[The Spadgent]

5 hours ago, hendie said:

You said "pylons" and I kept peering under the wings, wondering what you were blethering on about.

 

Eventually I said "Oh!"

I did exactly the same thing. Then looked up. 😂

if they’re not glued on mayhap you could cut down the pegs? Either way she’s a fine model. You shouldn’t be so hard on the BMF I think it looks great. 👏🤩👏

 

 Jont

[Brandy]

I agree with t'others, she's a fine looker. But then again, isn't every Lightning?

 

Ian

[perdu]

17 hours ago, Zephyr91 said:

If it was me, I'd just leave the o/w tanks and pylons off.  I always think they spoil the look anyway. 

 

Twas just a thought.

 

I love the metal effect.  You might have hated it but I think it was worth the effort.

 

cheers

 

Rob

In full and entire agreement Rob, so they're off and I have some small remedial stuff to learn on BMF...

[giemme]

4 hours ago, perdu said:

so they're off

I think you did the right thing. And she looks 100% a Lightning, so....   (makes me want o build another!)

 

Ciao

[Terry1954]

Lovely looking Leuchars Lightning lad .......... ! (I note also that they often detached to Luqua but I couldn't find a way to get that sixth L in)

 

She looks the biz Bill.

 

Terry

[Fritag]

Something properly unnatural looking about sticking fuel tanks over the wings.

 

Mind you, if that’s where most people stuck em most of the time I s’pect I’d be used to it….

 

Either which way a nice Lightning, Bill.

 

I’ve never built one.  One day maybe.  A sort of personal might’ve been.

 

 

 

 

[Zephyr91]

3 hours ago, Fritag said:

Something properly unnatural looking about sticking fuel tanks over the wings.

But presumably it's ok to fly Jaguars with overwing Sidewinders or Magic?  

 

Apologies.  Just being mischievous  ......

 

Rob

[Fritag]

12 hours ago, Zephyr91 said:

But presumably it's ok to fly Jaguars with overwing Sidewinders or Magic?  

 

 

Well now. The RAF ‘discovered’ it might want to use the overwing capability just after I left the Jag to go on exchange - so I only ever carried sidewinders underneath, as God intended   I’d have to conceded the efficacy of sticking em on top - but I’m still not persuaded by the aesthetics….  

[Zephyr91]

3 hours ago, Fritag said:

I’d have to conceded the efficacy of sticking em on top - but I’m still not persuaded by the aesthetics

Agreed entirely.  It was indeed a neat way of adding capability without much of the  "penalty" usually associated with new stores fits. 

 

Neat, that is, apart from the I-beam (that's what one of my Structures mates called it) used to mount the launch rail.  Seeing as it was an emergency upgrade for the Gulf the aesthetics really were "out of the window".  I was involved in the Flutter clearance so had a miniscule part in it all.

 

cheers

 

Rob

[Graham Boak]

The excess drag of it in that position was pretty penalising, but if you really want to use the outer pylons for ECM and other such frills...  I presume a major redesign of the wingtip was considered and rejected, but I was out of the Jaguar loop by then.   I don't know about the RAF use of it, but I'm sure it was offered on the Jaguar International before the Gulf War.   I suspect it was never particularly aesthetic.

[Fritag]

4 hours ago, Zephyr91 said:

I was involved in the Flutter clearance

 

See now, not only is that really rather impressive, Rob - but when you put it like that it really sounds rather nice as well. 

 

As I've said already on some thread somewhere on BM, I was allowed an AIM 9G to fling at a Jindivick towing a flare back in the day.

 

The RAF found a spare one laying about, shortly after I'd finished my Jag QWI course at the tender age of 24 and thought it'd be a wheeze to give it to me for being a good boy.

 

It was quite a palaver, involving decamping to RAF Valley for a couple of days and flying practice sorties before being allowed to let it go for real.

 

There was another chap from my QWI course along as well; and while he hadn't been quite a good enough boy to get to the firing slot, he did do all the practice sorties, and his prize was to loiter along on the firing sortie, so that if my aircraft or AIM 9 went u/s he would get to fire an AIM 9 instead.

 

Must've been a bit frustrating for him really.  I don't recall having any sympathy tho'...  Probably gloated a bit tbh.

 

I remember being so keyed up about the whole business that my heart was pounding and I'm not sure I really enjoyed it.  Too busy trying to be in the right bit of sky at the right time at the right distance and angle off from the Jindivick and not forgetting to make everything 'live'.

 

I know that I let the bl**dy thing go almost as soon as I got a steady tone from the seeker head.  It left a nice little trail of smoke as it disappeared off never to be seen again.

 

The armourers gave me the connecter cable that shears off as the missile fires as a memento.  Nice of em.

 

 

Sorry for the drift, Bill - and any repetition....

 

Edited June 21 by Fritag

[Terry1954]

1 hour ago, Fritag said:

 It left a nice little trail of smoke as it disappeared off never to be seen again.

 

............. what about the bit where ......... "and the Jindivik lived happily ever after ............. or at least until the next eager fighter jock got a shot at it's flare" 🤭

 

Terry

[Brandy]

You noticed how he subtly missed out the bit stating that he'd missed!

I assume, being a fighter jock, that there is no way our Steve would have omitted to mention it if he'd hit it!

 

Ian

[perdu]

10 minutes ago, Brandy said:

You noticed how he subtly missed out the bit stating that he'd missed!

I assume, being a fighter jock, that there is no way our Steve would have omitted to mention it if he'd hit it!

 

Ian

Well he did hold on LTF at the wrong time in the beast's service life, at the same time Debs was lapping it up

[Fritag]

25 minutes ago, Brandy said:

You noticed how he subtly missed out the bit stating that he'd missed!

I assume, being a fighter jock, that there is no way our Steve would have omitted to mention it if he'd hit it!

 

Fire and forget them things aren’t they?  Well I did and I have 

 

I’ve always assumed it hit the flare. It must have done mustn’t it? Now you’ve got me worried…. Mind you, I’d have been in dead shtuck if it’d hit the Jindivick!    

 

21 minutes ago, perdu said:

Well he did hold on LTF at the wrong time in the beast's service life, at the same time Debs was lapping it up

 

Hold? Hold, Bill!

 

Number 63 LTF course, that was me.  Or, rather 21 year old me and a Squadron Leader returning to the Lightning.

 

Did the ground school and (what passed as) the simulator phases.  But as we know, can’t match Deb’s claim of flying the darned thing….

 

Not my fault the T-birds got grounded was it?

 

[Zephyr91]

2 hours ago, Fritag said:

you put it like that it really sounds rather nice as well

Sorry Bill, I will desist but just have to add this note.    I'm not showing off here, but taking a rare opportunity to describe some of the lesser known, near invisible work by engineers within a huge "system" of aircraft design and development activity.      Flutter is one of those things that doesn't sound bad, but I have to say that it is one of the most dangerous phenomena known to aviation.  If it is not done right the aircraft will, most probably, be destroyed.  It ranks alongside the Flight Mechanics and Handling when there is initial flight testing and flight envelope expansion and confirmation of a brand new combat aircraft (and civil).    Also, even on an established design, by adding a new store or combination of stores, we had to do a lot of calculations to show that we weren't upsetting the balance of the infernal triangle of  Unsteady aerodynamics, Mass/Inertia distribution, and Structural elastic effects.  Although it had been encountered at the dawn of aviation, some fantastic initial documentation and theorising about the phenomenon started because of non-destructive or survivable occurrences on the  HP 0/400 of WWI vintage (I think).   In modern times the addition of full-time digital FCSs just added a whole new dimension  of complexity.  It made my head hurt at times - glad I retired and don't have to think about it any more.....

 

Those that haven't gone to sleep yet should leave as quietly as possible so as not to disturb the others....

 

cheers

 

Rob

[Graham Boak]

The O/400 tail had a history of tail vibration, fixed by Lanchester and described later as one of first examples of aeroelastic coupling (where the changes in aircraft shape due to aerodynamic forces led to changes in the aerodynamic forces...and so on).  Flutter is this in extreme dynamic form where the changes occur so rapidly that a resonance occurs and the structure fails dramatically.  The Gloster Gamecock and Grebe fighters were troubled by flutter, but the full explanation came when Duncan and Collar from the RAE undertook the study into destruction of the two Parnell Pipits in 1928 and 1929, publishing their analysis in 1931. 

 

Well, that's one performance specialist's view of the history ...  

[perdu]

From my point of view all this 'drift' is priceless Rob, so please don't desist from your input.

 

And Steve, please accept my apologies for misremembering your career. I did remember you had the scourge of desperate unserviceability to frustrate your course, and of Debs being somewhat less than conciliatory.

 

[KingTiger435]

Dang, I go on holiday and miss out on all this beautiful content!

Lightning looks pretty snazzy, nice one perdu 

[Fritag]

12 hours ago, Zephyr91 said:

It made my head hurt at times - glad I retired and don't have to think about it any more.....

 

It's a bloomin good job you don't have to understand how stuff works to use it.

 

He says typing at the mysterious object that is an iPad.

 

I had to have maths coaching from my girlfriend using 'O' level key-facts cards before I could even manage the basic ballistics on the QWI course.

 

It's good to know that folks with brains have been at work before letting the muppets loose tho'.  

 

11 hours ago, perdu said:

apologies for misremembering your career

 

  Shocking.  I blame myself for being inadequately repetitive when boasting over a coffee and/or beer...   Altho' in fairness, t'was a minor chapter of unrequited love in a tolerably brief and undistinguished career and it barely has traction on even my memory.

 

I do notice that you never forget Debs' gloating tho'... 

 

Edited June 22 by Fritag