The Valley Of The Vixens, where Avons love to tread.

[perdu]

Whilst it might appear that I've become bogged down with trainers and Hawkers I find myself drawn back to a couple of Sixties machines of raw Avon power.

 

For all the interest youthful Perdu took in Spitfires, Saviours of the Galaxy I've not been too attracted to Supermarine's Jet Power types so the Swift and the Scimitar are far below my radar horizon, so far they don't even have faint echoes.

 

But I do love the awe-inspiring roar of the mighty Avon so this little pocket of my endeavours is providing space for fantasy and fiction.

 

A while back, quite a while back I did build this

 

But to be honest I didn't want to.

 

No, no I don't mean I didn't want a Vixen, I didn't want an F.A.W.2.

 

I wanted a F.A.W.1, sporting Firestreaks.

 

Lovely jubbly.

 

Anyway whilst building the F.A.W.2 I got hold of a second Frog kit in its guise as an Eastern Express moulding.

 

Here's the very box of it.

 

Now I know there are several, er shall we say deficiencies with the Frog version but it does not matter.

 

This is what I have in my hands, needs building to begin a stash clearing exercise and it looks vaguely possible to amend the F.A.W.2  conversions given a stonking great razor saw and the faithful SIHRSC.

And plasticard and Milliput.

 

And reference to Tony's @The Baronmegabuild sketches and inspired leadership.

 

Really can't go wrong can we?

 

So a beginning, not quite a start.

Top of the centre section:

 

Those boom mounted tanks have to go

 

Later.

What's the inside like?

Crivens, they're deep huh?

 

Where to begin?

 

 

Try to trap the shape. Those valleys are full of directional changes doh!

 

Brace thyself lass.

 

 

Another thing to consider, the kit canopy is also less  than optimal.

 

Unless there should be a stonking gurt air bubble in the clear bit.

 

Yukkkky, see boys it isn't only Airfix that can 'compromise' clear parts.

 

Now I have broken the ice consider this:

 

 

 

 

Two becomes one 🎵 🎶

 

Also.

 

Two Avons, check?

 

Frog based kit, check?

 

Extra unexpected difficulty? 

Check

 

Pavla cockpit and a thing to shove down a hole to give depth.

 

Well we'll see.

 

Ciao baby.

[Brandy]

Oooh, nice!

You're in danger of turning into CC with all these builds on the go, but I'll definitely be following this one!

 

Ian

[perdu]

7 minutes ago, Brandy said:

Oooh, nice!

You're in danger of turning into CC with all these builds on the go, but I'll definitely be following this one!

 

Ian

Nah no chance Ian, my French is atrocious.

 

And I cant handle his tremendous array of beers.

 

 

[giemme]

I'm gonna need lots of 🍿  and 🍺 here.

 

Ok, ready

 

Ciao 

[Hamden]

 

Room for one more?  I'll sit quietly and watch from the side line

Two great subjects here Bill looking forward to watching you work your usual magic please carry on

 

      Stay safe           Roger

[AdrianMF]

Oh, go on then. Rude not to...

Regards,

Adrian

[CedB]

…and me! About time I got in at the start.

 

Three pictures of the drawing? Is one of these not like the other?

[Fritag]

Continuing the theme of thematic builds, Bill.  Great title, great aircraft, great engine.  What’s not to like! I’m in.

 

Must’ve been mighty fine to have a couple of Avons under the left mitt.  Somehow a couple of Adours just doesn’t quite compare does it.

 

That said; a single GE F110-GE-100 or Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220 might do.  S’pecially in a rather lighter machine.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Fritag

[KingTiger435]

I hope the lightning will be making some more appearances throughout the build

My interest is piqued, following.

[hendie]

Butchery of the highest order awaits. I have the popcorn and a medic on standby

Count me in for this, though the filing system is starting to have difficulty keeping track of all your current builds.

 

Do you plan to remove the wing carbuncles entirely thus creating a 3 dimensional jigsaw? or just remove their frontal lobes and gently caress the remaining carbuncles into the more pleasing FAW1 form?

[giemme]

6 hours ago, CedB said:

Three pictures of the drawing? Is one of these not like the other?

Look at the front side of the booms, Ced: first pic shows the long version, second it's a superimposition of the short one, third is the short one alone

 

Ciao 

[perdu]

2 hours ago, hendie said:

Butchery of the highest order awaits. I have the popcorn and a medic on standby

Count me in for this, though the filing system is starting to have difficulty keeping track of all your current builds.

 

Do you plan to remove the wing carbuncles entirely thus creating a 3 dimensional jigsaw? or just remove their frontal lobes and gently caress the remaining carbuncles into the more pleasing FAW1 form?

Quite likely to remove all and every portion Alan, those carbuncles are a parasitic fit over the slimmer main booms.

 

If you look at this picture I took at Bruntingthorpe one very noisy day you can see that they were bunged up on top, undoubtedly in a most aerodynamic manner with a sealant along the edges.

 

 

The art will be to find the proper shape where the plastic won't be then.

 

Ced Giorgio has explained it well enough that I am sure I won't have to.   

[CedB]

Got it! Thanks both.

[Galligraphics]

A Sea Vixen AND a Frightning…? How can anyone resist following this?

[Dave Wilko]

One mentioned this in another (Revell)Sea Vixen thread the other day.

 

A chap over on the UAMF built a most fetching 'Vixen D.3 from the old Frog kit in it's Revell re-release guise.

If one reads through the thread,the fellow mentions the Frog kit's main points of inaccuracy,notably the overly wide

fuselage and what he deems to be done to correct that.

More importantly,he highlights what can be done to make the basic Frog kit look more like a Sea Vixen without major surgery.

 

https://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22159&p=495010&hilit=foxy#p495010

 

Enjoy.

 

David.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Dave Wilko

[perdu]

Thanks David, I'll pop in there to scope it out but I think I might do just enough for this pair.

[perdu]

Dammit Dave, you knew I was going to have to get involved once you sent me there didn't you.

 

Okeydoke I'm hooked.

 

I have ordered a new Falcon canopy set for Royal Navy aircraft to go with the remnants of the other two sets I have.

 

Also to get the innards close to the 'right' cockpit interior I have sent for the Airwaves interior set.

 

I've decided not, yes not, to fold the wings on this on so that decided me not to buy the Airwaves wingfold etch set.

 

This is not going to be anything like Tony''s wonderful Vixen, don't get your hopes too high please.

 

The Frogegawanova Lightning F6 may end up as a green one from RAF Germany rather than as a silver Wattisham beastie, decisions not yet made.

 

Ciao.

[perdu]

So.

 

I have begun, first assemble artifacts to make the changes.

From the left: a kit in a box, a nice sturdy box too, below a set of scale drawings from the fabulous interweb*

Next a nice wide razor saw to begin the excavations sitting next to SIHRSC, the uberfile and two engineer's files, very useful for scraping errant paint splodges from surfaces which accidentally acquire them.

And yes, measuring things and cutting them with straight lines, very useful if trying to work tidy, see boyo.

 

Also with a view towards accuracy, and yes tidiness, a pair of steel rules of a more bigness.

12 inch engineers and probably about to be the most useful since I bought it an Expo 1/72 scale rule in inches/feet and millimotors/metres.

Yes that nice box again, Eastern Express own product which so far I like.

Inside said box the Frog/Hasegawa made moulds produced this set of mouldings, I like the wheel well details moulded in.

I wonder if I should try to save the roof image when I hack them open?

This panel of runners is the first one I will be working on, handy having it on top like this, bet I put it in this way the other day.

Handy having a short term memory issue probably.  

As you can clearly see the drawings are roughly 35.23% too small and it is in the plan for me to enlarge them later so I can use them face to drawing for the build.

Short term answer, scan the fuselage pieces to use as build sketches, at least they are good to go, dimensionally.

 

The writer of the referenced build on the Unofficial Airfix Modellers forum, our own Miggers I believe has written a short piece on the dimensional quandary Frog found themselves in and I append it (apologetically) here for transcription.

 

Miggers old mate I hope this gets your blessing, if not a sharp message by way of communication channels will result in its swift removal.

 

Miggers writes:

The main modifications were around the nose,cockpit and pinion tank noses.

Dependant on what scale you fancy,you have a few options.

However, there are only two pretty accurate, mainstream I.M kits to be had(there is another, more anon of that.),those being

the Airfix in 1/48 and this, the(originally) Frog in 1/72.

The main reason for this is very simple, there are two quoted sets of dimensions out there for the aircraft, one being the

totally spurious often quoted 55' 7" wingspan and the totally accurate 53' 6 1/2" wingspan from the DeH drawings.

Working from plans drawn to 55' 7" will give you a model that is actually 3% too big all round.

Only the Airfix 1/48(come on lads, do the decent thing and scale her down to 1/72)and the old(1976)Frog for 1/72

are actually done to the correct 53' 6 1/2" wingspan.

Although bang on for dimensions, one main issue is that Frog made the fuselage too wide wingfold to wing fold(about 1.5mm)
and shortened the outer folding panels to get the correct span.

This also affected the positions of the weapon/tanks pylons ,if you fit missiles(Red Tops)onto station two and the tanks onto

station three(the correct "fit for Sea V's),they foul each other due to the too short outer folding panels, plus it also throws

the tailplane/elevator span out by 1.5mm.

This is the hardest thing to correct, you'd have to split the fuselage and radome longitudinally, remove the offending 1.5mm,add

that to the outer folding panels and reduce the elevator span accordingly too otherwise it won't fit between the booms, then move

station three pylons outboard by 1.5mm to get the correct weapon/tank clearances.

The others are around the cockpit area, namely the hot air/demistor ducting(the bit the windscreen/hood sits on)and the

pair of Microcell FFAR fairings(fitted to the FAW.1)either side of the nosewheel bay.

Frog made the ducting too deep, slightly too long and the hot air feed from the port engine too short and the rear ends of the

FFAR fairings too deep making the fuselage look short and tubby.

Reduce the height of the ducting from underneath and reshape it plus sand back the rear area of the FFAR fairings.

Another dodge is to add a 2mm spacer 'twixt radome and fuselage(although this takes the length over size),it does help to

"stretch" out the fuselage look along with the other cockpit area modifications outlined above.

Also sand the fuselage ahead of the cockpit slightly flatter(the fuse. is actually an ovoid "box" at this point)it also helps

to improve the look.

 

So from his very extensive notes I have begun making changes

 

The overhanging, very unwanted on this voyage noses of the slipper tanks.

 

Gone, just like that and using Miggers helpful description of the road ahead a line has been drawn, all along the outside of the lower fuselage and my next move with this will be to whip it downstairs to the rather more warm and welcoming garage** and attack the centre section with 1.5mm of hacksaw blade, front to back.

 

 

 

 

*the interweb, I know that such drawings gleaned for that source can be wildly speculative but in the absence of factory spec. drawings these will have to do for a start.

 

**rather more welcoming and yes warm garage rests on the fact that I found some brushy-type draught excluding self adhesive stuff which actually keeps the cold of 'out there' out, instead of letting it in to chill my bones.

This might be the best self preservation act of the twenty-first century coming out of Streetly.

 

In other builds, the Harrier and Kestrel are undergoing gloss varnish treatment, downstairs, yes there.

The JP is hardening of its surface under a coat of Tamiya TS-79 Semi Gloss, the gnat is silver awaiting a decision on paint or strip dayglo decal?

The Hind is under repair and the two Hunters await a surface treatment, namely application of Light Aircraft Grey which will wait until the marathon Grey-fest on the JP and them.

 

The Demon can wait another year when it may appear as a Turret Demon...

 

No work has been begun on the Vampire yet, soon baby, soon!

[giemme]

11 minutes ago, perdu said:

I have begun

Yes you have

 

 

Ciao

[Ngantek]

Yikes! Good luck to you! I will be watching with much interest. The Frog at least seems to have a better outline than some later toolings.

 

Andy

[Dave Wilko]

Glad that one finds the article useful Sir.

One found it by chance surfing the internet for Sea Vixens,saw the aircraft in question many years ago when it visited a Cosford airshow

one was attending with family.

It was still in it's drone colours at the time,but was a very powerful and impressive aeroplane.

A definite all-time favorite of one's,sad to see that it crash landed at Yeovilton a few years ago and has yet to be fully repaired back

to airworthiness.

[perdu]

Thanks Dave, very useful almost too useful ( ) but one does have to do what a bloke has to do

 

I took a scan from the Warpaint print as a datum and placed the 'begun but not completely cut apart' lower fuselage on the drawing

 

By now I had removed the vestigial tanks from the underside of the about to go missing boom extensions, I hadn't realised the moulding had two sized underneath boom bits, but they are history now and it couldnt matter less.

 

But I do clearly see what Miggers was referring to about the width.   

 

She definitely needs displacement therapy...

 

The necessary scale check against unknown drawings.

 

Good as gold

Other unheralded problems raise their little heads.

 

Ian don't expect tripoddery of viewing aspects such as these mate.

 

Please, but

 

 

Tip to tip = two feet short

 

 

Yikes, now what?

 

I know check info bank

 

Miggers

 

Wikid

another resource

 

How about the dH Museum website

 

 

?

 

[AdrianMF]

Go on, think of a number....

 

 

... then publish it and swear blind that it's the wingspan of a Vixen.

 

🙄

Adrian

[perdu]

Ah thanks for authoritarian thinking Adrian, obvs you know all about that then huh,  say no more squire.

 

I think I will attempt a slimming down but the whole idea might just be a worry too far, so who knows as yet?

 

Not I says the Bill.

 

The kit wing tip fits the drawing if I do slim the body section down, interesting huh?

[perdu]

Thinning beginning